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 Chronic mild diarreha

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:26 am

Thanks for the links. I have been to it to check out different brands.

I went to the local owned doggie near me and they are excellent about having sample bags or trial bags of dog food they carry. So I got a trial bag of Orijin which should be enough for about 3 days and 3 bags of Natural Balance - both mentioned by Heather and 'Koda' in this discussion.

Hopefully, today, Ginger still has normal bowel movements. (*fingers and paws crossed!)

Claudia

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:19 am

So I'm sad to report that this morning's bowel movement was all diarreha and it was more 'liquidy' that it has ever been Crying or Very sad

So what do I do now? Do I still keep her on salmon and eggs for a couple more days to see if it settles in? Or do I try either the Orijin or Natural Balance that I got samples of?

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:23 am

Has she had ANYTHING other than the salmon and eggs? Treats? Anything? I'm shocked that on a raw diet she is having issues and I'm concerned that she immediately produces something firm and then reverts back to liquid.

Has she been wormed or had a fecal exam done by the vet? What was the vet's response last time besides "Here's some crappy food that I think you should try." What grade is the salmon? Human grade? Is it preserved with anything or is it totally fresh?

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:02 am

She's had a fecal exam which nothing was found, and she was wormed...

The ONLY other thing she's had is her 'belly bone' which is made with yogurt and potato. She doesn't like 'raw hide' or any other type bones to help keep her teeth clean, and she's had the ogurt bone before her diarreha, but that is the ONLY other thing she's had besides salmon and eggs. The salmon was frozen, and steamed cooked, but I don't think it was preserved and I there was NO coloring added. It's frozen individual salmon portions that I got from Costco, and I'm pretty sure there's no preservatives added.

To get totally fresh, wild caught salmon with no coloring enhancers added, I'd probably have to go to Whole Foods, and I'm willing to do that to rule out preservatives.

I also have fresh ground beef that I froze that I could boil and try and mix it with steelcut oats which I read in an article on wellvet.com (here's an excerpt of that article):

.......Dogs will naturally develop diarrhea as a means to return themselves to health. Acute diarrhea is usually a healthy, healing process, not a disease. So, now that we know that this is not a problem, and in fact it is a healthy reaction to help them heal themselves, what should we do?

Most cases are easy to treat at home and don't require a visit to the veterinarian. After all, we don't run to the doctor every time we have a touch of diarrhea.

If your dog has diarrhea and seems to be reasonably strong, happy and active, simply follow these guidelines (and Ginger is acting normal):

•Cut the amount of food you are feeding in half
•Feed home cooked bland diets; they are vastly superior to the commercial bland diets promoted by many veterinarians
•Bland foods include:
◦1/3 meat
■Cooked meats that are very low in fat such as chicken (you can also boil hamburger, which will remove all the fat)
◦2/3 rice or other bland grain )
■Cottage Cheese
■White Rice (some will do better on cooked oatmeal)
◦Do not add any oils or fats to the diet at this point
•To the Bland Food, add:
•Yogurt 1-3 tablespoons per meal (yogurt is soothing but does not really provide any significant beneficial bacteria.... see our information about Lactobacillus sporogenes
or Healthy Flora)
•Provide a probiotic. We recommend Healthy Flora, click here to order
•Boiled Sweet Potato: 2-4 tablespoons
•Back to top, click here

•Consider giving Gastriplex if your dog has repeated bouts (click here to order Gastriplex)
Keep feeding this bland diet for at least a couple days after the diarrhea clears up.



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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:08 am

Some dogs DO have potato allergies. Heather's Koda is an example. It's rare, but it happens. I don't like adding all the probiotics, etc because I think you're throwing too many equations in the mix. Don't give her a belly bone today and see how she does.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:13 am

darn, she had a belly bone this morning - hubby gave it to her Crying or Very sad

the only other thing the vet said is to draw blood to test for irritated or inflammed bowels and to test if there's something going on with her pancreas...

should i just keep her on salmon and eggs then?
or should i try boiled ground beef or chicken breast and oatmeal?

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:17 am

Personally, I wouldn't introduce grains yet-- but that's up to you. If it were me, I would stick with the salmon, boiled ground beef is good too if you want to switch it up, but I would be wary of throwing too many things into the mix until you find something that she can be consistently successful on. You're trying to figure out what is triggering the diarrhea and that's hard to do with a lot of ingredients.

It's possible that she did okay with the pumpkin etc cause the pumpkin was balancing out the potato in the bones. The bones might be your trigger-- so just limit her-- it's not forever Smile. If you want to give her treats, keep some salmon thawed and use some bits of salmon as a treat.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:20 am

good points!

i'll keep her on salmon and eggs for today and tomorrow and see what happens...nothing else...and if she keeps sniffing around her bowl, i'll just give her a small snack of eggs and salmon...

i'll keep you posted!

thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:21 am

Good luck! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:50 pm

Sorry for jumping in so late in this thread but after reading through the entire thing I will offer my thoughts, take them or leave them.

