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 Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?

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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:04 am

So, Dizzy only has one testicle at the moment, I was hopeful the other one would come down, but as time goes by it seems less and less likely. At first (when Dizzy was 9 weeks old), our vet was able to feel it, but now, its not palpable. This means a couple of things, firstly, it looks like he may not have a show career, which bums me out (although I might end up doing ukc altered). We went to visit his breeder yesterday, and she offered a replacement dog (of course allowing me to keep Dizzy), but there is no way I can have two in our apartment, but she stressed that at any point where I feel like I can have a second, that she would reserve one from a litter of my choice. That issue aside, I'm wondering if anyone else has dealt with this issue and what your experience is with it. I know its unlikely to descend after this point, so should I wait it out, or just go ahead and plan his neuter in the next couple months? I am debating about seeing a soft tissue surgeon at Cornell to get an ultrasound to see just where it is, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the expense or not. I spoke to someone in their reproductive small animal dept and she suggested just going straight to seeing a surgeon and said it was very unlikely it would come down on its own. Anyway, does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:17 am

It sounds to me like you went to a good breeder if she is offering you a replacement so soon.

IMO, most of the time if the ball isn't down yet, it's not coming down. These things happen and you still have options. I would suggest neutering him. It will take stress off of you because the last thing you edits your dog having his testicle wrapped around his kidney or another organ.

I love ukc altered. It's been a lot of fun.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:23 am

That makes sense, do you think its worth taking him to get an ultrasound to find out where it is before I plan his neuter? How old was Cato when you got him neutered, I'm also debating on age/timing for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:46 am

It won't drop, but I STRONGLY suggest waiting until about 9 months or so or as long as you can. If I had done that, my poor baby Nikolai might of only had to of gotten neutered once... Long story, but basically it was to small the first time, and they thought they cut the blood supply to the testicle and didn't causing me to notice that it was still functioning and he wasn't neutered and we had to do it again. Obviously it was the vet I chose (and I have since then switched, because the head vet was an idiot and wasn't supposed to be the one doing the surgery) but my point is that it is still inside him growing and unless they can find it with a sonogram (they have to be shaved) then I would suggest waiting until its bigger and then getting a sonogram done and his surgery if they have found it. If they don't know where it is, I do not recommend doing the exploratory surgery in case they can't find it at that point either! That just my experience and it doesn't hurt to wait. And definitely neuter him because it can cause serious problems down the line if you don't and its still inside of him.
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Keyda81
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:41 am

Lucian had one testicle that took quite some time to drop. It did finally drop before I got him neutered at 5 1/2 months old. I think they had told me to give it until about 6 months of age to drop, don't quote me on that though, lol. My memory just keeps getting worse.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:51 am

That's interesting. I had read 6 months was pretty much the line in the sand, but most that I have talked to said it is pretty much done-zo at this point lol. Was you vet able to palpate it before it dropped?
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arooroomom
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:03 pm

I would certainly wait until at least 6 months old before deciding one way or another. We have had dogs who didn't drop until 6 months old come to where I work.

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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:15 pm

Okay, another question, if it is taking so long to drop, does that mean that he is a genetic carrier for Cryptorchidism? Say it does drop, and I am able to show him, would it be irresponsible not to get him neutered? I'm not saying I plan on breeding by any means, and I can cross that bridge if I come to it, but I am just curious in terms of his genetics. I don't think there is an available test for that issue.
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arooroomom
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:26 pm

http://caninegeneticreserve.com/documents/articles/Cryptorchidism_in_dogs_-_how_why_and_what_to_do_about_it.pdf

I would ask your breeder if any other in the litter are having this issue. Personally what I would do is wait until 6 months, if it's still hasn't dropped- neuter him. If it does drop I would show him. You have a show quality dog (i'm assuming) and would get great experience in the ring compared to showing in altered. As to whether it would be ethical or not... That's going to depend on what one thinks Cryptorchidism is considered (in regards to age.) I think if it at 6 months both have descended without medical intervention it would be fine.

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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:34 pm

Yes, he is show quality. Smile He is the only one in the litter that has an issue, 3 normal males, one normal female and Dizzy. That's funny, I just found that article and was starting to read it. I saw on a different post, you recommend neutering at 12-16 months. If it doesn't descend, and I do need to neuter, does your recommendation change if one is retained? Is it safe to wait until that age or should I be concerned about the other health issues associated with it?
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:45 pm

If it isn't dropped at 6 months old I would neuter him within a month or 2. At that point you need to look at it from a medical perspective and it should come out. Since raising and descending is to keep the testes at a consistent temperature, retaining one will not allow regulation of the temperature correctly. Studies have shown there is a significant increase in cancer risk from the undescended testicle as well as it can twist around something internally. Since testosterone is produced mostly in the testes, that is another concern that I have and would want to neuter my male sooner rather than later if there was an issue with that.

