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 Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?

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ICRedz
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PostSubject: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:30 pm

All,

Given Achilles' stomach problems, we decided to switch him to Orijen for a bit to see if it helps (we'll move back to raw again once this is sorted out), but yesterday, we bought a 5lb bag of Orijen Puppy. We didn't realize there was Large Puppy until I got home and looked on here to see how much everyone recommended feeding their dogs (and thus, had already opened the bag.) We are currently feeding him the regular Puppy mix, and by dping so, are we missing out on something key for Achilles? According to the bag, it works for dogs of his weight (30.4 lbs at 17 weeks!) for the regular puppy mix, but everyone on here uses Large Puppy.

Thanks for your help!
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:20 pm

Siberians aren't really large breed dogs - the Orijen puppy will be fine. Most of the time, Large breed food means there is more Chondroiton and Glucosamine and that's about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:14 pm

Humming, what makes you want to switch to Orijen? I am not saying it is bad, but indeed they are quite rich in protein and my 4 yr old boy occasionally can't manage that well, farts and have running stool.
Would homemade cooked food be your alternative?
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Playing with the Big Dogs
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:34 pm

Yeah Siberians are considered and medium to medium large dog. I guess any dog you can pick up as an adult isn't large Wink ? I hope his tummy issues clear up sick pups are the worse.
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ICRedz
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:50 pm

Megan, thanks for the info! Are those ingredients something he needs? He's growing pretty fast and I'm not sure what those do for dogs.

G&C- He's been on a raw diet since he was weaned, and we had him on that for awhile. In the past few weeks, though, he's been getting the runs from something, which we presumed was him eating stuff outside (and he was put on several rounds of metronidazole). While staying with my in-laws last week, it seemed to be clearing up at first as he took his meds, but then it reverted back to runny stools. He started sneaking some Orijen Puppy from my in-laws' dogs, and we found out that it wasn't hurting his stomach. So, while we sort out what is causing his stomach trouble, we figured we'd keep him on something we know won't hurt his stomach. If it's simply a matter of switching proteins, which it may well be, we will do that, but we wanted to consult with our vet first and see what he thought. Smile

Elise, thanks for the reassurance and the sympathy. He usually only gets a bath a month, if necessary. The past three days, though, he has had three of them. xX As have a number of our clothes and rugs.
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:23 am

Courtney, did you try probiotics and pumpkin? Or higher bone content?
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ICRedz
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:48 pm

Megan,

We tried pumpkin (2 T/meal), and it seemed to help for a day before his stools reverted back to mush. What sort of probiotics should we be looking at? Also, we typically feed him chicken quarters, is that enough bone/meal?
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:23 am

Mine get the poops from chicken quarters - I never feed them. Bone in for us is Turkey necks, duck carcass, chicken thighs, chicken necks, duck necks, and few other things, I stay away from quarters because mine just don't react we'll any time I feed them.

Try KAL, inc. brand Acidophilus probiotics,
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:03 am

@ICRedz wrote:
Also, we typically feed him chicken quarters, is that enough bone/meal?


That will vary from dog to dog.  As noted, what works for one dog may not work for another.  Take Megan's dogs for example, hers don't do well on chicken quarters while mine does excellent on chicken quarters. She never feeds them and for mine they are a staple.  It takes some work to figure out what will work for your individual.

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acevans07
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:31 am

I had 2 questions. My husband and I had Nanook on the raw diet for almost a year. He started having some issues like bacterial over growths and Guardia. I can't remember if he had any other problems. At first we didn't cook anything, but for his origin meal because he was picky. Evidently, the pickiness got worst and we had to cook most of his food for the exception of anything that had bone. The vet kept telling us all his problems were from his food. I figured it might have been the fish we gave him since that's when all his problems happened. So we decided to switch him to the 6 fish Orijen on days he got fish. I'd heard you could do that since some of the meat is expensive. He then started having diarrhea issues and rice and ground turkey want helping. The vet then convinced us to switch to there prescribed food. He's been on that from September-November. We then started to switch him back to the Orijen very slowly. We took a about 3-4 weeks to do the switch just to be safe. He did great until most of his meal was Orijen. We were giving him 2 cups a day. Now for my quotation. Sorry for the long history. How much should we give him? Or how much do most people give there huskies? He's 2 now and weighs about 60 lbs. His most active day is Wednesday's. My other question is, have you switched back to the raw diet? If so any advice and can we mix both Orijen and raw in his diet or should we just stay with one over the other?
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jmscott
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:22 pm

You say you're feeding chicken quarters, but what other proteins were you feeding in addition to poultry. A well rounded raw diet will consist mostly of red meats.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:19 pm

@jmscott wrote:
A well rounded raw diet will consist mostly of red meats.

On the contrary, a well rounded diet will consist of a fair amount of a variety of meats, not necessarily red meat. Wink

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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:39 am

to acevans07 questions.....if you choose to feed a mix of raw and kibble, feed at different times of the day. Kibble digests at a different rate than raw, so feed kibble in the am and raw in the pm or vice versa. Reading the threads on the raw feed section of this forum, should help. If you go that route you probably will want to feed less kibble. I feed a mix of both, and Miya does weigh more than your guy, and I'm not sure how to take the statement"most active on Wednesdays", Miya is quite active, especially on the cooler months, and I feed maybe 1.5 cups of kibble daily(3/4 to 1 cup in the summer). I may bump it up to 1.75 cups if she is super active, and she gets about 4 ounces of meat daily, several times a week she will also have a raw meaty bone. Treats are maybe a cow ear or pig ear. When I say active, she, on a slow day will have about 4 miles of running/walking, as well as playing. On a busy day that can be upwards of 10 miles(maybe more with playing) or a combination of 4 miles and 2 hours of hard playing with her husky boyfriend. She is also 2 years old. Hope that helps you out a little. And BTW, Val is right on, protein sources need to be varied, I do limit to mainly chicken, turkey and beef. When I can I also include venison, bison, and would like to include goat, and other birds, she's not big on fish, but that source is harder to find than what I mentioned. You also should include things like liver and other organs, so read up on the raw feed section.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:13 am

