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 submissive over excited peeing ...

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GravityM
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PostSubject: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:52 pm

Hi, this isn't about my husky Miya, it's about Memphis my gsd. So my issues with him are 1. He pees if he gets too excited(my mom visted and he peed all over her feet) 2. He pees if he's in trouble(rolling on his back and urinating all over his belly) 3. He pees when I am trying to trim his nails(whines like big baby I dont even hit the quick!) 4. He barks aggressively at other dogs including Miya but when I approach him he pees in submission, dont even touch him. I've yelled at him a few times when he's done something wrong, like when I caught him digging a hole to the other side of the world in our backyard, but it's never been excessive yelling to the point I think I scared him. He's the biggest baby I've ever known. And we got him mainly for protection for when I'm home alone haha I think he'd run and hide if anyone were to come in the house. He's just being a turd lately refuses to listen when he knows the commands like "go outside" he'll just sit or put his head down. Also completely destroyed the brand new dog bed I got him and bent his crate trying to get out which hes never done before. I'm not sure what to do with him and his behavior and to top it all off I caught him humping Miya this morning. Rant, sorry about that but just arrggg :p
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Jane, I do not have a multi dog home, however, I see it as a problem with Miya, in that he doesn't have all of your attention any more. A couple of things I suggest is to spend separate time exercising and training, the other thing is to observe their behavior between the two. Is Miya a dominate female? For some reason, I have read many times, how female huskies can, and to a certain extent my Miya, have a dominate side. Do not misunderstand dominance is not aggressive, it has more to do with personality. Neither one are close to adult hood, I would not be concerned about his lack of protection and how they act with each other, until after they are both over 2 years of age. I do believe he is just going through an adjustment, he probably realizes that Miya is here to stay, and he is rebelling over not having all your attention. Remember they are both teenagers now, and they will test you in many ways.....hopefully someone else can give you more insight and some other suggestions as to how to handle his current issues.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:35 pm

I do basically give them separate exercising because Miya just want to go and when they are tied together.miya.pretty much just chokes him the entire walk so this past week iv been doing short fast walks with Miya then slow strolls with Memphis lol Miya is very very sweet she won't go out of her way to bully or dominate any dogs at the dog park but will not back down if another aggressive dominant dog tries messing with her she will snap at them and then walk away. I guess she's a lot more confident. Now will Memphis he will run and yelp like a baby if any dog charges at him his hair will stand up and runs slinking low. But if another dog is playing with Miya or any two.dogs are wrestling he will do circles around them and bark very aggressive sounding and i'll tell him no and try to grab him but he'll just avoid me. Now if he does that at the house and I approach him he is super scared and pees? I haven't taken them to the dog park since because of it also his.recall at the dog pak is terrible. He seems to really only respect and listen to Jack, I swear this is "his" dog he loves Jack and gets all excited for him but wont pee and for me he pees all the time. One time I.swear he did it on purpose, I was playing with both the dogs in the living room and Memphis stops looks at me and pees a gallon on the carpet... idk I'm constantly telling Memphis NO He's always doing something bad like pinning Miya down will all his weight biting her legs and what really aggravates me is when he grabs Miya's neck and holds her. It's like he tries to be dominate over her I notice his tail will go up around Miya, but she just lets.him get away with whatever unless he hurts her then she'll tell him off
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:48 pm

When my old dog was younger he was a little like this as he was starting into sexual maturity. Always peed on everything when my uncle especially would come around. He eventually grew out of it. I can't remember just how old Memphis is and if he is fixed. I think getting him at the park or daycare on his own would help bring him out. It seems like he is using her as a crutch. All of his bravery is based on her actions. Take him to the park and while Miya plays have him doing tricks just outside the fence on a long line or leash to ground him some. He has to stop worrying about her and be able to focus on you to really get his recall under control. I might would leave a long line on him even if I let him go play so if he isn't listening then I had some way of grabbing him and correcting him even if he won't come close.

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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:08 pm

He is almost nine months old and isn't neutered yet, he doesn't mark anything or lift his leg. Before I had Miya, and I would take Memphis to the park all he.would do is find little pieces of tennis balls and chew them never wanted anything to do with the other dogs except his one great dane friend he would kinda bully because he was younger. He's always loved people more than dogs. That is a great idea for taking him by himself. I'm pretty sure if i remove Memphis from the park all he'll do is bark or pull my arm off. I would have to take him when nobody's really there'so other dogs don't run into or trip over the lead. I do worry about Memphis mating with Miya and today's the first time he's ever humped her it lasted about two seconds before I yelled at him. I honestly believe humping is just bad behavior and can be corrected, I just can't leave them alone Miya hasn't gone into heat and I dont plan to spay her because I'm interested in possibility showing her. Can it be done? Having an unaltered male not constantly trying to mate?
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:19 pm

