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 At a loss for what to do with allergies

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siku&nikolai
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PostSubject: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:24 am

So out of no where Siku and Nikolai started to itch in the Fall and is continuing through the season now. At first I had no idea what was causing it and just thought it was environmental but I'm thinking that its not the case. They got the Honest Kitchen catfish skins which they've always had in the past and when we ran out it seemed like they stopped itching and at that time I was giving them the coconut oil. I gave them one again while giving the oil and the itching seemed to have came back strong, so I thought that was the solution. Well they haven't had those in forever and I've still been giving the Coconut oil and now Siku has all these scabs and potential hot spots, in the corner of his front leg. They have always eaten Orijen for about a year or so now maybe longer and never had problems. But I find it kind of crazy that he could of developed an allergy that fast to it out of the blue but I could be wrong, and the fact that both started at the same time itching, although Nikolai has no spots or scabs. I just don't know what to do. I dont' want to switch him off Orijen because its such a great food, but I don't know if its worth trying. No treats have changed, they are getting the normal amount of everything they always have, I called daycare to see if they had changed treats or cleaning supplies, and everything in their life is the same so I'm just VERY confused, and its hard because its both at the same time. Does any one have any experience with this or any suggestions on what to do or try!
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:46 pm

i think we are experiencing allergies too. But can't be sure if it's a seasonal allergy, dry winter skin, coat blow, or food allergy!

His hair is sparse right now but I am assuming that is because of his coat blow. He was on a limited ingredient diet for awhile, and then i started to add in some of his orijen, and then he got itchy. But that was also around the same time as his coat blow, AND when it started to get really cold and dry. I've cut out the orijen again (been 6 days), and plugged in a humidifier. Still itchy Sad It seems to be lessening, but i really can't tell.

SOME parts of his skin look a little pinker than normal, but not scabby. The tips of his ears are a little dry and scaly. I spoke to our vet, and he said it could be any of the things i listed above. UGH!!!!! He told me to keep an eye on it, and if it gets inflamed or rashy looking, then to bring him in. Or if it doesn't go away in 2weeks, then bring him in too.

I'm so paranoid and scared that it could be mites or a parasite or something!!
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siku&nikolai
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Yeah its a nightmare especially when it took me forever to find Orijen to begin with because all of Siku's problems with every other food available. I'm still hoping that its not the food fault and something else but I don't want to continue feeding it if that is the problem. I'm just hoping that its something else that I'm just not thinking of or its that time of the year. I know I should just switch and see if that helps but Orijen is such high quality I don't want to take a step down.

The white dogs are always so telling with their problems. Its almost kind of nice so you know quickly that something is off cause it just stands out so well in their fur. It sounds like you are going through the same thing. I would recommend trying Coconut Oil it really helped Siku's coat and the dryness, but now I'm just into something else. But I think its supposed to help with allergy related things.
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Eresh
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:53 pm

Have you had the vet to a skin scraping to rule out other causes?

A few weeks ago one of Luci's ears turned bright red and got all scabby. It turned out that hubby had gotten some treats. I checked the ingredients to make sure they didn't have chicken, which she is allergic to. They didn't, and the only ingredient that was suspect is soy. I threw them out, and her ear cleared right up within a few days. I guess I can add soy to her list of Things To Avoid.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Thanks for the info Samantha! I am really suspecting an allergy or dryness. I think if it was a bug or something, he'd be scabby and have little rashes. Our vet seems to think it is food related, so he just told me to keep a close eye for now, and if anything gets worse, then to bring him in.

We know that Gus can't handle the Orijen puppy formula. Most likely the chicken or the fish in there. He's on a duck formula right now and seems to be ok on it. On Saturday, he stole a couple milkbones and a bite of my sister's dog's food, so I am hoping his itchiness and loose bowel movements are due to that. His bowel movements are starting to firm up again.