Thanks for the info. When we started the raw diet we read the forms on this site. I would really like to swap back, but am a little hesitant. We don't have a close by a holistic vet and our vet is completely against the raw diet. They blame his diet for a lot of his issues. Bone meals we gave him chicken thighs and Turkey necks. For the meaty meals we gave him Beefheart work shoulder and some salmon scraps. The salmon scraps were from the belly. I'd heard from a few fishermen that that's where all the bacteria goes. So I don't know if that's where he actually got some of his bugs or diarrhea issues. He started having diarrhea issues when we started feeding him the salmon scraps. That's why I was thinking it was the salmon. Which is why we switched to the 6 fish Orijen on meals/days that he got fish. He would get a bony meal and organ (pork liver our kidney) on Wednesdays and other days he would get the meaty meat. At least one meal on the weekend was a bone meal. When the diarrhea wouldn't cease the vet then had us put him on the prescription food. As of right now we are in transition from the prescribed food to the Orijen. If we want to go back to the raw diet, should we keep him on the Orijen for at least a month before we switch him back to the raw diet and kibble mixture? Also any thoughts on the salmon scraps? Could he get bacteria from that? Most of the time we had to cook it. So I don't think he got bacteria from that.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:15 am

When I meant most active on Wednesdays. We take him to a doggy daycare camp. He's there for at least 8 to 9 hours or so. For the rest of the week he's more lazy.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:00 am

Amy, Thank you for clarifying his exercise. The main reason I ask, is that many people over feed their huskies, unknowingly, then they encounter upset stomachs or overweight dogs, because it's a bad combination of overfeeding and not exercising enough. I mentioned on another post that huskies typically require less food than most breeds, and can indeed eat 25% less than what is recommended on food packages.

Most vets don't recommend raw diets, the problem is they are not as well educated in nutrition as in other areas of veterinary medicine. will you be feeding raw along with kibble? If so I don't think a slow transition is necessary, make it slightly gradual. If you are switching completely back to raw, I would slowly decrease kibble until all raw. There are many of us who feed partial raw and partial kibble, Orijen is an excellent food, so using the Orijen as a supplement to his diet can be helpful to ensure he receives all his daily nutrients. If you are comfortable feeding all raw, and you got the formula down pat, and he is getting every thing he needs, then I see no reason why you need to feed kibble.

The salmon question is a tough one, certain salmon is not recommended to humans nor dogs, I believe it's the mercury content, but I would have to look that up to make sure. Problem with raw fish, is that it can give a certain type of tape worm, so yes parasites can be a factor feeding raw fish. I do not recommend cooking fish, unless you give it to Nanook deboned, any type of cooked bone is a potential danger to your dog, and yes that goes for small fish bones. Yes fish is an important part of a good diet. However you can use the fish kibble, certain fish oils, and what some people do is feed sardines packed in water, even tuna packed in water(although tuna is normally deboned so you do loose the benefit of the bones). Btw, the tape worms caused by fish are tricky to get rid of, the 2 most common prescribed and over the counter medications will not get rid of tape caused by fish.

I hoped I helped a little more Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:54 pm

Thanks for the help and support. It feels really good to hear someone say that it's not the food causing his issues. As of right, we are trying to set up an appointment with a holistic nutritionist that I found in the Cleveland area for a 2nd opinion. My husband wants to wait to see what he has to say before switching him back on raw or mix kibble and raw.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:14 am

I know the question was asked awhile ago, but in case anyone else wanted more info on the original question regarding large breed vs. regular puppy food there's not only a higher amount of chondroitin and glucosamine, but it is also lower in calories and calcium. This is to keep the dog from growing too fast which can lead to weaker bones and muscles forming issues as well as makes them more prone to hip and joint issues later on in life. With most huskies, regular puppy food is fine, but if you know the parent's adult weight and it is over 60lbs, it might be worth looking into feeding the large breed formula. The large breed formula is also meant to be feed for up to 24 months where you would want to switch off the normal puppy food around 12 months of age. Hope that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:27 am

In regards to Amy's issue, like Renee recommended, I would probably go back to the raw diet and just stay away from the fish. I have read on many raw feeding forums that unless the fish is frozen for at least 2 weeks before being feed, there is a good chance it could cause issues due to the bacteria strains found in that type of protein. As for the total amount of raw to feed per day, most raw feeders will recommend somewhere between 2-3% of your dog's preferred body weight. It sounds like your husky is more on the active side so maybe start with 2.5% and adjust as needed. For a 60lb Husky that should come out to about 1.5lbs. Hope that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:46 am

Josh, That's about how much we feed him on the raw diet and we made sure he didn't get anything until it was at least 3 days to 2 weeks frozen. The fish we waited 2 weeks and everything else was 3 days to a week. Right now we have a small freeze full of meat that's been in there for about a year. I'm hoping this holistic nutritionist can help us out and let us know what's best for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Orijen Puppy vs Large Puppy?   Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:00 pm

Sounds good, hope everything works out! Very Happy
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