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 aggression in my puppy!

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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:59 pm

Ok so my puppy is now fourteen weeks old and has been showing aggression the last few weeks but today was the last straw. I test her sometimes I'll fluff her fur up or I'll pet her when she walks by and she'll growl at me and look at me through the side of her eyes. I thought at first it was just her being vocal but I realized more and more that she was showing aggression. I noticed more today when I was playing with her and fluffing up her fur that this time she bared her teeth and took a bite at my finger. I then reacted with a no bite very sternly and put her on her side and stood over her until she looked calm and then I proceeded to walk away. She acts like she thinks that I am the leader the rest of the time. She follows me around the house. Every time she gets she'll lay between my feet to sleep when Im sitting.. I make her wait during feeding time until she looks at me and is calm before I feed her after feeding my other dogs separately since she has food guarding issues which I'm working on. I make her wait to go through the front door until I go through after a walk. I don't know what else to do. I praise her everytime she does something acceptable. She knows basic tricks. Sit, wait, down, stay, play dead. She's a great puppy other wise. I'm working on biting inhibition as well. She's a good dog. Just that aggression at times bothers me and I don't want her to get big and show the same aggression. Help!
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:16 pm

I don't know what others will think about this, but it is what worked for me, and was told by a professional trainer to do it.

Digger decided that he liked to follow me etc (I've had him or nearly 2 weeks now) and knew I was the food lady. But it became apparent that he didn't think of me as the leader... perhaps an equal.

Every time I would pick him up (after having him for a few days) he started growling. He stopped coming to me when I would call him and would just give me a quick look as if to say 'I'm all that and a bag of chips and I'll do as I please.'

Anyway trainer told me to put him in a submissive hold. Four times in a row being the 'key' amount of times apparently, but Digger now does everything I expect and no longer growls or bites me, only mouths me gently whilst playing or to get attention, and I only had to do it to him 3 times.
Other then that he is clicker trained.

If you are interested I can tell you how to do it. It does not hurt them, just knocks them down the pecking order a bit. (May however wound their ego)

Some others may have a better solution that does not require ego wounding.
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:19 pm

i would love to know what to do. i put her on her side but i guess that isn't good enough. every time she growls or shows any aggression toward me i do that but it doesn't work lol i must be doing something wrong? how do you do it?
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:21 pm

And in my personal opinion, not letting them go through the door first is a waste of time.
Keyto does and I want her too. when she is on her lead, I want her to pull, it's what huskies are built for.

Keyto has no 'bright ideas' about who is boss, she knows I am her Alpha, she just likes to lead the way which isn't bad. She's my 'scout'.
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:24 pm

your dogs are beautiful btw. i think i accidentally posted this topic twice. the second time i posted pictures of her. but would love to know how to do the submissive hold trick
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:34 pm

Please do not attempt this if you are not prepared to follow it through, if your sensitive at all, It may not be for you. This is the only 'forceful' thing I would do to a dog, and it isn't far off the way we restrain aggressive dogs. If you don't complete the exercise it could make your dog worse, thinking she has won.


You gently put your hand under her belly, grab her front leg furtherest away from you and gently pull it underneath her, which makes her fall onto her shoulder. you then put your hand firmly on her neck (not the wind pipe!!) and kinda hold her cheek bone with your fingers. You then hold her body down using your whole forearm (this is your free arm, not the one on her neck) elbow generally on thigh hand on shoulder.

She will protest. She will most likely growl and try to bite, then when she realises that isn't getting her anywhere, she should start whimpering. You may need someone to help if she is too big.
Once she has done enough whimpering so that your sure she has got the message, release her.
If she starts the problem behavior up straight away, do it again.

It solved my problems, so should do the same for you.

I only did it because I know sibes are stubborn, and I could not risk losing position of 'pack leader' as I want my husky to be happy, healthy and under control. I don't want a sibe that thinks he can do what ever he likes. I don't want a sibe that bites and growls.

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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:36 pm

Oh, and only use enough pressure to restrain her, not enough to hurt her..

