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 A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.

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AMB
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PostSubject: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:59 pm

So I've wanted to get Yukon both of these harnesses for awhile now. Both of them are much higher quality harnesses than what he currently has, and both are suited for different purposes from what I understand (Ruffwear's harness is more for general use and hiking while X-back is for pulling activities). I do have some questions about sizing though for anyone who's owned either of these products before.

I measured Yukon's girth and it was around 23-24 in. According to Ruffwear's site that would make him a small (22-27 in) however I'm wondering if maybe I should get him a Medium (27-32 in) instead? I'm worried that he may fill out and end up outgrowing the smaller size, however if I get him the medium size it might not fit upon arrival. So I would like to know which one you guys got for your dog and how well did it fit?

The second question is about the X-back harness. I've read that people have to sometimes return them and order another one because the size was wrong. So basically I'm looking for general information on that. What do I need to measure/what custom options should I go for? Also is there anything I should be cautious about when ordering?

Thanks in advance for the help! Smile
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simplify
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:06 am

The biggest thing with the x-back is measure once, measure twice, measure a third time (and maybe even a forth). If you have anyone around you or a demo that you could bring him to to get a professional to help measure him that would be the best option for you. Most of the vendor sites have measuring guides and you can look up some videos on Youtube for how to measure the dog. I got reflective tape on Mishka's but other than that the x-backs are pretty plain. Some you can get their name or a phone number stitched on and some also have the option for a belly band which I think is mostly for backing out.

I find the Ruffwear harnesses run a little big, so you may be better off getting the small. If he gains 3 inches or so that seems like a lot in girth. I got the medium for Mishka and I found I had to tighten it a lot.

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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:24 am

I am probably going to order the X-back harness with reflective tape, his name, and the belly button band. I'm not exactly sure if he would qualify for a "split-chest" design or the "oversize upgrade" though. Are the custom X-back harnesses adjustable at all? Either way I suppose I have some measuring to do. Razz

Ruffwear runs large eh? I might go with small in that case. I just hope he doesn't outgrow it at all... D:

Thanks for the response!
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:38 am

Aidan, I have never used a pack with my sibe so I have no experience with the Ruffwear Palisades pack. However, I do have the Ruffwear Omnijore harness (which I love). While I don't remember my boys girth measurement (what I do know is that he's 22" tall and weight fluctuates from 50-55 lbs although 50 lbs is his ideal), I followed the sizing guide on Ruffwear's website and ended up ordering him a size medium. I think he must have been right on the border between a size small and medium so I believe I opted to order up rather than down. I have his Omnijore harness adjusted to the smallest that it can go and while it fits well enough to work, I think he could probably have a better fit in the small versus the medium size. That's just my two cents based on my experience with the medium Ruffwear Omnijore harness.

I have a custom x-back harness from Alpine Outfitters. Regardless of who you order yours from, they should have detailed measuring instructions with diagram(s) to help you measure correctly the first time. I had no trouble measuring and ordering the correct size for my boy the first time. There are a few options you can add onto your custom x-back depending on where you buy yours, all of which I personally think are up to the person ordering...what they want/prefer, how they will be using it, etc. Since I ordered mine from Alpine, I got my sibes name embroidered on his x-back (there's no charge for it) and I also ordered a belly band to go with it since I wanted the added peace of mind that he wouldn't be able to back out of his x-back. I had/have no intention of using the x-back at night so I did not get any reflective tape added. Now I will say that Dakota HATED the belly band from day 1 and on so that add on ended up being a complete waste. Knowing now how much he hates the belly band, if I had it to do all over again I would have just gotten the x-back, no belly band. My boy does just fine in the x-back alone and the belly band has never really been needed so I just leave it off and it has just been collecting dust. I know why he hates the belly band and I can't say that I blame him, too close to his manhood for comfort. lol Oh and as far as measuring, I had my hubby help by holding Dakota in a relaxed standing (straight) position. Then I took a tape measure and measured him 4 separate times total in each section to ensure I got his measurements correct. Yep, I quadruple checked my measurements and his custom harness fit him perfectly.

The custom x-back (at least the one from Alpine) is not adjustable. They didn't have the split chest or oversize options when I ordered mine 6 years ago but I don't think you will need either option assuming your sibe is normal sized, which I'm sure he is.

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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:05 am

Thanks for the info!

I'm actually planning on ordering my harness from alpine outfitters too, so I guess the Split-chest and oversize options must be new then. If the belly band is removable I'll probably still get it. It's only a $3 add-on and I could always take it off if Yukon hates it. The measurements are going to have to be pretty accurate if I can't adjust the size; so in that case I'm going to ask my sister to help me measure him since he's going pretty crazy right now. If the X-back harness isn't adjustable, does that mean he can outgrow it since he hasn't filled out yet?

If Ruffwear really does size up like that I'll order the small size then, it will be good for awhile at least anyways.
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:16 am

Yukon is over a year old already, I am sure he's not going to fill out to the point that his x-back would no longer fit him. My boy is 50 lbs at his ideal weight yet he's gone up to 60 lbs (twice) over the years and never had any issues fitting in his harness. I think you'll be fine ordering now.

I would order the small Ruffwear pack. It will probably fit him longer than you think.