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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:53 pm

Okay. Everyone, thank you so much for the advice! I'll hold off until the 6 month mark and go from there. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:08 pm

Link had this issue as well.

There are message techniques that help promote the undescended testicles to drop, assuming that it is near the base of the scrotum. There is a muscular ring that connects the scrotum to the body and this ring tightens over time. By gently messaging this ring you can promote the testicle to pass through before it tightens too much. This is best done with the pup on his back and legs spread.

It's no guarantee of course. Link's was yo-yoing up and down for a while and it never firmly established itself in the scrotum despite the messages. He was neutered just past 6 months and it was a hybrid neuter/spay which jacks up the cost and the complication risk, not to mention necessitates a second incision, prolonging the healing time. But they found it fine and nothing problematic happened and he healed fine.

I was told by many people that this is a fairly common issue in the breed for some reason. Our vet too urged the medical urgency of an undescended testicles due to , as Megan said, it possibly getting stuck near another organ in the body.

Good luck Jen. Your breeder sounds fantastic, at least Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:55 pm

The breeder said she couldn't feel it at all yesterday so its pretty high up and its just a waiting game at this point, it was palpable at one point. So, we'll see what happens, I have a feeling it won't come down, but I'm going to keep planning and taking him to handling classes. Worst case scenario is that I show him in ukc altered. I'll still learn and have fun, but I'm a competitive person so it won't feel like a "real" show. I'm not knocking altered class at all, just a silly psychological hang up I have.
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:04 pm

I didn;t mean you should outright neuter him now. I waited until Cato was almost 9 months when I neutered him, but I have seen too many horror stories with cryprotchids to suggest letting it go longer. Just my opinion.

Actually, it is absolutely a real show. You get the same prizes (some are actually better). You have competition and you are usually going up against AKC dogs who couldn't show or had to retire. Cato got a group 3 at the UKC premier this year and was up against 1 AKC GRCH and the rest were AKC CH and then my littler 18 month old Siberian. That being said, he was good enough to get the Group 3 Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:16 pm

I see, I am thinking as long as he's healthy I'll plan on getting him neutered around the 1 year mark, but of course it depends on how things develop. Smile Thanks. Yeah, I'm sure I will be singing a different tune when I get my butt kicked at a UKC show. Is there a good place to search for events, I looked at the ukc website, and there isn't much of anything within a 2-3 hour drive? Wink
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amora
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:56 pm

My parents had a dog that had one that didn't descend they ended up neutering him before he had any health problems from it. He was a small dog so wheb they did do it he did have more bruising than normal because they had to dig around in his abdomen area to get it
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:12 pm

Poor Dizzy. Sad I worried this would happen to Mishka. I poked around back there to see if he had both. One didn't descend for a while then one day poof, two balls. Lol. I hope it does descend just so you have more prospects for showing. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:18 pm

@simplify wrote:
Poor Dizzy. :(I worried this would happen to Mishka. I poked around back there to see if he had both. One didn't descend for a while then one day poof, two balls. Lol. I hope it does descend just so you have more prospects for showing. Smile

Really? About how old was he?
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simplify
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:46 pm

Probably close to the end of 4 months. I know a few weeks ago I checked and they were both there, so yeah. Lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:35 am

Well, sadly it's not going anywhere. I had an ultrasound done because I was tired of waiting to see if it would come down. It's taken up residence in his abdomen and the vet suggested I neuter him right at the 6 month mark. She's worried it could cause issues. I haven't scheduled his surgery, but will probably do it sometime next month. I'm a little bummed, but still have a great boy and still plan on doing handling classes and entering ukc altered shows when they come to my area. Thanks everybody for you guidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:27 am

Sorry to hear that Jen, I know you were really looking forwards to showing him Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:33 am

Well, it is what it is. As long as he's healthy otherwise I'll be happy. I'll just get another one down the road and learn with him. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:29 am

Thats great that they actually know where it is and the surgery will be as easy as it possibly can be in that situation. I definitely know what your going through and after the surgery is the worst part because they are in so much pain, and it takes so much longer to heal, but its good to get it out of the way early, so you don't have to worry about it anymore and the problems that it could cause.
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PostSubject: Re: Cryptorchidism - waiting for the ball to drop?   Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:33 am

I agree. I actually want them to do another ultrasound on the day of surgery so they don't have to hunt around for it. After reading what you went through, I want to make sure they get them both the first time! I'm more worried about keeping him at a low activity level. I will probably just have to crate the poor guy. How long is the recovery time?
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