I figured you would probably already know that, but thought I better make that clear.
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:45 pm

@hrangelotti wrote:
your dogs are beautiful btw. i think i accidentally posted this topic twice. the second time i posted pictures of her. but would love to know how to do the submissive hold trick

Ohhh Thank you, it is a cute pick, but Keyto looks like a frumpy old dog in it. I must get a better photo that shows how dazzling Keyto really is Smile she has blue eyes and they are very striking against the jet black.
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:50 pm

thank you i will definitely try this the next time she shows aggression. i'm trying to picture it. seems a little complicated but i think i got it. i don't want to do the wrong thing. hopefully it works. i'm sure if it worked for you it will work for me. yes she is very stubborn. i don't need a full grown aggressive husky though so i need to do this while she is still small thank you
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Niraya
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:56 pm

Dominance theory and the things that go with it...."pack of lies". Dogs do not live like their wolf counterparts and they don't live in a hierarchy like wolves.

You are more likely to create an aggressive dog by rolling on the back/side than you are to teach the dog to respect you - you are teaching the dog to fear you.

Arooroomom has a good thread about positive reinforcement training that you might want to pose the question to her because I personally do not feel that a young puppy can be labeled as aggressive.

http://www.itsahuskything.com/t11582-arooroomom-s-positive-reinforcement-force-free-training-thread?highlight=Arooroomom+s+positive+training

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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:02 pm

thank you niraya. i will try this as well. i am going to read everything i see. as i said she is an awesome dog with just some flaws in the aggression department. which is definitely an unwanted behavior i will do whatever i can to curb it. thank you guys
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dahowlers
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:30 pm

Is she actually being aggressive or just playing or something else? Snoopy bares his teeth AND growls when he's playing, if he's really excited he fluffs himself up. My mom was actually afraid he was going to attack me the first time I showed her this. Can you get a video? I understand how hard it is to explain a situation via text instead of visuals haha

EDIT: only when he's playing with me
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:10 am

i really think it's aggression. it's not when she is playing. she does it in an annoyed kind of way like i
ll pet her and she'll growl like leave me alone. she does growl when she's playing and bares her teeth a little but that doesn't seem to me to be aggressive. i'll just fluff her up like i'll put my hands on either side of her body and fluff her up and she'll growl and get annoyed sounding. the last time i did that she bared her teeth and snapped and tried to bite my finger. i figured out then that, that was definitely aggression. :/
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Niraya
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:16 am

Dogs have and need personal space. They get annoyed just like people do. The bared teeth was a warning - she was telling you she didn't like what you were doing. That isn't aggression. That is you instigating and the dog responding.

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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:27 am

If anything it sounds defensive, not aggressive. Why do you insist on doing the fluffing up if you keep getting this response? What benefit do you get from doing this? Is there a need for it?
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:29 am

@Niraya wrote:
Dominance theory and the things that go with it...."pack of lies".  Dogs do not live like their wolf counterparts and they don't live in a hierarchy like wolves.

You are more likely to create an aggressive dog by rolling on the back/side than you are to teach the dog to respect you - you are teaching the dog to fear you.

Arooroomom has a good thread about positive reinforcement training that you might want to pose the question to her because I personally do not feel that a young puppy can be labeled as aggressive.

http://www.itsahuskything.com/t11582-arooroomom-s-positive-reinforcement-force-free-training-thread?highlight=Arooroomom+s+positive+training

No offence, but it is well known that huskies have a 'pack' mentality.

Each is entitled to there own views, and preferences.

You just out right rubbished what I had to say, and I find that very insulting -But I'm sorry you are wrong about one thing. My dog isn't scared of me at all.

You could have just stated you disagreed with that form of training.


I otherwise train by the clicker method, because I approve of it.
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:33 am

I'm trying to get her to play or at times its just a test to see how she reacts. I have young children and they are taught to respect dogs but sometimes they want to pet her. Ill let them but a reaction with any kind. If growling or behavior i don't want. never had this with my other dogs. They just walk away when annoyed. I would love for her to be trained to do that. . A lot of times it gets her to play. But there are times when she acts aggressively about it. Either way I don't want that kind of behavior. I'll do more research in this and figure it out. Thanks everybody for your advice.


Last edited by hrangelotti on Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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dahowlers
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:36 am

Actually, dominance theory has been disproven many times, but people keep chanting about it because so-called "professionals" keep spewing it out. There are better, safer, and more effective ways to deal with problems dogs may develop, either because of their genetics or the way their owners are handling them.