Erica, I did start with coconut oil too. VERY small amounts to start. But he was having loose bowel movements since Saturday, so i want to wait for that to clear first before i start adding another item to his food. He has such a sensitive tummy!! Have you tried an oatmeal bath? I read that is supposed to help too. But then again, i've also read that ANY shampoo can make it worse because it washes away all the oil on their skin.

Looks like you both have white huskies too Smile This is my first coat blow with Gus so every clump of hair freaks me out!!! especially with the itchies, I am so worried it's something more than just a coat blow. Are you guys able to see pink in the armpit area? There are still guard hairs there so i don't think he's balding or anything, but it is visibly sparse. Even his belly area has very thin hair right now. Skin looks normal though.
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cinnamonbits
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:00 am

Hmm, it could be food related or flea related. No fleas on any of the dogs right? We had the worst flea season this year because we had such a mild winter and so the fleas were outrageous. We had a bunch of dogs coming in with hot spots that were secondary to fleas. But food seems more likely, maybe start a bland diet and then slowly add things back in to see what is causing the itchiness.
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histi
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:12 am

Some dogs here have an allergy to something we here call 'chicken weed' it can cause a rash and sores.

It is a seasonal plant - have they possibly been exposed to something like this?
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VintageJeans
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:14 am

Do the scabs look like this?

http://www.itsahuskything.com/t10785-so-i-think-my-foster-has-seasonal-allergies?highlight=so+I+think+my+foster+has

Have you tried giving benadryl? 2 ever 6 hours is the standard dose for a 50 lb dog. It's good for dogs with allergies. Benadryl didn't help with Maddie. I think Maddie was getting a small case of mange. She's been adopted but it cleared up when she was adopted out.

The only thing that worked for Maddie was that Pan Oxyl face wash. I think it was like $10 at Walgreens but it was the best $10 I ever spent for her. It has the benzyl peroxide and it helped clear up the mites (dogs will always have mites, but most with strong immune systems can control them).

You can always get a skin scrape too. I called my vet and it was $20 but I never had to get it done.

Try not to give too many baths. It dries their skin from the natural oils and the oils are keeping the skin healthy. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Have you checked for fleas? I think it's weird that they both have it at the same time too... Hmm.

Do keep us updated. You could always try to switch to a bland diet for like a week and see if it improves. It didn't improve with Maddie so I just kept feeding her the TOTW.
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siku&nikolai
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:24 am

Yeah I will switch to the bland diet, I just don't want it to be that food. Nikolai is like allergic to every protein known to man, and Siku gets loose poops with every other food so its going to kill me to have to find another brand if thats the case!

Luckily we haven't been giving any baths, and I think it kind of looks like your fosters Jackie but a little bit more scabby so I'm assuming Siku has just had them for longer. I will try to get that face wash and see if I can clear it up. They don't have any fleas and all of them are gone because its been freezing outside for more than a month now, so they haven't been around and we just stopped their medication at the beginning of December.

I just don't understand how its both at the same time. I mean thats very weird so I feel like it almost has to be something else. I mean it has to be uncommon that both dogs are the same time randomly have an allergy together. I'm going to check Nikolai over tonight to see if he has some scabs and its not just itching for him.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:54 pm

No fleas on Gus. No bumps or scabs either. It's kind of hard to even see if it's flaky and dry. His scratching has seemed to go down a bit. Maybe because of the humidifier?

The stool hasn't cleared up though. I might try a bland diet, but I have no idea where to start, especially if he's intolerant to chicken... And how much do i feed him?
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siku&nikolai
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Do turkey, if you can! Its worked great for me in the past when having to do bland diets because I have the same chicken problem. I kind of just guess on the feeding, so I'm sure someone will actually know the proper amount. You could do the amount for what they do on raw feeding. Its like a certain percentage of their body weight.
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VintageJeans
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:02 pm

I feed eggs as the protein. I use 3 eggs per meal. 1/3 cup of green veggies like green beans.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:02 pm

Turkey is easy to find! Razz Do you cook it first? And do you use minced turkey, or like a whole turkey leg/breast?

