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 Ugh, the food topic.

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HuskyLovers
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Location : Central Coast of California

PostSubject: Ugh, the food topic.   Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:08 pm

As I mentioned in another post, Phoenix had her first visit with our vet today. The only issue I was left confused about was diet. I have a friend who owns champion Malamutes and she feeds them a grain free diet.

Phoenix came home on Pro Plan Puppy and I was planning to transition her to a grain free diet and told the vet this. She said how grain free products are all a marketing ploy and the grain free products have to have a higher protein content to make up for the missing carbs. She said that because they are omnivores, they still need a good balance of carbs. She also said that when dogs have food allergies, it is generally in the protein, and not to the corn or wheat. She said Pro Plan is an excellent product and recommends we keep her on it.

I found this interesting (read confusing/conflicting with my beliefs) because the grain free I have chosen is only 24% protein. The vet assistant also told us she has Malamutes and after the vet left, I asked her what food she feeds. She was very careful not to contradict the vet, but did admit that she feeds grain free. Another irony is how the vet had grain free treat bags all over the office. LOL.

I'm kind of on the fence now, because Phoenix had really nice poop when we got her. We did begin the transition to grain free and she had some runny poop the next day, but I think that was more from too many special treats the first day, since her poop went back to normal after we stopped the treats.

I am hoping to get some sage advice from you very kind people. I would like to preface this request by saying that I know there are many different opinions on the issue and I respect you all, no matter how your views may differ from one person to the next. Smile
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:36 am

Pro Plan is Purina, right?

Were there Purina posters in the office and in the lobby?

There's that at least for food for thought.

I think your thinking on the runny poop is in all likelihood correct in blaming the new treats, as this is so common and happens all the time.

If you are set on grain free and have researched diets and foods and feel good about it then you should do it.

There's a thread on here about them being omnivores vs carnivores if you want to look it up and read it. This is an interesting example of a confusion about "they will eat" vs "they need to eat" especially from a vet.

I won't tell to trust or not trust a vet or what to feed your new puppy or make any claims about what a dog IS, but for sure, you know in your heart what you want to feed your puppy and you should stick to your guns AND question the motives behind any advice given to you about your puppy.

Also for sure, dogs have survived for 15 years on a lot worse than you will ever feed your puppy. Not to mention, there is always room improvement in any diet for dogs as you learn and grow more with your puppy.

We feed Link a raw diet and I was content to find a vet who didn't proselytize or preach or scorn us, but who at worst was just indifferent and accepted our choice for our completely healthy dog. She once said to me "well we have seen complications with raw diets before", to which I replied "more complications than with grain based kibble?" She nodded quietly and conceded.

Win.

Smile
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:25 pm

My vet has also called the grain free food a useless fad. We were given pro plan when I first got Kenzi. It's a 3 star food according to dogfoodadvisor I think. I switched to grain free anyway and have been happy with it. Kenzi was eating and processing the pro plan fine but going grain free did help with her skin. Her skin is really the only place I saw any difference between the grain free and not.

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HuskyLovers
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:55 pm

Thank you both, Jeff and Jenn. It was interesting, because I didn't see any Purina ads in the office and the vet made it clear that Purina Puppy Chow is terrible, but Pro Plan is good. She also named off 5 or 6 other brands she recommends. Her main thing was just to seriously discourage us from grain free. I'm just going to stick with my original plan, because we transitioned our other pets to grain free recently and they have done really well with it. If she doesn't seem to be thriving, I will rethink it at that time. I appreciate the advice you both gave and will be sure to check out those other threads.
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djannitto
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Location : New England

PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:19 pm

Our puppies parents were raised on Pro Plan. We were given a small bag of Pro Plan Puppy food when we took him home. Discussing his diet was one of our first things we talked about with his vet and she didn't try to sway us either way, but did tell us she uses the same food for her own dogs, and she raises German Shephards. He's almost 3 now, and has never had any issues with it at all. He has no allergies, and his coat is beautiful. I think Jeff is right, when he says dogs have survived on worse. Go with what you are comfortable with!
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HuskyLovers
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:12 am

Thank you, DJ! That's good to know. I should add that our breeder's dogs have done very well on Pro Plan. I appreciate your input. Smile
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japhotos
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:11 pm

I would take the vet's advice with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, in the vet industry a lot of their nutritional training comes from companies like Science Diet and Purina so they tend to be skewed in favor if them when recommending food. In terms of the grain free fade, I guess your vet is partially correct, when it come to the lower quality dog foods out there they usually just replace the rice, corn and wheat with potatoes and sweet potatoes. However the higher quality grain free foods will actually cut down the amount of carbs in favor of a higher meat diet which is, in my opinion, a much better option to feed. Like others have stated on here, you might want to do your own research on validity of your vet saying that dogs are omnivores because there have been a lot of finding recently that show they are in fact much closer to, if not fully, carnivores and do better with a higher or all meat diet. The closest to a non-biased website to do some kibble/raw research that I know of is Dogfoodadvisor.com. I would head over there so you can make an informed decision on what is best for your dog.
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HuskyLovers
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:00 pm

Thank you, Josh. I appreciate your input. So much to consider.
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DarkDiamond
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Location : Iowa

PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:48 am

I've been really happy with Dr. Tim's dry foods. They are five star rated on dogfoodadvisor, and Wolf seems to be doing well on it. Another plus, if you have questions, Dr. Tim himself gives prompt and polite answers.

This is what I feed:
http://www.chewy.com/dog/dr-tims-pursuit-active-dog-formula/dp/52929
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jmscott
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:28 pm

When it comes to the topic of grains and veggies, most of the time I see people taken in on the notion that wolves get their grains and vegetables from the stomach of their prey. Anyone who has ever seen a full carcass meal fed can tell you that the stomach, if eaten at all, is shaken clean of its contents. Further more, when did you last see a wild deer getting a hold of enough grains and vegetables to contribute an amount significant enough to have it considered a mainstay of the diet of the carnivore chowing down on it?
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Ugh, the food topic.   Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:40 pm

I don't teust big name companies like Purina, Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba, and at this point even Blue Buffalo. If I ever fed kibble again it would be a rotation of Taste of The Wild, Annamaet (grain free), Acana, Orijen, and very few other kibbles.

That being said, we feed raw. It was an easy choice for us and I think the best one we have ever made. Our dogs are healthier, happier, and have more energy (and less poop!).
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