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 Hand feeding going well?

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cosmothunder
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Location : Bear Delaware

PostSubject: Hand feeding going well?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:03 pm

So as a lot of you probably already know Bandit is a handful for me. Well I started going this a few days ago and so far it's going pretty well. I have seen a decent amount in change in her overall after doing this. I can even get a pet in while eating without having teeth shown, grunting or even just so tense and frozen in place. I really feel like this is progress to deal with her weiAm I doing a good job at this hand feeding? Decided to video tonight's feeding and I think it went well. I recorded one segment and decided to record the rest of it

Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8k7KkVWbIc

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0j64zinGd8
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:17 pm

Tony that looks so good! Excellent work. You are doing great.

I love her body language and her patience. She is totally calm and relaxed and polite. Very good pace and timing on your part, and very good corrections and patience on your part.

The fact that you are petting her now with food present is so good. I really love her restraint and her eye contact with you.

You should feel very good about your progress.

Keep it up.

Banidit's energy in these videos is exactly what you want Smile
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:31 pm

You were really calm and streamlined in your energy. That was the key. She mirrored you perfectly.

I'm so happy for your progress.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:43 pm

Tony, I have to agree with Jeff that was excellent. Even in the second bid where she tried to jump the gun, you calmness came through for both of you.
Thanks much for the bid, it really helps to hear your voice as you're interacting with her and to be able to see her reaction.
I hate this tablet correcting me ... That should have been VID not bid!!
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:45 pm

Those videos are the post of the year, so far.
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cosmothunder
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Location : Bear Delaware

PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:49 pm

Okay I wish I had video but I tried more petting and it was going okay but she did that thing with her neck all stretched out and she was stiff as a board. Last little bit of food I got my face close to hers with the food and she showed teeth. I immediately pulled back, dumped the food in the bowl and looked away. I ignored her for a min then went back in doing the same thing. She was stiff as a board and ears flat but no teeth shown so I let her have the food. I'm assuming stiffness and flat ears mean she doesn't like it. Should I back off on petting and getting close? Would that be stressing her out or just keep at it?
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:01 pm

Tony, Tony, Tony ... when you moved your face into the area where her food is - even if it's in your hand - she's not going to like it. How'd you feel if you had a good thick Black Angus steak and your best friend started drooling over it?? Yeh, well, that's about how she felt.

You are doing really well with the hand feeding, but you need to take baby steps. The fact that she's letting you pet her while you're feeding her is great. In my mind the next move ( and this is what I've done with Sasha ) would be to hold her food bowl in your hand; add a little food to it; let her eat and then take the bowl back and add a little more. (( BTW, I've done this with me setting on the floor and in my chair, keeping it mixed up a little. )) Then start adding some to her bowl as she's eating ... but with me and Sasha that's been a couple of months progressing slowly and safely.

While Jeff will probably disagree ( teasing, I think Smile ) my object is to get her ( in my case Sasha ) to the point that she's not overly concerned that I'm going to permanently take it away from her.

Even though she's been really good about setting and waiting till I release her to eat, and not getting upset if I move around her or the bowl, I still occasionally will hold the bowl for her.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:05 pm

I gotcha, will she ever not mind my face in hers? Though I won't do it again. I fill her bowl and scoop my hand in there and take the food out. She's been so good with that. Just sitting and waiting for me to let her have the food. So you think the stiffness and ears flattening is her being stressed or pissed off?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:37 pm

Yes, that is right.

Hard to say if she will ever accept your face in hers while she eats. That's a very uncommon thing for a dog to have happen.

Even with my dog and our relationship, he'd probably be confused, although he wouldn't growl or show teeth, he'd probably just eat faster is all.

Maybe she is just confused about your intention.

Al said it right, Tony. You're taking baby steps here, and good ones. Slow down.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:53 pm

Sasha comes over to wake me up by putting her cold nose on mine ... so to say that she'll never accept you putting your face next to hers would probably be stretching it a bit. That she'll ever accept you having your face next to hers while she's eating ... I think you're probably pushing your luck - especially at this point. I can't think of any real reason that I'd want to be in that position with any of the dogs I've had ... maybe it's just the fact that I don't want them in my face while I'm eating so I wouldn't get in their face while they're eating....

Maybe I'm humanizing their reactions a bit too much but I think giving them the same space as I'd give another person seems to go a long way in the relationship I have with my monsters ...
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:11 am

The real take home point is reducing Bandit's stress, so if this is causing her stress AND it is essentially non-necessary/pointless, it's kinda obvious it should be dropped.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:26 am

Haven't been on in a few days....Wonderful videos Tony, I'm happy that you two are making progress. I agree with Al and Jeff, in her face should be a non issue, work on what you are doing and when she finally has her bowl just leave her alone. The stress for either one of you is more than most dogs could handle, as in your face against hers while eating out of her bowl. Hand feeding not only makes for a more calm dog, but it also builds trust and a stronger bond. Baby steps and continue with what you're doing, good job.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:39 pm

Glad to hear the hand feeding is going well. Videos look good.