It can, but that is difficult. They have to be completely separated, and heat lasts 3 weeks minimum. Ugh, I think you may be better off in getting him fixed, is there a reason on why you wouldn't want to get him fixed? I understand with Miya, but it may be a better idea on getting him done, and then you have one less thing to worry about......
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:55 pm

Honestly, everything you said about Memphis's peeing brings me back to my sister's GSD. Saxon did the exact same thing. He peed in a girl's purse one time even. She left it on the floor near the front door, and when someone new came in, he just got so excited, he started peeing. He would pee if he was excited, when he got yelled at, it was like almost anything would set him off. Eventually he just grew out of it.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:04 pm

@Renee. Honestly I'd get him fixed it's Jack that's completely against it, so was Memphis' breeder.. @Casey. Oh if anyone new comes in the house Memphis goes nuts, he is doing good about not jumping on people but I hold his collar and wait for him to calm down bofore I let him greet new people just incase he pees on them. I hope he grows out of it XD
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:05 pm

@caseysteffans wrote:
Honestly, everything you said about Memphis's peeing brings me back to my sister's GSD. Saxon did the exact same thing. He peed in a girl's purse one time even. She left it on the floor near the front door, and when someone new came in, he just got so excited, he started peeing. He would pee if he was excited, when he got yelled at, it was like almost anything would set him off. Eventually he just grew out of it.

Good a reason as any to never excite or yell at a dog

Smile
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:09 pm

@GravityM wrote:
@Renee. Honestly I'd get him fixed it's Jack that's completely against it, so was Memphis' breeder..                                         @Casey. Oh if anyone new comes in the house Memphis goes nuts, he is doing good about not jumping on people but I hold  his collar and wait for him to calm down bofore I let him greet new people just incase he pees on them. I hope he grows out of it XD




It is more likely this has to do with excitement rather than submissiveness.  

I suspect that you if trained him to not react to guest at all: door bell, knocking, people entering, the door opening, then this problem would go away.  

You would need to stage the scenario of visitors coming over and teaching him a Place command and correcting any type of excitement or leaving Place when the visitor arrives.  

It takes some work and some time but the pay off is enormous, far beyond stopping excited peeing.

This, as well, would have nothing to do with him being intact or not if taught properly.    There are ways to train around problems that people mistakenly blame on not being neutered.

It sounds like your household is extremely high energy and that it is kind of a free for all for the dogs.  

What sort of boundaries or other training protocols do you have?
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GravityM
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:28 pm

Well in some scenarios I stated how he acts scared if I approach him hes not wagging his tail at all and he gets really tense. No I allow him to bark if the door bell rings just not excessive, I do let him greet regulars and he's usually good and wags his tail, if he does act out of control we tell him to go lay down he normally will listen. If he starts to pee I put him in the backyard for a time out sortta thing. We have a piece of cardboard blocking the living room to where the front door is and he knows he's supposed to stay in the living room when people are entering the house. Sometimes he'll jump over it and I tell him no put in back in there then say go lay down then he's usually pretty upset and whines. It's kinda like "place". The weirdest thing though is how scared he gets if im about to cut his nails or i hold the clippers to his foot I have to do it outside cause he pees everywhere..I dont hurt him all I'm doing is holding his foot. Its like he imagines me hurting his nail . But thanks for the advice 'll definitely try some oor exercises hopefully it helps with the pee situation
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:42 pm

So here's my take on what you just said.

He pees when he is excited that guests arrive, yet, you let him bark and greet guests when they arrive and when he pees, you punish him with a Time Out.


You have created a physical barrier that separates him from the door to try to prevent him from greeting guests, yet, he regularly jumps over to greet guests and then he gets corrected with No and then he whines and cries because he is cut off from the guests.


Where's the problem here, with him or with you?
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:45 pm

You are letting his mind and his body escalate to a point of no return (peeing, barking, jumping, being a brat) and you're getting upset and angry and frustrated with him, yet you are not taking the appropriate steps to prevent that from happening and he's just getting his way over and over again.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:01 pm

Ok. Yes I want him to bark letting me (and them know) someone's at the door theres nothing wrong with that he's alerting me its what gsds do. It's not like he's barking in high pitch tone doing circles, hes calmly standing behind the cardboard where we trained both of the dogs to stay. He only gets to greet them when they come into the living room he normally sits with his tail wagging but occasionally he'll jump over it in excitement and that's when I correct him, whats the issue there? He doesn't jump on them sometimes he'll do a mini hope with his front feet of the ground and I just say no. I try to not get him to the point where he pees I just tell my guests to ignore him when he's in that state. And he'll go lay down eventually unless I tell him to. Im not gonna ignore him when he pees so I put him outside. Its not very often we have people come over and that's probably the main issue is not working with him enough. When he gets whiny after I tell him to go lay down when people are over he basically gives up but complains with a whine then hes calm and quiet? How is he getting his way over and over again if I correct him for everything he does.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:11 pm

Well there are two parts to a behavior: the impulse to do it and the repercussion of it. You are correcting the repercussion of his behavior, but ignoring the impulse to do it if your goal is to politely and calmly react to guests coming over. You have yet to teach him that guests are not a trigger, which is the impulse part of his behavior. You have allowed him to be triggered, and then corrected the repercussions.