Now I am going to assume that Ginger is a healthy weight since I've seen no indication otherwise. If that assumption is correct then I would fast her for 24 hours. No food, no treats for 24 hours but she can have all the water she wants. This is basically to clear out her system and give her a much needed break from producing 'cow patties' as my husband so eloquently calls them.

After her 24 hour fast I would introduce only ONE food item in smaller than usual portions. You pick what that one item is whether it's salmon or egg or chicken or whatever you think she will have the least likelihood of having a bad reaction to. No other foods mixed in and no treats, and again all the water she wants. I'd stick with the one food item for at least a couple days and see how she does. IF she shows improvement after those couple days then you might mix in a second ingredient. So if you feed salmon the first couple days exclusively and she showed improvement then maybe feed salmon and egg on the third day for example and keep her on the 2 ingredient meals exclusively for another couple days at least and see where she is at that point. If she continues to improve add something else in small portions to her diet and see what happens and so on. If at any time she reverts and gets worse then I'd take a step back.

That's just what I would do if it were one of mine and I do have two very sensitive dogs so I know what it's like living with near constant diarrhea, mucousy stool and stomach upset. We dealt with it for almost a full year before finding something that worked for our sensitive one. What eventually did the trick for my sensitive dog was a combination of Perfect Form (digestive aid supplement made by The Honest Kitchen which is all natural and safe for long term use) and The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw food.

Another thing to consider when allergies is of concern is that dogs can develop allergies to foods that they have previously done well on. That can happen from feeding a certain food all the time (too much) and the dog developing a sensitivity to it from the lack of rotation in the diet for example. There are a lot of dogs that are allergic to chicken. My sibe cannot have any rice in his diet or he gets the runs instantly. My sibe also cannot tolerate beef in kibble form but he handles it just fine in raw or home cooked form. For example, my sibe cannot eat any kibble with beef in it and he really does not handle THK's Verve formula (dehydrated beef) very well either but he can tolerate raw beef and also plain beef that I cook in a pan he can eat just fine. Another thing to be mindful of is that overfeeding can cause loose stool and diarrhea, that is especially true with rich, high quality foods such as Orijen, Evo, Wellness Core, Blue Wilderness, etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 pm

Ginger is at the top of her weight range so she could stand to loose a few pounds. I was feeding her 1 cup of her kibble in the morning and night (2 cups a day of kibble) and 1 dental chew bone (made with yogurt and potato) a day.

Since she's had salmon and eggs (2 oz of salmon/2 scrambled eggs) for breakfast, and her belly bone (which she ate by 8am this morning), maybe I'll skip dinner and give her only salmon starting tomorrow for the following 2-3 days. If that doesn't help, I'll try ground beef (I'll boil out the fat) and nothing else after that...and go from there.

Thanks everyone!
I really do appreciate all the support and advice!
...and I'm starting to realize that some Sibes, not only Ginger, really do have sensitive bellies!

Claudia

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:38 pm

So just an update, in case anyone is interested...

I put Ginger on a 24hr fast as of breakfast yesterday at 8am. So she's had only water since then for yesterday, and no other bowel movement.

Today, for breakfast, I gave 1/2 c of boiled ground beef at 8am, and 1/4 c of beef at 12:30pm...she hasn't had a bowel movement yet since yesterday morning. So she's either not had enough to eat to poop, or she's constipated which I don't think the later.

I'll give her another 1/2 c of beef tonight, and if she still hasn't had a bowel movement, I'll give her a little more beef.

If she still doesn't poop by tomorrow, I thought maybe I could give her a little bit of carrot for fiber on Saturday - half a carrot...? Or should I just give her a little more beef and stick to the 1 ingredient for another day or 2?

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:37 pm

I think adding a carrot would be fine. I can't remember if you mentioned whether or not you tried pumpkin but plain canned pumpkin helps regulate them so it helps not only with diarrhea but it also helps relieve constipation. Truthfully I would think she just doesn't have enough waste to warrant a BM yet but you do what you think is best. Maybe you could also up the amount of meat she's getting if it's not irritating her system. My sibe is 56 lbs and he eats about 3/4 to 1 lb of food daily, not sure what that is in cups.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:49 am

She finally had a BM this morning, and it started out as diarreha, but then toward the end it was soft form....so I 'think' ground beef is OK. At least I know she's not constipated. I hope this is an indication of her getting better.

