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 Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away

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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:12 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKiV9E1V05I
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:24 pm

Hmmm I can do this with commands very easily. She knows stay very well. For food or when I come home. I do not let her out of the crate until she is calm. I tell her stay and open the door. Wait a few mins till she is calm. Same with food I've had her stay for a few mins. I haven't tried it like this where She figures it out on her own. So I will try this over the next few days and see what happens
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:27 pm

Perfect.

Just make sure her mind is calm. A Down Stay with an excited, anxious mind is still excitement and anxiety.

It doesn't matter if she is standing or sitting or down. It's not the position, it's the state of mind. Anxiety and stress live in the mind.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:28 pm

Okay no should I interrupt the feeding like he did and make her do it again?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:33 pm

With your dog, no.  Just let her be.   He was just demonstrating how safe the dog is.  

Your dog shows signs of aggression and guarding and you should not attempt that until she trusts you and not stressed by you.

From what you post you are coming very close to getting bitten.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:37 pm

I don't think she will bite me
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:47 pm

Well to be frank Tony, you don't seem to be a very good judge of your dog's behavior or state of mind. You don't seem to have a very good grasp of what you are doing with Bandit.

I would be very careful. And as you've been advised multiple times by at least 3 people on here, seek out in person professional help.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:54 pm

She knows not to bite me, when she was little when she would nip me I'd nip her ear. She knows
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:43 pm

Okay, Tony, this is one of my very direct - to the point messages - You're playing with fire and if you keep it up either you or Bandit are going to get badly burnt!

BTW, Jeff, I was referring to *my* being direct, not you ...

Tony, living with a dog is a matter of mutual respect. I think I've said this before but you come across as one who must dominate the situation and Bandit has pretty plainly told you that she isn't impressed. For the few days that you let her "do her thing" it seems as if she was happier and it also seems as if you were as well.

Your last comment that she won't bite you - don't make book on that because if you push her hard enough, long enough she will do what she has to do to protect herself.

I have a dog who was on the streets for a while and what her life before that was like seems to have been bad. She's now bitten me 5 times (alright, four of those were my own fault) because I wanted her to be something she isn't. She's not a lap dog, she's not an outgoing dog, she's very much her own person ( "person" is intended, she's an intelligent being in her own right, in that she is a person! ) Over time she's gotten more trusting, but I still - three years on - can't just reach down and take something from her. I can normally swap for a treat but when push comes to shove she still doesn't trust me enough to just let me take something she views as hers.

If you have to prove that *you're* in absolute control (and my impression is that this is how you think) then do her a big favour and let someone else have her because the way you're going she's going to end up getting put down for reasons that are way beyond her control.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:23 pm

I read this dialogue last night and walked away, because I would have said something that wouldn't be nice. Since I think Jeff was referring to himself, Al and me, as in the three people asking you, Tony, to please seek help in training Bandit, I will now say what's on my mind.

Tony, do not underestimate a dog, when push comes to shove as Jeff and Al have said, Bandit will bite you, and God forbid she may bite someone else, either case only bad things will happen to Bandit. She is a lovely husky, and I can't stomach the thought that yet another husky will end up in a rescue (at best) or put down because of instigated biting issues.

I watched the video Jeff put up for you, it was a great video on teaching a dog to have patience and be calm prior to eating. What I find so frustrating is that you have asked for help, you have received  excellent advice, and none of the advice is taken. You make up excuses, you divert the question, and you do not try and follow up on any suggestions. And then continue to ask the same question as if the answer will some how be different. It will not be different. I don't understand your reluctance to calling in some one to help you. It is not failure that you have to have help, it is a failure when your dog bites you or she has to be rehomed or she has to be put down. You need to take a step back and realize, you are no longer in control, and controlling Bandit and being Dominate over Bandit has created the problem you are now in.

The three of us (me, Al and Jeff), come from different areas as far as training dogs and also on how we have acquired our dogs, however, all 3 of us have given you feedback, support and suggestions that are all similar. If 3 people suggest the same thing, then you must realize "you" not Bandit has the problem. You need to correct your problem. Biting her ear, btw, is not a guarantee that she will never bite you, on the contrary, it will only induce the desire in her to bite back.