And I agree with Jeff about the possibility of it being a defensive response, not aggression. True aggression is quite rare.


Last edited by dahowlers on Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:38 am

Your welcome. You atleast have a few different options to toss up. Go with clicker training if that will solve the problem for you.
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hrangelotti
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:41 am

Thank you histi.I appreciate the advice
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:47 am

@dahowlers wrote:
Actually, dominance theory has been disproven many times, but people keep chanting about it because so-called "professionals" keep spewing it out. There are better, safer, and more effective ways to deal with problems dogs may develop, either because of their genetics or the way their owners are handling them.

That's cool. I'm not actually pro the dominance stance at all but there are also flaws in clicker training. I reserve the right to use whatever training method I decide is best in any situation that happens to occur with my dog, and I should be able to share what has worked for my dog with others without fear of being stoned alive for it.

Everyone has a right to choose.

from what I have seen from this forum so far if you don't follow the herd and wont convert you may as well get out or be belittled and detested for having a different method or opinion - dont get me wrong, I agree with the majority of you on most topics, but others who don't get the apple cart thrown at them.

It's like the catholic church vs muslims or something around here.
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:53 am

It is extremely rare, especially in such young puppies.  They respond to stimulus at this age, that's it.  They need to be set up for success and put in situations where positive responses far outweigh negative responses, as this will get them to trust you and respect you.

She's only just begun her life with you and she doesn't trust you yet or respect you yet because she is too young and developing a dynamic with you.  

If you keep provoking things in her that cause her to react, not act, with aggression or tension, then you are teaching her that you are a source of hostility and tension.  She is going to associate you with stress and a need to be defensive.  

She's too young to play rough and she obviously can not handle the way you are interacting with her.  Her aggression, as it were, is the effect, not the cause.  She is a young Husky and they are naturally and normally mouthy and they use their teeth to interact with the world. She will do this enough on her own without your provocation.  

It sounds like you need to adjust your expectations to a more age-appropriate level for her.  And this advice is true for all of us that have had puppies.  Puppy owners can all benefit from respecting the nature of our puppies and their ways and taking responsibility for the responses we provoke in them.  She sounds stressed and tense and you can change that by teaching her to associate you with relaxation and calmness and positive energy.  

She's still a baby and she's not trying to take over your household and run the show.  She's trying to tell you something about how you are interacting with her.   It's up to you to change.
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:58 am

I'm not saying you don't have the right to decide, but you shouldn't spread misinformation. It's not like comparing different religions at all because it's science. There's been a lot of research on these topics. It is proven, it's not theory. I don't go with what other people tell me, I do my own research and I look for advice when I need it and I do more research.
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:09 am

@histi wrote:


@dahowlers wrote:
Actually, dominance theory has been disproven many times, but people keep chanting about it because so-called "professionals" keep spewing it out. There are better, safer, and more effective ways to deal with problems dogs may develop, either because of their genetics or the way their owners are handling them.



That's cool. I'm not actually pro the dominance stance at all but there are also flaws in clicker training. I reserve the right to use whatever training method I decide is best in any situation that happens to occur with my dog, and I should be able to share what has worked for my dog with others without fear of being stoned alive for it.

Everyone has a right to choose.

from what I have seen from this forum so far if you don't follow the herd and wont convert you may as well get out or be belittled and detested for having a different method or opinion - dont get me wrong, I agree with the majority of you on most topics, but others who don't get the apple cart thrown at them.

It's like the catholic church vs muslims or something around here.


Your metaphors and analogies are quite dramatic.  Nothing is personal. If you're promoting dominance based ideas, which you have been all day, and you are in the minority you need to accept the fact that the majority, then, will disagree with you and counter with a stronger force, seemingly ,then you have because there are simply more people in agreement with the majority. You yourself are not being insulted nor should you feel insulted by disagreement with dominance based theory. You and it are very different.  

It's that simple.  It's not personal.  If you are in the minority, own it.  You are not being attacked, but perhaps your idea will be.  It's discussion after all, that's the whole point.
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: aggression in my puppy!    Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:15 am

But it isn't misinformation... It worked!

I wasn't even aware it was dominance training!!!!

But yet I'm now a horrible person...

I've had enough of this.. rather then educate me, you just tell me I'm wrong.

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