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 Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away

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cosmothunder
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Female Join date : 2014-10-10
Location : Bear Delaware

PostSubject: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:39 pm

So with all the other posts I've had I've been working with giving space and leaving her alone unless she asks for some good attention. Well today she found a chew stick I was saving. I was cleaning and I guess I put it in a reachable spot. Well I noticed she was chewing it so I casually walked up to take it and she tensed up, covered it and showed teeth. Now I know it's typical if she doesn't want me to take it but will it ever stop? For the past week I've been giving her space and it's been so great for her and me but is there anyway to help with this? Should I of brought over a different treat and traded her?

Yes I already know I've prob asked this and I know you guys are prob getting tired of my many questions lol
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:07 pm

I would trade her. Give her a toy or something, Engage her in play to pull her away from it. Guarding and not wanting someone to take something away isn't just a phase, it's an instinct. No one wants something to be taken away and it won't just stop on its own. You have to show her that nothing is ever gone forever, or that better things come when she is willing to let go. Chews are the hardest to get them to let go of. My girl even has a hard time letting those go, but it is possible with coaxing and another goodie. I find keeping my voice light and playful helps ease the I-taking-your-stuff discomfort when I'm wanting her to be interested in something else.

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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:10 pm

Okay yeah I gave it back and traded a snap treat for it. She didn't even care in a way ya know. I realized as I was posting this what I should have done but it's good for me to hear others stories so I know I'm not the only one ha
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:23 pm

I second Jenn's suggestion. I also will remind you on the "drop it" "leave it" command, it is imperative to teach this in a firm tone(no yelling or acting scared/hyper/anxious, etc), I can not stress to you the importance of those 2 commands in a situation where trading or treats are unavailable, and using redirection as Jenn said engage in another activity away from the item you don't want her to have.

An example of the importance....Miya found a dead mouse and picked it up, I immediately told her to drop it and leave it, I then did my go to recall (stressed situation recall), "Miya let's go", she dropped it, left it alone, and immediately was by my side.

Like Jenn said you will never teach this out of your dog as far as possession is concerned, however, controlling the situation will be a possible life saver. Btw, I control things like Jenn in house, happy, playful, and trading. But since Bandit is still young, teaching commands in house as well as outside will benefit her, so you have to size up the situation, if it's a chew inside be happy and exchange for another treat. If inside and she has something that is not hers to have use the drop it.

Ask as many question as you need to Tony, even if it's a question you already asked.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:44 am

Tony, at this rate it will not just go away. It certainly isn't a phase--aggression is never a phase. It's a state of mind.

How did you react to her showing teeth and covering the stick? What did you immediately do?

You can trade her, yes, but this does not address the aggression. A redirection avoids the problem, it never addresses it directly.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:07 am

How do I address the problem?
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:14 am

Jeff, may I ask, because at times things can be implied, as in controlling the situation, that a slippery slope can come of this? As in it can be implied that controlling the situations leads to the whole dominance issue that was brought up before? I apologize Tony if I indeed implied this, controlling the situation through calm measures is what I was pointing out.

I really wish you had a video that clearly showed her growling and showing teeth, there are so many different body signals, that to a new dog owner, let alone a new husky owner may misinterpret. I seriously want to see her reaction. I did see her other video with her intentionally turning away from you, however, it isn't a tale tell sign of aggression.

I also agree Jeff that redirection and trading is not the answer if indeed Bandit is aggressive. For a new owner to describe a situation, can be way worse than what really is. Is her hair standing up, is she actually growling and not just fussing with you, is she baring teeth in a violent way? Huskies can display aggression, when indeed it may not be full blown problem.......I don't want to say this, and I've mentioned before, if Tony you clearly believe she is aggressive, then I would suggest bringing in a behaviorist or a solid "nothing in Life is free" or "positive Rewards" based trainers in to help you and Bandit. Once she has reached maturity, to teach out aggressive behavior will turn much more difficult than now when she is still a puppy. At 8 months you are on the edge, I am not saying that you will never correct the problem, however the younger she is the more successful you will be, the more receptive she will be. Can you have someone video this so we can see how she displays her aggression?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:02 am

Renee, everything you say is true. No doubt.

The lesson to be learned is that depending on the reaction of Tony in the very moment that Bandit shows teeth and exhibits aggression, he is either training her to be aggressive or discouraging her to be aggressive. Since this is a continual pattern being show by Bandit, it is the former: he is training her to be aggressive. Training is simply learned behavior that gets results through repetition.

This is such a sensitive subject and situation that I am very hesitant to type out a prescription of what can be done here. I know exactly what any behaviorist or trainer would do. It's just that conveying this--and with Renee's point of the possibility of misinterpretation of what is going on--online is problematic.

To boil it down simply and non-controversially Tony, you just don't allow her showing of teeth to alter your goal or your behavior. Period.

If I were you I would search for videos on Youtube for what to do, or, have a non-food based trainer come into your home and guide you step by step. Non-food based because Bandit needs boundaries and limitations and frankly, to be put in her place by somebody capable of being a trusted leader. Importantly, this is not coming from a dominance-based ideology of dog training.

The good news is that she is young and impressionable right now. The bad news is that she is young and impressionable right now. YOU need to make an adjustment and change the course of action right now to determine the path she takes ongoing into adulthood. I really think you need an in-person consultation Tony, in all honesty.

You need somebody to give you nuts and bolts and nitty gritty info as to how to deal with Bandit's issues. Communicating this stuff online is so troublesome.

Please, get some help with Bandit and with your mindset as to how to approach her.