I wish you and Bandit luck, I really hope that you two can form a wonderful bond, but with out the help that we have suggested, I don't believe that will ever happen.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:28 pm

I'm not trying to prove anything. All I'm trying to figure out is where her aggression comes from and what should I do when she shows it? Walk away? Lock her up? Ignore her? Tell her no? That's all I'm trying to figure out. I generally leave her alone to do her own thing most of the time. I did the exercise with her. The bowl one. Took about 10mins.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:32 pm

@cosmothunder wrote:
I'm not trying to prove anything. All I'm trying to figure out is where her aggression comes from and what should I do when she shows it? Walk away? Lock her up? Ignore her? Tell her no? That's all I'm trying to figure out. I generally leave her alone to do her own thing most of the time. I did the exercise with her. The bowl one. Took about 10mins.

This is by far your biggest misconception and your biggest misunderstanding of your dog....and your very hard headed inability to listen to what people are telling you.


Bandit is not an aggressive dog, in any way, shape, or form. Bandit is a very anxious, nervous, frustrated dog. There very few truly aggressive dogs in the world, very few. There are tons of anxious, nervous, and frustrated dogs in the world, tons.

Most "aggression" in dogs is caused by anxiety, frustration, and nervousness. If Bandit bites you, or when she bites you, as she has been warning for months now, it will not be due to aggression. It will be due to her frustration and anxiety with you.

When you mention that Bandit is playfully hanging out next to you chewing a bone and relaxed, that is the true Bandit. She is not aggressive. Aggressive dogs do not do that. All of the other stuff you describe and inquire about, that is all anxiety and frustration and nervousness and this is what is escalating and escalating and you are in the process of training and creating and unstable, unpredictable dog who does not trust you or respect you.

You teaching her not to mouth you as a puppy has nothing whatsoever to do with her state of mind now and the danger of you getting bitten. Not a single thing. Mouthing is not aggression and it is not biting.

Mouthing is normal, social behavior. Biting is lashing out aggressively due to an unhealthy state of mind.

I wish you could wrap your head around that.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:38 pm

I don't think I'm creating an unstable environment. I can't see how. I'm nothing but nice to her. Sometimes she just acts weird and gets pissed off at me.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:02 pm

I just happened to be perusing the site while I had some down time at work and came across this thread. Al, Renee and Jeff, you've really given excellent feedback here.

I'd just like to share some of my own experiences as a first time Husky puppy owner for perspective with Tony.

My husband and I decided to get our puppy 3 years ago. We decided on a husky because it was a dog breed that my husband always wanted. We knew about many of their unique ways, and did a lot of research before going with a breeder. We set up a trainer and puppy classes before we took our puppy home. We are very responsible pet owners and thought we were doing everything we could for our little guy. But, I don't think the books and research can really prepare a first time puppy and first time husky owner for the nature of this breed. We struggled fiercely the first year, and I can honestly say, I cried so many tears over feelings of inadequecy, frustration and anger at times. We reached out on this forum many times, and always received excellent advice. Luckily we also had a personal trainer for our puppy who came to our home on occasion for private visits. We thought that supplemented with the classes would do the trick. At first it seemed as though it did. Our puppy new all his commands and was excellent. But at around 5-6 months old he started jumping up at me on walks and biting my arm. He ripped my jacket on one of these bratty tantrums, and always left bruises. There was almost nothing that would make him stop. He never showed me his teeth, and he never growled when doing this. He basically was being a total brat because he didn't get his way. Whether it was the direction the walk was going in or that he couldn't cross the street to meet another dog walking by. Nonetheless, it was very unnerving, especially because this always happened when I was walking him alone. Our trainer told us to start handfeeding him all his meals. We did and things settled down for a long time, until a few months later he started the same behavior again. Once again we started handfeeding again, and once again, he settled down. Then just after he turned a year, he did it to me one last time. That was the straw that broke the camels back. We had already been talking about sending him to a board/train kennel with e-collar training. I know it's not the popular direction to take on this site, but my husband and I felt that we had to do this in order to protect our puppy from ever biting someone else and ending up euthanized. It was very costly, and the money quite frankly could have been better used, but we made a lifetime commitment to Qannik and were willing to do whatever it took. That was almost 2 years ago. Qannik did well with the training and at this point we don't use the collar any longer, and he is the sweetest gentlest dog. He is the heart of our family. We don't have children, so to us he is our child.

