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 How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?

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Teenager
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Male Join date : 2013-03-24

PostSubject: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:22 am

Twice now I've started long threads with my emotions pouring out, but each time, before I can click "send" the page automatically closes out, as if there are outside forces fighting to prevent me from this endeavor. This time I will win. This time I will start the thread and then continue to reply in blurps to get my point across. I will not be defeated, nor deleted! More to come on my thoughts that led to the creation of such a random, but heartfelt, thread...

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Teenager
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:00 am

I'll start here, with the fact that we are all Siberian Lovers. We are connected to one another through our dogs. Our unique and extreme "challenges" who most of us would die for. I know I would. I have already defended my dogs with no regard to the end result of my life or death being put on the line. I've beat aggressive off-leash dogs until they surrendered their attack. I've searched a forest for hours until I was able to recover my dog who slipped the leash. I told myself, and the forest fairies, out loud that I will remain in the forest until I either find my dog or die trying. I was not joking either. Luckily for me, after 4 hours, my dog and I were reunited.

We are connected...but what is connecting us to the Chukchi from whom our beloved breed came? Do we even think about them? I know just about every Sibe book I have read starts with the history, and briefly mentions the Chukchi tribe. No more than a chapter, usually less even, is sacrificed to educate us on the origin story as it relates to these magnificent peoples. This has led me to believe that not much is known about the Chukchi. This is what brought me to you tonight (my time zone, as I'm writing from Korea).

I did some digging. I found some websites. Here's one: http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/chukchis.shtml

It is worse than I imagined. It sounds as if these people, the amazing people who literally created this perfect (or far from it sometimes) dog, have been reduced to slaves in concentration camps. I'm reading on. I'm studying further. My blood is boiling and my emotions are running high. I will check, double check, and cross check the information. I will find a contact that is a Native. I will open dialogue with them to confirm their conditions. Are they mere slaves under Russia's iron fist? Are they a happy tribe? Why is there no mention of the Chukchi being the beginning founders of the ancient Siberian Husky? Has this history been erased or deleted on purpose. Are we not supposed to know? I've checked other sites about the Chukchi history. Again, no mention of their dogs. Why is that? Conspiracy? I will dig deeper. I will uncover the truth. I will connect with these people and thank them for my Paw Paw.

I will write more in another reply, as I am afraid this will get deleted before sending.

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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:14 am

I will thank them for my Beowulf, who is part Sibe.



I have not had this fire burning inside me in a long while. I am awake. I am alive. The passion burns. I could not concentrate on anything tonight until I was able to start this thread. And after it being deleted twice before posting, I thought maybe I should give up. But the fire still burned. The passion makes me wild. Wild like the ancestors of my Paw Paw. Wild like a mad man on a mission to offer a hand to these people. To thank them. To help them. To assist in any way I can. Paw Paw has changed my life. Beowulf has changed my life. I owe them my life. I owe the Chukchi my life. I will make that sacrifice. Sacrifice my life to be able to make them aware of my endless eternal thanks. The Chukchi are heroes in my eyes. For what they endured. For what they created, molded, and sculpted from dog and wolf. The fact that these people are still alive in a very cold and lonely place, living in poverty similar to our Native American Indians. To know they probably think we have forgotten them. To think they probably feel like we are ungrateful and could care less about them, their history, their current living conditions, and their connection to us through these dogs. I cannot forget. I cannot live with regret. I must reach out to them. Please join me. Please brainstorm and read and write and research and reply. If the fire only burns for me, so be it. But I have a funny feeling that I will not be alone in this endeavor. I know that I will receive help from similar people like myself who have a beating heart and blood flowing to toes and fingers and brain. Look at your dog in the eyes and trace the history back to these tribal peoples. Can you see it with me? Can you sense the glorious past of this breed? There is no other breed like them, and we have the Chukchi to thank. Let's thank them. Let's do it together. Let's let them know how grateful we are for our dog/s!
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:27 am