If he is this excitable and nervous, do you think he is cut out to be a protection dog?

It's not inevitable that breed characteristics or stereotypes will automatically dictate behaviors. They are all still dogs, which means they are malleable and trainable given the right technique and situations.

Not all huskies pull people down the street like a sack of potatoes, for example.

Breed creates challenges to training, yes-big time, but it doesn't dictate behaviors.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:23 pm

Ok I understand, no I don't think Memphis is at all an protection dog or has what it takes to be trained honestly. He loves people too much and would be a great therapy dog once he's trained better.They are a strong breed not for everyone like siberians aren't. All I was saying is gsds are high alert dogs and I like that. But excessive barking like at other dogs I could live without but I don't know how to train him to not do that. Hopefully he will stop being a bratty dog because it is frustrating and Miya acts like an angel go figure.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:27 pm

Yep, high alert. No doubt. So if you want you him to react calmly, then your job training that will be tough.

Same with a Husky and pulling.



Haha, it is very common that two dogs in the same house will seem opposite, like opposing magnetic forces. If the concept of emotional balance is valid at all, that's what is going on.

I envy you having a Husky and a GSD, even just from a trainability perspective. As much as I love Huskies I don't think I could emotionally go through raising/training one again. Ideally, we move out to the woods and I get my gun dog, a German Wirehaired Pointer.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:38 pm

It is tough but the outcome is soo worth to have happy well adjusted dogs.haha that's interesting first time hearing that seems to.be what's going on. I wouldn't envy me lol I'm on the same boat there although I didn't train miya from eight weeks I trained her from 5 months and it was an nightmare at first to the point I wasn't sure if I was going to keep Miya but I'm happy I did. I've never had a more sweet loving dog Smile They are very cool dogs... if only huskies could be like that I'd take Miya hunting haha
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:43 pm

My best friend once characterized dogs as having arrows coming out of them, like on a diagram, and these arrows are their focus, or intentionality behind their behaviors.

With a Husky, they are always pointing away from you. With a GSD, they are always pointing towards you.

I think my personality and expectations for a dog are MUCH better suited for the latter, the GSD type. That said though, Cesar Millan says "you don't get the dog you want you get the dog you need." As for being challenged and growing and evolving as a person, this has very much happened with my Husky.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:55 pm

Im gonna have to draw that haha pretty awesome. Maybe so, he's a good dog, an amazing breed. I love that, and I completely agree. These dogs have taught me so much already, obviously I'm still learning but always room for improvement personally I like the challenge of training. Am I crazy haha
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:47 pm

I would suggest, in addition to what Jeff has suggested, that you add a couple things to your routine. First of, teach Memphis a cue for speak. If you want him to bark at the door to seem threatening (whether or not he actually is), then practice with the doorbell as the cue, but it has to be structured and it has to be on your terms. The difference here is that you are requesting the behavior, and he is responding with his inner GSD. Right now, his inner GSD is a big ball of energy with nowhere to go but OUT, somewhere, anywhere (peeing, barking, pacing). Having this amount of energy/arousal without a place to direct it, is creating insecurity. Hence the barking and herding at the dog park, the peeing, etc. It's good you like training, because I think you've got a hard worker on your hands and you've got a lot to do in terms of fulfilling that need. He has a drive that keeps getting reflected back into himself when he seeks an outlet, which is creating instability, frustration, and excitement. The bad habits you see are the actual physical expression of this. He's peeing because he doesn't know what else to do. The amazing thing about shepherds, is that you can so easily grab and direct the current, in fact, they NEED you to grab the current.

You don't need his attention, you need his attraction.
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PostSubject: Re: submissive over excited peeing ...   Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:51 pm

I have actually been trying to teach him speak haha but thats a great idea to teach him to bark when I want/need him to. A lady at tue dog park with her shepherd told me a story about two strange men in trench coats watching her from afar and wouldn't respond to her, so she warned them that she will set her dog on alert, so she did and immediately these guys backed off. I've thought about Schutzhund training but Ijust dont have the extra money at the.moment. thank you for all the great advice I'll have to work with Memphis more.

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