When I weighed her last week, she was 58.5 lbs. I weighed 1/2 c of ground beef and it's not quite 2 oz, that means she ate about 6 oz of ground beef yesterday (1 1/2 c). I'll keep her on ground beef (only) for today and tomorrow and keep monitoring her BM and hopefully it just gets better.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:32 am

FIngers crossed for you. Just out of curiosity, why not feed the ground beef raw rather than cooked? Sorry if you tried that before and I missed a comment about how it went. Feeding it raw would give her more nutrients and is in a form that nature intended for her to eat. Nothing against cooking it or anything as I too mix in cooked and raw ground beef for my dogs too. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:11 pm

The only reason I don't feed raw is just the different opinions I've read...and that raw could also cause diarreha...?

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:40 pm

Depending on the individual raw may or may not cause diarrhea. I'm not suggesting you feed raw or cooked, just curious why you chose cooked is all. Smile I think more often than not raw is easier on the system for most. Of my 3 dogs, two of them have extremely sensitive stomachs and even my two sensitive dogs handle raw no problem. In fact they do better on raw than they do on cooked meat. Definitely do what works best for you and what you are most comfortable with. There is also the option of feeding the meat partially raw to preserve some of the nutrients that get cooked out. You can sear the meat so that the outside is lightly cooked while keeping the inside essentially raw. Searing the meat makes it much more appetizing for picky eaters who are not accustomed to raw and kinda gives you a "best of both worlds" type of solution. Just be careful when searing meat with bone in it since you don't want the bone cooked.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:24 am

I that's a great idea to have the outside seared and keeping the inside raw...thanks for the tip! It's good to know that other sensitive huskies do better on raw. I'll keep it in mind.

Right now, she's been a small amount of cooked ground beef for the second day today, and toward the end of today, it dark in color and more runny that before but it's a very small amount since she's not being fed much cooked beef in the last 48 hours. I added some rice with the beef to give her a little more so she has more in her BMs and I'll keep monitoring her BMs...Since I have take out another 1 lb pack of ground beef out of the freeze for tomorrow, I'll try searing the outside/raw inside.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:16 pm

I hope yours does okay with rice, mine does horribly with rice in his diet. Since you're still seeing some diarrhea, have you thought of maybe trying a meal of just plain old scrambled egg to see how she does on that?

I'm not suggesting that you abandon the beef idea yet, and I know you have your concerns with chicken, but maybe keep in mind that if it's not working out well with the beef there is also chicken and turkey (boiled or raw) that are common and cheaper alternatives to try.

Just as a side note, whenever my husky got the runs back when we used to feed kibble (Evo) I would give him a meal of The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw food. It worked like a charm the first time, every time. The Honest Kitchen would firm him back up instantly and has never let me down. Now I feed The Honest Kitchen all the time but it has always worked wonders for fixing the occasional bouts of diarrhea. Before switching to THK when I used to feed kibble/cans I would always keep a small amount of Honest Kitchen on hand for whenever one of my dogs happened to get the runs. It has worked wonders for all 3 of my dogs, so much so that even my sensitive dogs can eat more things while on THK that they couldn't eat before putting them on THK. Just thought I'd share what has worked for me in the past.

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:34 pm

I found a local store that carried THK and got samples! So, if beef and rice doesn't seem to help in the next 24 hours or so, I'll try THK samples.

We first tried salmon and scrambled eggs, but not eggs alone. If THK does help, then I'll use that as her base diet and slowly try different things to find out what she can/cannot tolerate.

Thanks for the tip!

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:35 pm

I'm glad you were able to pick up some HK samples. I hope it helps you, I recommend THK if bland diets aren't working since I've had so much success with it. I use THK as a base diet for my dogs too and mix in a variety of different things including raw meat, cooked meat, kibble, and canned foods. I also rotate HK formulas but my dogs do by far the best on Force. I highly recommend Force, Thrive, or Embark for sensitive tummies but Force has been the best for us. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:22 pm

Thanks!! I will definitely keep that in mind. The samples of THK is Verve. So I'll try that if rice and beef isn't working (I seared some meatballs so the inside is a little pink). She hasn't given me a BM yet, and she's due! Her last BM was Saturday afternoon, and she's been on rice/beef since Saturday evening.

I'll keep you posted!

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:50 pm

I would probably say Verve is the one that I've seen sibes have less success on. :\ I would look more into their turkey-based formulas.
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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Darn!
Ok, I'll see if that local doggie store has a sample of Force...or if they have money back satisfaction. They've been really good about having lots of samples, so I'll check.

Thanks for the tip, Heather!

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PostSubject: Re: Chronic mild diarreha   Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:40 am

She finally had a BM this morning - and it's still diarreha after being on rice/beef since Saturday dinner.

And after eating half of her breakfast this morning, she threw it up. Sad

I'll start her on The Honest Kitchen and see how she does on it...I hope she does well on THK...

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