Let's let them know how grateful we are for THEIR dogs! Their dogs became our dogs. Let's do more than just thank them by loving our dogs. Let's truly thank them. Help me to figure out a way to thank them in a way they would appreciate being thanked. Sincerity. Thanks on a level that would truly touch their hearts. I will learn about their culture and figure out what true thanks means to them. I've travelled the world and know that each culture receives things in a different way. I've learned through marriage counseling that I need to love my wife the way SHE wants to be loved, and not the way I want to love her. I want to thank the Chukchi people the way THEY want to be thanked, not the way I've been raised and taught through life's experiences to thank others. I've never met the Chukchi. I have no idea what it would take to get my message through to them. But I respect all people, and all culture, and know that I have the ability and desire to find the correct way to thank them. Monetarily? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm reading that they have a heavy addiction to alcohol. I don't want my thanks wasted on that. It seems through my reading that the introduction of alcohol was part of the plan of the Russians to weaken the Chukchi and to get them addicted so the Soviets can hold that power over them until they broke down and gave in to treaties and contracts that aimed to cheat them. I will not support that. I want to help build them up. Strengthen them. Help them in such a way that they will be thanking me for thanking them. A mutual respect. A mutual understanding that these dogs have linked us forever. Me and them. Paw Paw and his pedigree going back thousands of years. One of the 14 original breeds evolved from wolf. And along with the Alaskan Malamute, they are 2 of the original 7 breeds dating back to the split from wolf. So somewhere, anywhere, from 35,000-12,000 years ago until modern times, the ancient people helped shape this breed as they moved North to Siberia.

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Teenager
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:55 am

My eyes are getting as heavy as my heart. It's late in Korea. I'm tired. The fire will burn again tomorrow. I will continue my quest. I will write more outpourings of heart and soul on screen. Maybe I'll even get some replies. I haven't lost my marbles. I've found myself. Found myself through my dogs. I now live with a purpose. I live for them. They are my life, just like my children and wife. The Chukchi have bestowed upon me a boon: they have opened my mind and heart and arms to a breed that stands alone. I stand alone. I would rather stand with all of you. But I can and will stand alone. I've been doing it for 20 years now; possibly 39. I would rather stand alone strong like a lone wolf, then weaken to stand with sheep and fall prey. I pray to the gods of snow and ice to never extinguish my fire or dampen my spirits when it comes to my future among the Chukchi, in person, via internet, or in spirit. My eyes might close, but my eyes will reopen even brighter than the Siberian snow tomorrow morning. I will dream of Paw Paw and Beowulf dancing among their brothers and sisters in Siberia, circling and sniffing and reuniting with their lost tribe. Maybe the Chukchi is my lost tribe. Maybe I am meant to be with them. I do have the desire to volunteer and help reconnect the Native American Indians with their spirit wolf. I will start with the Nez Perce in Northern Idaho, near the Wolf Education and Research Center (WERC) that I will be interning at next year.

Sleep deprivation is getting the best of me. Better sign off before this gets deleted. Goodnight, fellow Chukchi admirers.

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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:09 pm

@counter wrote:

It is worse than I imagined. It sounds as if these people, the amazing people who literally created this perfect (or far from it sometimes) dog, have been reduced to slaves in concentration camps.



Yup, that was Soviet Russia's thing man. They did that to pretty much everyone under their occupation.  Soviet Russia wasn't exactly the nicest country that ever existed, which is why we were so anti communist back in the cold war. Razz

Anyways I'm grateful to the Chukchi people just as much as the next guy, after all they were the original breeders of Siberian Huskies. Although I don't know if I would go so far as gratifying them to the point where we place them with a higher priority than others. If you want to go and help them in some way then all the more power to you! It would be really cool if we could find some way to help them out, maybe start a charity for better schools and technology over there or something. I would just personally place it on an equal level to any other international aid (like say for example, helping people in Sudan or Argentina).

Also even though the Chukchi gave us Huskies, that was many generations ago. Not to mention that the Huskies we know and love today weren't popularized and bred by Chukchi. In fact, if my information is correct they technically didn't even "give" us Huskies. Instead westerners had them imported to Alaska during the Gold Rush back in the early 20th century. I would guess that they were bought and payed for with tradable goods or something along those lines. If we're going to be thanking the Chukchi for our dogs then we should also thank the descendants of those who first brought Huskies to the USA, as they played a huge part in getting the breed recognized and popularized for us to enjoy.

To draw an analogy, it would be almost like saying "Romans let us communicate the way we do because they gave us Latin. So therefore we should go out of our way to thank Italians who are related to Romans for doing so." I don't really agree with that line of thought, but to each their own I guess...


Last edited by AMB on Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:00 pm

My limited reading of the material suggests a different interpretation...

from your link:
In 1778 the Russians thought it preferable to conclude a peace treaty with the Chukchis. The treaty held and the forcible gathering of tribute was abandoned. If the Russians had not yielded, probably all the wayward Chukchis would have crossed over to the American side of the Straits. Abandoning the fortified settlement of Anadyr helped appease the wrath of the Chukchis and gradually they began trading with the Russians

Another reference I found:

http://beforethey.com/tribe/chukchi

one of these pics shows a couple of dogs in a tent with a couple of people - interestingly to me, the dogs coats are much more like Ami's...