I really feel for Tony because I feel like there was a part of me that walked in his shoes. I would never try to give advice like the other three, as I just don't feel I have that indepth understanding, but I would strongly urge you to take their advice to heart. The last thing you want is for the dog you love to bite you or someone else.

Best of luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:13 pm

Tony, as you may or may not know Bandit is entering her teenage phase of her life, this is the time that most husky owners say is difficult. Since you have had issues with her as a pup, I'm for now skipping the whole it's you not her thing, you will start to see a change in her yet again. This is the time where her confusion, frustration, anxiety, nervousness will come out in other ways than the mere snarling or growling. I hope Jeff doesn't mind me mentioning this, but he gave me some research sites, so I can empower my mind, I enjoy reading and learning, so in no way did I "need" the info, but I found a place kind of near you that you need to look up and contact, it is solidk9training.com, they are in Rhode Island, and will travel, please look up their site, I did some of the hard work for you. Pick up the phone or e-mail them and I'm sure they can help you and Bandit get on track.

DJ, I'm glad that someone else jumped on and at least gave a fourth person to give a similar suggestion. Tony solidk9training also does the board and train, please contact them, they can help you way more than any of us here on this forum can, it is way too difficult on a forum where we can not see nor hands on help you, they can.....
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:32 pm

We used K9 Instincts, also of Rhode Island, for our board to train program. They came very highly recommended. I'm not suggesting its for everyone, but it worked for us, and we have had the best relationship with out dog ever since.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:14 pm

Jeff Gellman at Solidk9training will be the best investment you ever made, period.

I never noticed your location Tony prior to just now. I would have made that specific recommendation to you months ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:20 pm

Nice, thanks for other recommendation djannitto.   There's 2 specific trainers in your area, Tony.

What's their approach at K9 Instincts?  

Solidk9training is Real World, Balance based training that prioritizes calmness at home above anything else in the world.  It is state of mind training, not Sit, Down, excitement training.  They do not use food at all but use calm acknowledgment in balance with corrections and behavior shaping.

I am trying to attend a Train The Trainer seminar there this spring.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:06 am

Jeff, check out their website at K9Instincts.com. I'm from RI, and have lived here my whole life. I never heard of Jeff Gellman before you mentioned him in your post. Matt Betts, owner/trainer of K9 Instincts came highly recommended from multiple sources. Probably because referrals came from people who live in the same County or general area of the state that I do. We paid $500 per week for a two week board-to-train program, plus the cost of the collar and remote. Add tax and we paid around $1,350.00 for Qannik's program.

I'm sure Jeff Gellman is excellent too. I'm interested in learning more about him, although I'm hoping I'm well beyond needing any specialized training for my puppy! LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:11 am

Sounds good, and a great bargain for board and train.

Jeff Gellman works with all dogs with emphasis on aggressive, insecure, or hyper dogs.

Dogs like Bandit.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:31 am

Our trainer told us from our evaluation, that he doesn't believe in breed specific training. He said all dogs no matter what breed have the ability to be trained to be well adjusted and behaved members of your family. I can honestly say, our decision to send Q was the best decision we ever made. Unfortunately, as first time dog/husky owners, we were very nervous, anxious and stressed about everything. The bottom line is that we wanted to do right by our puppy, but we were like fish out of water. In hindsight we can see how those emotions created a bit of a monster for our puppy. He in turn became anxious and stressed out. Now we are all settled into an awesome existence together. He is the love of our lives.



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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:49 am

Ahhhhhhhh,  I'm so glad you said that, thank you.

I feel the same way and always have. I don't think we can discount breed specific needs, drives, or specifics wholesale. .....training a Husky required a different approach than training a gun dog........but I don't think breed should dictate expectations,  either.

If Link were a GSD given the type of work I've put into him it would have taken me half the time.   But it is possible to get a Husky to be like the proverbial GSD that every good dog trainer owns, your approach just has to be modified and very strict.   Huskies are not
nearly as sensitive to corrections, for example.

That said fewer people should own Huskies, it seems.
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PostSubject: Re: Afraid I'm. going to take stuff away   Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:28 pm

You should start a new thread for this discussion, dj Smile
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