I was just reading this thread when you replied: http://www.itsahuskything.com/t5463-bland-diet?highlight=bland+diet
So i think eggs might be a good option too.

So if i try the bland diet for 2 days, and it seems to be good for him, then can i assume that it's his food that is not agreeing with him now? Should i try and add it back in with a mix of bland diet to see if the loose stool, etc. comes back? This is the 4th type of food we've tried now!  Sad 
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:04 pm

@TheBadGuppy wrote:
The stool hasn't cleared up though.  I might try a bland diet, but I have no idea where to start, especially if he's intolerant to chicken...  And how much do i feed him?  

My go-to bland diet = eggs and green beans.

Eggs are a neutral source of protein, and green beans provide fiber in their diet. You can start with 3-4 eggs and 1 cup of green beans 3x a day and adjust more or less depending on weight.

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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:08 pm

@VintageJeans wrote:
I feed eggs as the protein. I use 3 eggs per meal. 1/3 cup of green veggies like green beans.

Jackie, how many meals per day do you feed? And how heavy is your husky?

One of my biggest concerns with Gus is to put some pounds on him, so I am always worried that I am not feeding him enough. He is 45lbs, but very thin right now. If i try to give him too much food, he will get loose stools. So we feed him 3/4 cup x4 times a day. That helped with his stool, up until last weekend.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:10 pm

@cmanding wrote:

My go-to bland diet = eggs and green beans.

Eggs are a neutral source of protein, and green beans provide fiber in their diet.  You can start with 3-4 eggs and 1 cup of green beans 3x a day and adjust more or less depending on weight.

Hi Claudia! When you say "adjust more or less depending on weight"... how do i know which way to adjust? haha Gus will eat as much as you put in front of him! But it's just a matter of whether his tummy can handle all that food at once.

Do you just hardboil the eggs?

Sorry for all the questions!
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:24 pm

@TheBadGuppy wrote:

@cmanding wrote:

My go-to bland diet = eggs and green beans.

Eggs are a neutral source of protein, and green beans provide fiber in their diet.  You can start with 3-4 eggs and 1 cup of green beans 3x a day and adjust more or less depending on weight.


Hi Claudia!  When you say "adjust more or less depending on weight"... how do i know which way to adjust? haha Gus will eat as much as you put in front of him!  But it's just a matter of whether his tummy can handle all that food at once.  

Do you just hardboil the eggs?

Sorry for all the questions!

I fed my female, 47 lbs, 6 yrs old (at the time) 3 hard boiled eggs and 1 cup of blanched carrots, 3x a day. Green beans may be a better source of fiber than carrots but it was what she liked at the time.

Hard boiled eggs were easier as I would just cook up a big pot full since I would through almost a dozen in a day, so I bought eggs by the flat at the time which made it more economical. You can scramble them, but since you do not want to add anything if you can avoid it, hard boil was a better choice than scramble because the eggs would stick to a dry pan, even a non-stick (to some degree).

Adjust the amount of eggs and protein per meal by increasing it by 1 egg and 1/4 c of veggie/fiber source if he needs to put on weight.

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VintageJeans
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Oh, juneau is 50 lbs even. I scrambled them. She doesn't like carrots so that's why I used the green beans.
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:08 pm

