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 Anti crate training/housetraining.

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lillith87
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PostSubject: Anti crate training/housetraining.    Fri May 30, 2014 3:13 pm

I didn't really know how else to label this topic.

Okay let me begin by stating my ultimate goal.
I want to let Okami out of her crate at all times of the day and not worry constantly if she is getting into trouble.

Now let me state this now. She is not in her crate at all times of the day. She is out of her crate about 75% of the time (sleeping and when I can't watch her is when she is in it) BUT I have to use baby gates to keep her within eye sight of me for which room we are in. She gets adequate time outside, I don't have a backyard so most of it is leashed outdoor activities, except the 3-4 times a week we go to the dog park for a few hours each time to let her run around freely. (I would take her to the dog park everyday, but I don't drive so I have to work around my fiance's work schedule when he can take us.

Here are the underlying issues.
When she is out of the crate, she is constantly arguing with me about things she wants to do vs. me not wanting her to do them. I understand though, TEENAGE huskies are very argumentative, and are like puppies whom need "re-training".... But Okami, is a smart ass. She KNOWS she is doing something wrong and pretty much laughs at me when she does them. How do I deal with this sort of behavior, I know it is a phase and she will likely not act like that in a year, but what can I do to get her to have a more calm demeanor? I treat and praise her when she is calm, which I do say she is calm a lot, but she just has that nature to drive me up the wall on her terms.

Next Issue. We have a cat. He was here before her. I know the ideals of cats and huskies don't make good house mates. Despite our attempts at making them have a civil relationship, the cat wants nothing to do with her... It isn't her problem. She loves the cat, and always shows signs of friendship making, play, and good natures. It is the cat. He is de-clawed on all paws (not my fiances choice, his claws were removed at my fiances ex- step dads request in the war of the leather furniture I guess) so when he tries to defend his bubble all Okami gets is soft batting paws, which makes her think he is playing with her. So naturally she attempts to encounter the cat every time she sees him. I am afraid he is going to bite her one of these times she tries to play with him and then I have a puncture wound to deal with or worse Okami might react negatively and hurt him too.. Is there anyway I can get them to be civil? Because if I want them to be co-existent in the house Okami needs to leave the cat alone upon sight, which with her teenage defiance seems a little nigh at the moment.

The other issue. My Fiances father. We live with him. We have separate living rooms. He is EXTREMELY angered easily so my wishes to let her roam freely through the house might encourage him to be really mean to her if she does anything wrong. I have tried to talk with him about how he yells at my daughter, as have I tried to get my daughter to stop doing the things that make him mad, neither situation can be helped. This is his house, and he is just a grumpy old man so I just try to stay out of his way. But if I let Okami roam she might mess something of his up and then get mad at her or me and I don't like the sounds of this future.

Another issue. She wants to be on the furniture. I have strongly been trying to get her to understand that she can't because if I want her to roam in the house, my fiances dad doesn't want animals on his furniture. So if I let Okami on my furniture, she is just going to get confused into thinking it is okay to go onto his. Whenever I try to tell her "no couch" and push her off, she barks at me really loudly and acts like I am depriving her of her right to be there. And I know she knows that I don't want her on the couch, because every time the cat jumps up there she lets me know. Also when the cat jumps up anywhere like the table the counters etcetera.


Okami doesn't really try to chew on inanimate objects anymore, she just likes to lick at the ground to try and eat anything on sight. It is a war to keep my daughters things cleaned up so they don't become a chew toy, also vacuuming to make sure she doesn't eat something that she shouldn't. All of these things I don't mind doing to take measures to keep everyone safe. But I am afraid if I let her roam she might destroy something out of boredom when I am like going to the bathroom or something. He has a bunch of stupidly expensive things in his living room in dog height like surround sound speakers and their cords.... etcetera.

One more issue I have been having. Whenever I have company over, I have to crate her the entire time or have her tethered to me. She is extremely excited when people come over. She loves people so much I cannot stress that enough. She jumps up on people, paws at them, licks profusely, bullies people into petting her by body slamming... just basically runs a muck. And any attempts to get her to stop are futile and not working at all. And here is the huge KICKER to this situation. It is just our friends. Only our friends. When we go to the dog park, she never jumps on anyone-actually barely even says hi to anyone except dogs. We went recently where I went by myself at first, my fiance went to pick up one of our friends... they showed up about an hour later since we got there... She immediately ran to my friend (this is not a first time meeting between my friend either it is like the millionth) and proceeded to jump up on him and act nuts.... however, she did stop and acted natural after like 5 minutes.She had been tired out, like laying down panting catching her breath tired.... I just don't understand why it is a difference, I am hoping you guys can tell me. Oh and I do have people ignore her when they come over till she calms. But when I let her try to see people at that point, she goes nuts again so she gets secluded. It is never ending and I don't want it to be that way. She does not act this way toward either me or my daughter or my fiance.