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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:20 am

Forgot to say that yes, the belly band is removable. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:34 am

Last time I weighed Yukon he was around 35 lbs, so he still has to grow another 15 lbs or so. I suppose he probably wont get too much taller though as he's already approaching the breed limit for height.

Our results from measuring him also varied too much, so I'm going to ask the vet to measure him tomorrow when I get him weighed again.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:22 am

In terms of the pack, I would definitely say go with the small. I can't remember his girth, but Bode is around 47# and we have to cinch the Medium pack all the way down which can be a pain due to comfort wraps around the straps and having to force them over the plastic of the straps.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:08 am

I am not sure, but Jen might still have her small for sale. I bought her medium and I love it! She is selling them for half of what you would get them from Ruff Wear.

It doesn't have the Palisades attachment though... so if you wanted that then you would have to get the other one that has the pack clips on it. I am probably going to get one in the future... but I am in love with the one that I got from her. Dizzy has good hand-me-downs! lol
http://www.itsahuskything.com/t13622-for-sale-ruffwear-web-master-harness-size-small-30-free-shipping

Here is a shot of Okami wearing the Medium:



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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:10 pm

i would do the small pack, sierra at 45-47lb is the small, jack at 57-62lb is a med and i still have it tight around his neck but not so much the girth, he is wide in the chest. i also like the larger pack sz for him, the small saddle bags are much smaller, but still hold a lot.

for the X back my 2 have outgrown 2 sets of them Sad i have not ordered new sets but im thinking about it.

from either
http://stores.adanacsleds.com/harnesses/
http://www.blackicedogsledding.com/category-s/1820.htm

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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:56 pm

Okay so from the looks of it I'm going to get the small pack. There's a possibility that Yukon can still outgrow it; but even if he does then at least I'll have an extra lying around for in case I ever get another dog. (Gotta always think 10 years ahead, lol.)

I'm also going to get measurements from the vet today and ask for their input on the matter. I'm not as worried about the X-back harness anymore either, because it's a lot cheaper to order another one of those if he outgrows them.

Thank you everyone for the responses, it has helped me out with my decisions a lot! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:52 pm

Aidan, I wonder if you end up having to upgrade to a M if the pack on the small would clip into the clips on the M. If so, then you could upgrade to just the harness without the pack, which would be half the price.

It would depend on the length of the space between the clips, which aren't necessarily different on a S and a M. Sizing might just mean different strapping, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, just something to consider.

For the record, Link wears a M in the Ruffwear stuff and on the Webmaster harness he is just about maxed out, but only in the rib cage girth strap.

I also just ordered his custom X back as well, which I am super excited about.

Any Ruffwear stuff is a solid, reliable investment. You're gonna love it.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:46 am

I would highly recommend the WolfPacks. They have stood up to some incredibly rugged terrain. Most Sibes wear a Small.
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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:43 am

@seattlesibe wrote:
Aidan, I wonder if you end up having to upgrade to a M if the pack on the small would clip into the clips on the M. If so, then you could upgrade to just the harness without the pack, which would be half the price.

It would depend on the length of the space between the clips, which aren't necessarily different on a S and a M. Sizing might just mean different strapping, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, just something to consider.

For the record, Link wears a M in the Ruffwear stuff and on the Webmaster harness he is just about maxed out, but only in the rib cage girth strap.

I also just ordered his custom X back as well, which I am super excited about.

Any Ruffwear stuff is a solid, reliable investment. You're gonna love it.

That is a pretty interesting question, I'll have to look into it more then as a discounted harness would be awesome! Ruffwear is pretty reliable and I like their products a lot.



@jmscott wrote:
I would highly recommend the WolfPacks. They have stood up to some incredibly rugged terrain. Most Sibes wear a Small.

That looks like a pretty interesting harness, that maybe sbe something to look into for the future!

In other news the vet couldn't seem to get accurate measurements either for the X-back. So now I guess I'm gonna have to call them because no one in our family can seem to get the same measurements. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:51 pm

The WolfPacks don't use a harness. But even on steep and near verticle terrain we have yet to see them slide forward. For harnesses, during one of our mushing events we measured dogs for Alpine Outfitters harnesses and the measurements were all correct for those who went ahead and bought them.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:17 pm

I like this graphic for showing where to measure from on the dogs, hope it helps!

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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:35 pm

Mods get permission or whatever needs to be done and then make this a sticky of the chart please!

Might be helpful
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:41 pm

Second that, mate.
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AMB
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:20 pm

Yeah, that's a pretty solid chart! I'm going to try retaking the measurements using the chart as a reference, with any luck I'll get more consistent results...
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:34 pm

CanaDog sleddogs has a pretty nice video series on fitting the harnesses also.

Part I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXixGfqqoo
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PostSubject: Re: A question about Palisades and X-back harnesses.    Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:01 pm

I have the Approach pack for Bourbon and I got the last years model so big discount he measures 27 and that is the largest size for small and the smallest for medium at1.5 yo. He still measures the same. I have it opened all the way out on the small and it is not too tight. I would go with small.
Check out wolf packs, blackicesleddogs also.

X-back I have an alpine and Bourbon has never tried to back out. I do use the neckline to clip him to his collar and x back when not clipped to another dog.

The web has some great instructional measurements and if you can go to a vendor event ir mush event I bet you could get some help measuring!

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