Any eye goop or anything like that? When Diz has a food allergy reaction it always produces eye goop and smegma (genital discharge). I'm starting to think pork is an issue as well as chicken for him. He's raw fed and I notice after a few days of pork, his skin will get a little more pink and eyes will start to get goopy and he's itchier. If you're thinking about raw as a possibility, I found a place that produces hormone and antibiotic free raw for dogs and it's pretty reasonably priced. It's called Armellino's K9. They are based in Melville NY, but there is a store in Worcester, MA (I think only about two hours from Portland, ME) that carries their products. I haven't tried them yet, as my freezer is almost packed to the gills right now, but plan to when I do my next stock up. Raw is a great way to narrow down allergies as there's only one ingredient, you don't have to figure out if it's potatoes, beef, chicken, soy or some other ingredient. When you are feeding only one type of meat and you introduce something new, you'll be able to see the reaction right away. Smile When he was younger and I couldn't figure out what was bothering him (he had on-going issues with diarrhea, nickname was squirt back then), I tried a variety of dog foods with different proteins. My favorite ended up being Canidae pure sky. His poops were smaller, his weight was better, and overall he just looked healthier. Nutrisca is also a great brand for allergy prone dogs, it contains one protein and then uses chickpeas instead of other common starches. I also liked Merrick, they have a lot of different flavors and proteins in their grain free line, but his poops were much bigger volume on that. He was on and off the egg/green bean diet for a large part of his puppyhood.

When he was on the egg bland diet i would either hard boil them or microwave them. From the microwave the came out like they were scrambled, but I didn't have to add any oil or anything. Although those dishes weren't fun to wash.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:02 pm

Jen, Gus has all those things you described. Eye goops, and smegma. If he was doing fine on his food, is it possible that he just developed an intolerance to it all of a sudden?? How much longer should i keep testing this food out before i rule it out?

I'm definitely going to look into those other brands that you mentioned. I'm not quite ready to move to a raw diet yet. Not sure what kind of pre-packaged options we have in Canada. Sigh. this is so frustrating.
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:20 pm

Well, if Diz has a reaction, it will completely go away in about 4-5 days. I would do the egg diet for at least that long and if it clears up, you'll know. It was something I only recently noticed because I hadn't fed him pork in a couple weeks. I noticed the eye goop come back within 2-3 days.
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:28 pm

@TheBadGuppy wrote:
Jen, Gus has all those things you described.  Eye goops, and smegma.  If he was doing fine on his food, is it possible that he just developed an intolerance to it all of a sudden??  How much longer should i keep testing this food out before i rule it out?  

I'm definitely going to look into those other brands that you mentioned.  I'm not quite ready to move to a raw diet yet.  Not sure what kind of pre-packaged options we have in Canada.  Sigh.  this is so frustrating.  

He could quite possibly develop an intolerance/allergy, especially if you're not rotating his food.

If you're not ready to go raw just yet (or ever), I have heard a few pups going to a dehydrated food option was very helpful when developing an intolerance/allergy to dry food. Some of those brands are The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucys, Sojos, and Addiction to name a few.

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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:31 pm

Thank you all so much for your help! I'm going to try the bland diet for a day or two, and see if it improves, and then take it from there.

Erica, sorry if i hijacked your thread! I hope your pups get better with a bland diet too!
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:05 pm

@TheBadGuppy wrote:

Erica, sorry if i hijacked your thread!  I hope your pups get better with a bland diet too!

Hahaha don't worry! A lot of this information was very helpful to me as well. I'm going to look into some foods that were mentioned and take it from there. If its not the food, then I am literally back to square one and going crazy!

I did really like The Honest Kitchen when we fed that but be careful, he will poop some more. No a big difference, but you will notice it going up a little bit more.
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PostSubject: Re: At a loss for what to do with allergies   Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:36 pm

Sooooooo i started the eggs+green beans diet on Saturday, and ever since Saturday, he's had really slimy runs... and not a lot of stool. But very wet, and very slimy (sorry for that image). Almost like the green beans weren't fully digested. Also, he has a lot of gas now. You can hear his belly making noises all the time, especially in the morning.

He did manage to steal a couple more milkbones during training on Saturday morning (our trainer does this thing where the dog has to come to you even if there are food and toys on the ground... needless to say, Gus did not pass that test!). So i don't know if that is still working out of his system.

Anyways, since this my first time doing a bland diet, i really don't know how quickly i should be expecting to see results. I started with 3eggs+1c green beans. I thought it was too much. So i cut it down to 2eggs+1/3c green beans. This morning, it was the same kind of bowel movement as i mentioned above. So i'm just wondering if i should keep doing this, or try something else now?
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