So my question is what would be some advice to begin getting her to adapt to the living situations here... or how can I adapt situations for her to make it to where she can roam from different rooms. I do plan on getting my own place in the future, but it isn't happening for a little while. Or should I keep doing what I have been doing with the baby gates still? It is working I suppose, but it just feels like a broken solution. Thanks for any advice your guys are great, and I am sorry for the book.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Anti crate training/housetraining.    Fri May 30, 2014 4:15 pm

@lillith87 wrote:
I didn't really know how else to label this topic.

Okay let me begin by stating my ultimate goal.
I want to let Okami out of her crate at all times of the day and not worry constantly if she is getting into trouble.


It's great that you have an end goal in mind, but after reading through everything, I think you need to scale that back a bit. I do this too, I have something that I want in mind, but then realize it's just not going to happen. I would give up, work to adapt to the current situation, and then a few months later, realize that my previous goal is now possilbe because he has matured. I think in this case, just accept that this is where you are, and do your best to make it comfortable for everyone.


@lillith87 wrote:
TEENAGE huskies are very argumentative, and are like puppies whom need "re-training".... But Okami, is a smart ass. She KNOWS she is doing something wrong and pretty much laughs at me when she does them. How do I deal with this sort of behavior, I know it is a phase and she will likely not act like that in a year, but what can I do to get her to have a more calm demeanor?


Honestly? Time out. Have you used it with her before? Dizzy's timeout phrase is, "Do you want to go to your room?" Normally he'll calm down and behave, if not, stern voice, point toward alcove, "Dizzy, go to your room." Head goes down and he sadly goes in the alcove until I call him back out. Ultimately, she wants your attention. Jumping on the couch and having you chase her off is fun for her. She wants to play and engage with you. Huskies have a really obnoxious, in your face way of doing so, but in my opinion, her goal is to get you to play and have fun. Kinda like pulling your pigtails on the playground, or tugging at your skirt. "Moooom, mom, did you see, moooom looook at meeeee!" Using time out will help her learn that you initiate play (and make sure you DO actually initiate it) on your terms not hers. Yes, she's laughing at you, because she thinks you're playing.


@lillith87 wrote:
Next Issue. We have a cat. He was here before her. I know the ideals of cats and huskies don't make good housemates. Is there anyway I can get them to be civil? Because if I want them to be co-existent in the house Okami needs to leave the cat alone upon sight, which with her teenage defiance seems a little nigh at the moment.


Does the cat ever approach Okami? If not, you need to teach Okami not to even look at the cat. I started this with Dizzy and our cats at a really young age, and now he complete yields to them. Martini is really curious about him, but if she approaches him, he might do a very gentle sniff but if she skitters away or hisses he does not chase, and he looks away. He still gets it in his head occasionally to approach them standing up tail wagging, but I don't allow this and correct him every time. Maybe someday he can be friends with Martini, but at the moment he needs to totally respect the cats and I don't like him approaching and invading their space. To teach Okami this I would try a squirt bottle. If she likes the squirt bottle, put in a tiny amount of vinegar (just enough to stink). Have one nearby at all times and if she so much as looks at the cat tell her to leave it, if she doesn't look away, squirt, if she does, treat. It sounds like in this case the cat and the dog ignoring each other would be the best case scenario.


@lillith87 wrote:
The other issue. My Fiances father. We live with him. We have separate living rooms. He is EXTREMELY angered easily so my wishes to let her roam freely through the house might encourage him to be really mean to her if she does anything wrong.


Don't set her up to fail. If you don't think she's ready, leave the baby gates up.


@lillith87 wrote:
Another issue. She wants to be on the furniture. I have strongly been trying to get her to understand that she can't because if I want her to roam in the house, my fiances dad doesn't want animals on his furniture. So if I let Okami on my furniture, she is just going to get confused into thinking it is okay to go onto his. Whenever I try to tell her "no couch" and push her off, she barks at me really loudly and acts like I am depriving her of her right to be there. And I know she knows that I don't want her on the couch, because every time the cat jumps up there she lets me know. Also when the cat jumps up anywhere like the table the counters etcetera.


