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 How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.

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Sheba&Kennedy
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Female Join date : 2012-08-13
Location : Nebraska

PostSubject: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Wed May 28, 2014 4:55 pm

ACK!

Didn't realize I had done this, but I taught my girls an auto sit. During a little training session today, I realized it would be a lot harder to undo this for Sheba then Kennedy.

Sheba takes a lot longer to "get the hang" of things and gets frustrated easily, so I have to break up commands in little parts for her to latch on. How the heck do I teach a stand?!?!


I tried putting a treat in front of her nose and slowly pulling it forward to get her to stand, but she would only follow it a short ways then she would stomp her feet and I could see her frustration.

Has anyone else had this problem?? I kind of flipped through some of my training books and in one of my Paul Owens books, he talks about training without training; treating your dog for doing what you want without asking. Would treating Sheba while she is standing and throwing in a command help her learn?? How has anyone else done this?

Thanks in advanced, guys!!
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Eresh
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Female Join date : 2012-10-06
Location : Space Coast, Florida

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Wed May 28, 2014 6:06 pm

I've gone through this before. I kept treats in my pocket all the time and randomly gave one when she was standing. After a few times I threw in 'stand'. Then, while she was already standing, I paused before giving the treat.. Once she had that down, I started asking her to stand from various positions. It took a while, because that's basically reconditioning, but it can be done. Smile
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Sheba&Kennedy
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Location : Nebraska

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Wed May 28, 2014 6:40 pm

That's what I figured would be the easiest way. I was like, "REALLY?!?" when I had realized what I had done.


I have Kennedy trained to do a tight circle as a "reset", but poor Sheba. She just gets so damn frustrated and shuts down so easily.

Glad to know I'm not the only one!
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GeorginaMay
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Female Join date : 2013-04-08
Location : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Thu May 29, 2014 3:44 am

Haha yup I feel your pain, Orion does the same and now we have moved up to the next obedience level I am having to train stand and even worse standing waits and stays  Rolling Eyes 
Luckily he was taught to "stack it" as a pup - he comes from a show breeder so I just reinstated that (which my class finds hilarious because he stacks himself so proudly lol and all the other dogs just stand there normally) but the standing still in a wait or stay is hard lol
I tell him to wait and he automatically sits down to watch me for his next command and If I tell him to stay he will settle into a comfy down until I come back for him...
I've been randomly click and treating the standing round the house too and to get him to hold it I have been holding a treat in my closed fist right at his nose - I then tell him to watch my treat hand and with the other hand I stroke his belly so he won't sit while repeating "wait"
He's catching on but its slow
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Ericobeasto
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Male Join date : 2012-11-20
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Thu May 29, 2014 8:15 am

Dont know if this will work. But if you dont tell him stay. And you take a few steps to walk away, will he follow?
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Ericobeasto
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Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Thu May 29, 2014 8:16 am

Maybe even just keep walking away until he stands and right away say "stand"
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Sheba&Kennedy
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Female Join date : 2012-08-13
Location : Nebraska

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Fri May 30, 2014 2:43 am

Like as soon as I even motion for the treats, Sheba's booty goes a million miles an hour to the floor. Plus, she still has issues with the down command!! She's such a mess!!!
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wpskier222
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Female Join date : 2013-02-11
Location : NYC

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Fri May 30, 2014 7:37 am

I think for almost all dogs, sit is the go to when they don't know what you want kinda like the dog that just runs through all his commands when you get a treat out. He doesn't know what you want but it's gotta be one of them. Stand is Dizzy's go to. I didn't train him sit until he was about 10 months old.

Anyway, how is she about having you touch or manipulate her body for her? Something that could work, is getting a cheap slip lead like the have at the vets, and then tying her very close to something above her head. I used a crate for Diz before I got a grooming table. Anyway, tie her when she's standing or sitting next to the crate. Then put your arm or hand under her belly and gently lift upwards. As soon as she's out of a sit, even if you're basically holding her up, click and treat. If she's anything like Diz, the click will make her pause in her frustration over not getting it. Also I wouldn't use anything super high value at first. Sometimes the desire for something really good turns off the brain cells. A tip for this is to have a bowl of treats or kibble on top of the crate so it's easier to be able to manipulate her and not have treats in your hand while doing it. If you have to hold the treats she'll just start moving in all kinds of weird ways trying to reach your hand.

Does she know shake, or high five? That works for me as one I can use that he 'gets' and if he's starting to get frustrated I throw that in a couple times in a row so he gets into training again. He's got a real soft personality and if he can't figure it out he gets upset and goes and lays in his bed. So I'd tie her to the crate, help her stand, reward, then do the high five. Or touch is another good one for this. Just something she can get right and stay interested. And just keep repeating, if she gets a click and a treat every time you help her up for a while, she'll know she's doing something right. You can fade the hand on the belly slowly by just gently touching her belly, then her side, then pointing toward the area where you would put your hand. You can add the command when you start to fade lifting her up.

If my description of tying her to the crate doesn't make sense (it's early, and I didn't sleep a lot last night, and may or may not be slightly hung over), let me know and I can take a pic of what I mean when I get home from work tonight.
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lillith87
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Female Join date : 2013-05-26
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: How to undo a very well programmed auto sit.   Fri May 30, 2014 1:54 pm

When Okami is sitting and I want her to stand up, I just shake the treat above her head and say up happily... sometimes she tries to jump up at it, but when she is just standing there after she calms down over it I clicker and treat.
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