Huskies are extremely self-confident and assertive and it is effortless for them to take the upper hand in a relationship. You will benefit greatly from some in person, one on one coaching.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:20 am

Jeff, It is a sensitive subject, you said what I wanted to say, that perhaps Tony was teaching  aggression in Bandit.

Tony the two of us have both suggested to seek help in person rather than here, that is not to say that you can not continue asking questions, sharing your videos, and relaying progress. You have a very beautiful husky, and I have seen too many huskies get out of control by poor teaching on the owners part through not understanding the breed. I personally commend you for coming here and asking your questions. Too often people will not, and too often a beautiful husky like Bandit ends up in a rescue or shelter, or worse. Please seek out the help we have suggested to you, I want to enjoy seeing pics and videos of Bandit as she grows. More importantly I want you to be able to enjoy your husky as your companion, and hopefully like me, and many of us here, enjoy your best friend.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:27 am

Well said Renee, thank you.

This is absolutely a case of the seeds of an aggressive, dangerously reactive dog being planted right now and an in-person session with a proper trainer is needed.

I think this goes beyond the scope of online consultation.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:33 am

Well, I hate to share this but found out a friend, using that loosely now, was abusing her when she was being watched. I think this is where her aggression is coming from. I really don't want to get into it right now but yeah would you guys agree? I thought She was just happy to see me when I'd pick her up but I kind of see why. I really feel like this is might be the root of aggression honestly. I don't know about dogs but I feel this might of been the problem all along. Do you agree?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:56 am

Tony,

 I'm sorry to hear this.  

But, taking stock...

This further complicates your case with Bandit.  This further complicates the issue of reinforcing her state of mind at the wrong times with affection and compassion.  This further complicates the issue of her receiving mixed signals from the people in her life.  This further complicates your margin for error with dealing with Bandit's blossoming aggression.  

Please, seek some in person help and be very candid and frank in describing the entire situation with the trainer.  

The absolute worst thing you can do for Bandit right now is show her affection or compassion when she shows aggression.  You need to be trained in person how to deal with this.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:32 am

Tony, I'm so sorry as well, and I totally agree with Jeff, continue with what was suggested and tell this person everything. Tell this person your routine, how you work with Bandit and the situation with her perceived aggression. You and Bandit need help in reshaping her behavior, but also in how to care for her properly.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:40 pm

I'm going to look into it for sure. For now I'm gonna try to keep an eye on here and see where things go. Pulling the abuse away from her should help. Ugh what a great way to start a new year
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:13 am

Good approach Tony.

Remember, they don't hold onto the past like we do. You can help her move on right now with your continued work on being the stability she needs.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:51 am

Yup yup. Woke up to her trying to eat my bed lol I was like really? A bed? Is it that good? Do you need some ketchup!?
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:42 pm

Okay update, been a little better. Put half the food in the bowl then add the rest after she eats a bit and is fine with me approaching and dropping food. Well today I gave her an Apple, first time. She liked it. As I was holding it and feeding it from my hand she was nervous??? I tried to pet her a bit saying good girl and she bowed her head down while still standing in front of me and teeth were showing?.... So I put the Apple up and I'm sitting on the couch and she is sitting at her food bowl. Did I do the right thing? Stopped showing attention and giving her the food when she showed teeth??? It was going okay until I touched her, maybe it wasn't the best idea but I wanted to see what I could get away with ya know. So am I fight or wrong
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:46 pm

So yeah now she is just sleeping over there? Is she just waiting for me to try to feed her again?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:00 pm

No, you did not do the right thing. Never, ever give your dog affection when she is nervous or scared of you. You are telling her that it is acceptable to be nervous and supporting her state of mind.

Tony, you need to tread very carefully here. You are creating a very unstable, insecure dog and putting yourself at danger of being bitten over and over again.

Why are you giving her apples? You are not going to bond with her by bribing her with human food. You are just giving her more tension and anxiety.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:02 pm

There is no meaning behind sleeping. Sleeping is just sleeping. These episodes you are having with her are probably exhausting for her due to all of the stress being built.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Well here's the thing I gave part of an Apple as a reward for being good on a walk. She was fine with eating from my hand until I pet her so I stopped letting her have the Apple and walked away
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:15 pm

Sorry for all the updates but now she is back to normal. Laying on me chewing a toy in my face. This pup I don't get it
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:19 pm

Giving her an apple at home for being good on a walk outside does nothing to reward her for being good on a walk outside.

Her walking well with you in harmony is her reward. It relieves stress and relaxes her mind. Just calmly acknowledge her good behavior while walking.

Rewards and corrections work like snapshots with a camera. There will be no connection between the apple and the walk.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:20 pm

Okay so what should I do if I'm feeding her and then she gets and like shows teeth?stop the feeding and walk away? That shows if she does that she doesn't get the food?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:09 pm

Leverage her hunger and use it to create relaxation.

Is she excited, anxious, antsy, pushy when you feed her? I'm assuming, yes, she is.

You wait and wait and wait and wait for her to relax, give up , and surrender her excitement and be calm. Once she is calm , then you feed her.

If you feed her when she is excited, anxious, pushy, aggressive, antsy, etc. then you are training her to be that way and reinforcing that state of mind in relation to you.

You have a very stressed dog and she needs to learn to relax her mind and be calm. If she doesn't relax when you are feeding her, then stop and walk away. Don't feed her. I would sit on the floor with her food and wait up to 20 minutes and then quit. She doesn't eat.

Next meal time, start over. She will get it.

It seems counterintuitive, but you have to push her with boundaries to get her over this stress, not give in and make her feel good with food and affection.
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