Another quote: Well, when Abromovich was the governor of the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, his top managers said there were no forcible arguments for working people to live in the region on the regular basis. He agreed and said, “Let the indigenous people live here…” That’s it. from:http://siberianwonders.com/2011/05/chukchi-people-chukchi-sea-chukotka-nation-of-reindeer-herders-whale-hunters-chukotka-far-east-russia/


I like their philosophy:
“The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven”
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MGoBlue
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Kevin, I can see why you feel the way you feel and it must have been tough to get those emotions out into words.

This is only tangentially related, but you may enjoy reading a book called An Echo Through the Snow by Andrea Thalasinos. It is completely fictional and I'm sure there are many historical inaccuracies, but it is a tale of interwoven stories of a modern girl and her husky parallel to a Chukchi family and their relationship with the dogs. It is an enjoyable story, regardless of it's inaccuracies.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:29 pm

Amy, Thank you for that link. Did you check out the dogs in the other Siberian tribe he went to see?

Kevin, I agree with everyone else. Russian history and it's people has intrigued me most of my life. For the most part the area of the chukchi's was too difficult to get to pre modern day. For the most part the Soviets were able to get to the western area of Siberia, the chukchi's are more eastern. Their way of life has been pretty much the same forever, and many did migrate to our side of the world. The story of the husky is much more than the chukchi, and what our beloved breed is today, it's broken down into several stories. The book Dogs of the world circa 1915 didn't even recognize huskies as a separate breed, and AKC didn't recognize until the 1930's and because of Mr. Seppalla(spelling?), breeding program.

The chukchi's dogs were an important, still are, part of daily life. I always envision them snuggling with the children, keeping them warm and safe during the long, cold winters.
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:00 am

Quote :
Я надеюсь, вы можете найти человека, говорящего по-английски или в состоянии перевести . Если вы можете, пожалуйста, дайте мне знать , чтобы я мог написать вам снова . Ищу охвата поблагодарить свой ​​народ и своих предков за предоставленную нам прекрасный Сибирский хаски собака . Я буду держать это коротким сейчас , пока я не знаю, что вы в состоянии его прочесть . Огромное спасибо за ваш культуры , музыки и ездовых собак . Я использовал английского на русский переводчик , чтобы преобразовать это в Вашем языке . Я надеюсь, что перевод правильный , так что вы можете прочитать это.

Кевин


The above is my "first contact" attempt to reach the Chukchi People. I typed up an email, then translated it from English to Russian. Below is the translation from Russian back to English, as you can see some of it doesn't make sense when translated back:


Quote :
I hope you can find someone who speaks in English or able to translate . If you can , please let me know so that I can write to you again. I am looking for coverage to thank your people and their ancestors for giving us a beautiful Siberian Husky dog. I'll keep it short now, while I do not know what you are able to read it. Many thanks for your culture, music and sled dogs . I used English to Russian translator to convert it to your language . I hope that the translation is correct, so you can read it .

Kevin


So I've been researching nonstop and came across a Chukchi singing ensemble called Ergyron (the people I've contacted with the above message) : http://www.ergyron.ru/ who sing a beautiful Native song called "Nunligran" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf7hyCjqkLQ&hd=1 .

Trailer/excerpt from an 87-minute movie (entire movie is on youtube in 10 parts; I watched the whole thing tonight) about the Chukchi way of life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGSkzzAocSk&hd=1

Here is part 7 of 10 that shows their dogs the most:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyOzx5Sn5cA&hd=1

More video links about the Chukchi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkMPInDcyE8&hd=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZJDenbaDVc&hd=1
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:00 am

I'll update more about my progress when/if I can. I posted this looking for thoughts and ideas, and maybe for support, but then I realized I am passionate and motivated enough about this on my own. I also plan to stop using the internet when I return home in October. My desire is to be with my family and dogs, instead of online posting about them. I'm sure they'd much rather appreciate that too. So I might not be back on here to update everyone. Not sure at this stage. I need to do this for me, and for the Chukchi. I always try to help others, and to thank people deserving of my thanks. That's my mission. It comes from the heart. I can understand if others might not be able to relate. I have to do this for me. This means something very important to me. Thanks for your replies.
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Playing with the Big Dogs
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:45 pm

I really enjoyed reading this post on my lunch break. Cool idea Kevin.
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PostSubject: Re: How can we thank and give back to the Chukchi People for giving us our beloved Siberian Husky breed?   Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:30 am

@Playing with the Big Dogs wrote:
I really enjoyed reading this post on my lunch break. Cool idea Kevin.

Thank you. I haven't given up on this. I'm just preparing to leave Korea this week, so I'm a little distracted. I still listen to the Chukchi song Nunligran daily for inspiration and meditation on their People, Tribe, Culture and Dogs.
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