As for being in her face...Tony, I see absolutely no reason whatsovever to be in her face while eating...if it were me and you were in my face while I was trying to enjoy my dinner, I would bite your face off lol!

Just a note...Ami HATES when I put my hand on top of his head, I usually go for besides his face, rub/scratch his ears and under his chin...it looked like Bandit wasn't too keen with your hand coming down on her head (lots of dogs don't like this)

See you have WRX - that's are daily driver. I have the backseat completely draped for Ami, he just about fits Laughing
Were you on the track for those speed runs?
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:31 pm

https://youtu.be/p3Eey6Nu8Qs

Here is this morning. I did more on the side of her neck. She liked that a lot more.

Woohoo another WRX owner. Nah that was on the street. Pm if you'd like I can talk about cars there. Don't want to fill this thread with car talk =)
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:44 pm

Nice work Tony.

I would just add a release command any time you are doing impulse/patience/polite/duration work so she knows that you need to release her and then she will be better trained at being engaged to you.

The most common release is OK.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:54 pm

Tony, got to watch first 2 videos with the volume on, and yes great way of talking with her. I agree with Amy top of head while eating for some reason makes her uncomfortable, Miya is same way, yet as I seen your your second video she's receptive to you reaching her side and ear and not on top of head. So stick to a gentle ear rub on occasion. I know early on you wanted to build that bond, and in hand feeding you will accomplish this, it's a mutual understanding. I also liked how you sat with her at her level, it shows her that you trust her, and you hand feeding shows you that she trusts you. It's a beautiful thing!!

To add to Jeff's reply, I use "be gentle" when hand feeding, my release if I am not hand feeding is "get it", both are said in a gentle calm voice, just some extra ideas that you can work with.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:10 am

Sooooo she is a completely different puppy for the last 2 days. She wants so much attention. Loves getting my face and licking. She doesn't care if I take a hone when she is chewing. I can pet her while she is chewing. The feeding... Now I pet then I feed and repeat. She wants the food so much now she wants me to pet her, nudging my hand wanting me to pet. Is this all a result of the hand feeding you think???
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:36 am

Update
So finally she decided to eat on all fours instead of laying or sitting. I noticed with more petting her tail tucks pretty far. She still eats and seems normal but I just noticed it tucks. So should I push through it or slow up on petting while feeding?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:43 am

Tail tucking is not normal. There's no reason to pet her while she is eating. Hand feeding is good. Polite waiting protocol is good. Being near is good. Let up on the petting.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:45 am

Okay gotcha, I was just trying to make her okay with me touching her. Ya know touching equals good things like food etc etc
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:50 am

But she already has food and she is getting it from you. So that association is lost. Tail tucking is a sign of fear, or emotional overload. So you should try to relieve pressure, not add more. If she is already eating and you are attempting to touch her, what you would actually then be teaching her is that your touch is not threatening and she should trust you around her food....not that touch equals food.

She's not there yet. That's developed elsewhere.

The touching equals good things can be very helpful with some training, but with this I would just give her space and let her eat in peace.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:53 am

Okay Okay that makes sense. Jeez I guess I don't understand most things withs with dog psychology
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:18 am

Tony, you're (YOU) are really making good progress for someone who isn't familiar with the breed. I'd also like to congratulate you on not getting huffy or upset with some of our comments ... the fact that you realize that we're trying to help you and Bandit really says a lot about you and your desire to make things work.

My Sasha has food aggression, once I release her to eat (and that's taken a lot of time and work for both of us) we're still not comfortable with me reaching toward her food bowl. I've done a lot of hand feeding, I've done a lot where I'm holding her bowl, I've sometimes dropped something special into her bowl while she's eating - just to help her realize that I'm not going to take her food away from her.

Building trust works both ways - and I'm honestly surprised that you haven't gotten bitten at times (like putting your face near her food!) - but building trust takes time ... and you are getting there ....
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:33 am

Everything is going well l. Too tired to hand feed tonight so I gave her food in the kong. She has to knock it around to get it. Made her work tonight for food. Slightly off topic but I STILL feel like 2 cups a day is under feeding her. She goes nits and begs for food whenever I'm eating. She acts like I don't feed her. She found dome old throw up outside that had food. Started eating that lol Ewww so really is 2 cups enough? She sits in the crate a good 10hrs during the day with one break when I come for lunch. Does she need more food cause I think not Sometimes cause she is inactive a lot during the day
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Hand feeding going well?   Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:41 am

You also give her human food, so you can't blame her or read too much into her begging for your food. Having a lack of boundaries means just that: your dog will lack boundaries.

Less activity would warrant less food, not more. Just FYI.
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