If you see her about to get on the couch correct her, I say "uh uh." If she gets up anyway, make her get off, and if she gets sassy, timeout. It won't take her long to figure out being sassy = boring alone time. Also, I don't think she's 'tattling' on the cat, I suspect this is more about prey drive, it sounds like she is generally interested in and fascinated by the cat and seeing it hop up onto something increases her excitement toward the cat, like a squirrel going up a tree or a bird flushing out of a bush.



@lillith87 wrote:
Okami doesn't really try to chew on inanimate objects anymore, she just likes to lick at the ground to try and eat anything on sight. It is a war to keep my daughters things cleaned up so they don't become a chew toy, also vacuuming to make sure she doesn't eat something that she shouldn't.  All of these things I don't mind doing to take measures to keep everyone safe. But I am afraid if I let her roam she might destroy something out of boredom when I am like going to the bathroom or something. He has a bunch of stupidly expensive things in his living room in dog height like surround sound speakers and their cords.... etcetera.


Bitter apple? Works for Diz, but I know it has no effect on others, you'd just have to try to see if it works. Also worked on an exercise about dropping and picking stuff up off the floor. Basically, you work on having the dog sit or lay down, and drop treats on the floor and tell them to leave it. Reward by picking up the treat and giving it to her, not by allowing her to get it herself. I worked on this a lot with Dizzy and inside the apartment, I can be preparing raw meat and drop a piece on the floor and he won't go for it. It takes a lot of work. I kind of remember a video of you doing something similar with Okami, so you're probably ahead on this one, you just need to extend it so she realizes that it's not fair game on the floor. Also, what does she have to chew on? Anything she's allowed to chew?


@lillith87 wrote:
One more issue I have been having. Whenever I have company over, I have to crate her the entire time or have her tethered to me. She is extremely excited when people come over. She loves people so much I cannot stress that enough. She jumps up on people, paws at them, licks profusely, bullies people into petting her by body slamming... just basically runs a muck.  


Well, I think this is just something you are going to have to practice and repeat and repeat and repeat. If they ignore her til she's calm, then she goes nuts again, then ignore game starts all over. It's going to drive her into a frenzy when you start doing this, and she'll be an exhausted panting mess at first, but it's just gotta be done. Hopefully you have a patient friend that can do this with you. And only start with one person, if you start with 2 or 3, it will be just too overstimulating. Goes like this: friend comes in, you have Okami on a tether, friend stands, does not make eye contact with Okami or acknowledge her in any way, Okami goes crazy, eventually calms down, friend moves forward to Okami. Okami goes crazy again, friend steps back, totally disengages all interaction. Over and over. At first Okami may not even get to a point where you can let her say hi, at first, but keep at it. Also choose a very calm, easy going friend to help you with this. If a person has an excited energy, she will just reflect that.


@lillith87 wrote:
So my question is what would be some advice to begin getting her to adapt to the living situations here... or how can I adapt situations for her to make it to where she can roam from different rooms. I do plan on getting my own place in the future, but it isn't happening for a little while. Or should I keep doing what I have been doing with the baby gates still? It is working I suppose, but it just feels like a broken solution. Thanks for any advice your guys are great, and I am sorry for the book.


I don't think it's a broken solution, any more than it would be if you had a baby and were using baby gates. Gotta walk before she can run, and if she's not ready, she's not ready. You won't do her any good by putting her in a situation she can't handle. Also, how much do you play, train, walk, and interact in a fully engaged way daily? Even though she's not a little puppy, she is still a young husky that probably lives to play with you. Maybe invent some new games, get some new toys, and walk a different route. They love novelty!

She's testing you again, and you just have to be firm. I think at this age they just totally crave engagement and interaction, and time out is going to be the best tool here. Can't play nice? Aw... too bad, time for time out.
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lillith87
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PostSubject: Re: Anti crate training/housetraining.    Fri May 30, 2014 5:52 pm

@wpskier222 wrote:
Honestly? Time out. Have you used it with her before? Dizzy's timeout phrase is, "Do you want to go to your room?" Normally he'll calm down and behave, if not, stern voice, point toward alcove, "Dizzy, go to your room." Head goes down and he sadly goes in the alcove until I call him back out.

Yes, we have been using time out with her actually exactly as you describe. I say do you want to go to your room??, then she will either lay down where she was standing and go "oh no I pushed a button!", or continue to be a brat, then I tell her to go to her room, and then she walks all sad, head down, tail down, slow and shameful. It breaks my heart to see her get that sad though lol.

@wpskier222 wrote:
Does the cat ever approach Okami? If not, you need to teach Okami not to even look at the cat. I started this with Dizzy and our cats at a really young age, and now he complete yields to them. Martini is really curious about him, but if she approaches him, he might do a very gentle sniff but if she skitters away or hisses he does not chase, and he looks away. He still gets it in his head occasionally to approach them standing up tail wagging, but I don't allow this and correct him every time. Maybe someday he can be friends with Martini, but at the moment he needs to totally respect the cats and I don't like him approaching and invading their space. To teach Okami this I would try a squirt bottle. If she likes the squirt bottle, put in a tiny amount of vinegar (just enough to stink). Have one nearby at all times and if she so much as looks at the cat tell her to leave it, if she doesn't look away, squirt, if she does, treat. It sounds like in this case the cat and the dog ignoring each other would be the best case scenario.

Yes the cat approaches Okami out of spite or something.. He will walk into the room walk right past her like he is taunting her or something .... he is doing it as I type too... And then she wants to seek playtime with him and then he goes into evil grumpy cat mode and tries to bat at her or bite her. .... I love the idea with the squirt bottle. I started to do that when she was a pup but, it didn't really take after a while. I will enter it back into her world, and if it becomes a no big deal to her again I will try the vinegar.

I bike her for about 10 minutes at least 3 times a day so 30 minutes spread up. We go on 2 walks one in the morning and one at night that last at least 20 minutes each. If she is acting rediculously crazy in the middle of the day we go walk on the treadmill for a little bit- until she is like "hey, I am done I need water." I go through her tricks everyday maybe 3 times a day. And I always try to add new things, re-order how I did them previously to spice it up for her we play fetch outside everyday, and we roughhouse daily. She likes to sleep on my lap so we take a nap together everyday. She is pretty much at my hip with or without tether.

@wpskier222 wrote:
Also, I don't think she's 'tattling' on the cat, I suspect this is more about prey drive, it sounds like she is generally interested in and fascinated by the cat and seeing it hop up onto something increases her excitement toward the cat, like a squirrel going up a tree or a bird flushing out of a bush.

I didn't even think of that. Why didn't I think of that? I always thought she was just like, "Hey, the cat is on the couch. Mom, the cat is on the couch, you should do something about that." lol

The bitter apple doesn't work for her at all, and I don't like my hands getting it all over them, because then eventually it ends up in my mouth..... yuck ... I used it for a while when she was a pup, but she ignored it. I will have to try the treat release game again. I tried at one point, but everything is so high value to her that she just swallows it before I can get it back. She does know drop it for outdoors debris she tries to pick up, or for fetch. I give her antlers to chew, and kongs, she has the orange chuck it balls.. I can't really give her anything else because she just noms them in minutes... then I am like, "Great, I just spent 20 bucks on a toy that took you 5 minutes to destroy!" -ugh. lol.

@wpskier222 wrote:
Goes like this: friend comes in, you have Okami on a tether, friend stands, does not make eye contact with Okami or acknowledge her in any way, Okami goes crazy, eventually calms down, friend moves forward to Okami. Okami goes crazy again, friend steps back, totally disengages all interaction. Over and over. At first Okami may not even get to a point where you can let her say hi, at first, but keep at it. Also choose a very calm, easy going friend to help you with this. If a person has an excited energy, she will just reflect that.

I will try to find someone that can come over and help me with this. All of my friends live like a 1 hour drive from me.. so maybe someone can come help.

But yeah, thanks for the advice! I will try some of the new and old tools you gave me. Hopefully I can get her to level out a little bit, and eventually reach the point I know she can get to.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti crate training/housetraining.    Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:07 am

So I have been doing some trial runs with Okami on her own yesterday, she has been doing really well. The squirt bottle works for now as a correction. She gets all mopey when I do it though, but she stops doing things she shouldn't instantly. I think this is looking easier than I thought it would be though. She follows me everywhere I go, and barely doesn't want to leave the room unless if I do.

Oh my goodness the timeout thing is golden though. When she doesn't listen to me by my like 3rd time of asking, she gets sent to her room. She lays right down and stares at me intently until I let her out. Of course I don't tell her she can come out until she looses that sharp stare though, and calms down some.
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