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 Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)

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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:54 pm

Hello!

We recently noticed that Gus's lips are becoming spotty. He's 2yrs old right now. We switched him to raw around November. For awhile, he did have some sort of weird allergy to SOMETHING. We're still not sure what it is because we stopped the chicken. It didn't go away. Put him back on the chicken, and now it's all cleared... He was itchy, and his snout and lips would sometimes get really red and almost inflamed. This hasn't happened in over a month though. When we switched to raw, we were storing it in plastic containers to thaw out. We stopped doing this (only yesterday though) when we noticed the spotty lips. I called the vet, and she said to monitor it and see if it gets better after winter. She said it could be because of the weather, sort of like a snow nose. Looking back at old pictures of him, it looks like his nose and lips were fine in October, and this started happening in November. So in 3 months, his lips became quite spotted. So i'm not sure if this is normal husky winter change, or if it's something more serious. Any thoughts please?

Before pics (from around October/November):




After pics (taken last night):




Hope the pics worked!
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simplify
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:01 pm

Hmm. Looks like an allergy. Is there hair loss in the areas as well because from the pictures it looks like that?


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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:29 pm

Hi Ashleigh!

Hmm, his snout has never been overly hairy. I just looked at his nose up close, and it doesn't look like he's losing hair. The pictures are not great. Sorry about that. The area right under his nose does actually have hair. it's just very short and white, and the lighting was not very good in my picture.

I also noticed the side of his nose is losing some pigment too Sad
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:26 pm

Hello! Just thought i'd try and bump this thread up and see if anyone else might experience something similar in the winter time? I called both my vets (holistic and non-holistic), and they both just said to monitor it.

His snout isn't red in my pictures above by the way. The lighting is not very good Sad But i assure you that it is a normal pink colour Smile
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:38 pm

Hi, looking at the before pictures, you can see it a tiny bit on his lower jaw, right in front of the nibble teeth, and almost on his lip by his back teeth. I would almost lean toward a nutritional deficiency of some kind, that or an infection. Almost looks like puppy warts without the bumps...
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:57 pm

Thanks for your feedback Jen! I read the other thread too where someone was experiencing the same thing, but more on the nose it looks like. http://www.itsahuskything.com/t13675-possible-uveodermatologic-syndrome

We're keeping a close eye on it, but it worries me that it is a nutritional deficiency. In the thread above, kelp seemed to help, but i would need to do some research on how much to give. Sigh. Just when i thought we had finally figured out his health and sensitivity issues Sad He doesn't have the crusty patches like you would expect if it were a zinc deficiency though.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:04 pm

By the way, did you send those pix to the vet? It doesn't look like a typical snow nose at all.

It's interesting, Diz had flare ups with itching and inflammation when he was on raw. I really couldn't figure out the culprit, it was almost like rotation was key for him. If I fed him the same protein for more than 3 days he'd flare up. About the only thing he never reacted to was turkey. I finally put him back on kibble (turkey based) and he's been really stable on that for quite a while. I'm not saying I think you should stop with the raw (I wish I had better sources), just saying I was having trouble balancing it.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:17 pm

I did send them to the vet, and they said they would contact me if they thought it should be looked at, but so far no call. I'll follow up with them though.

That's interesting Jen because Gus had flareups while we were rotating, and we weren't sure what was causing it. Now that he's been consistently on chicken for over a month, he hasn't been itchy or red.

I was reading about zinc deficiency in huskies, and it's weird (or maybe just me haha), but i can't seem to find out how it's diagnosed! It looks like it's just diagnosed if the dog responds to zinc supplements. As in, there is no test to run to verify 100% that it is a zinc deficiency.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:53 pm

Interesting. I'm sorry I don't really have anything helpful. At least you were able to track down what was causing the flaring up. That last close up of his snout in your hand makes me want to snuggle with him.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Hahaha Jen. Gus is getting snugglier as he matures Razz

Ok. I talked to my husband, and our plan is to call the holistic vet (because she supports raw feeding, and we agree that this might be some sort of nutritional deficiency) and ask her more specific questions. I'd like to try him on some zinc supplements, but i'd be more comfortable doing so with her instruction. i'll keep you posted!
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:00 pm

Some Sibes have pigment issues. It's not likely to cause a problem, but can be worsened by nutrition issues. I would get on board with a good holistic vet, but start a multivitamin now.
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:54 am

Hello Maggie,

sorry i didn't notice the notification until now. It has been busy two weeks for me Smile.

Your case looks very similar to what Snow had. In the end i actually believe that Snows pigment loss was more of a hormones issue probably combined with slight zinc deficiency. The reason i think hormones were involved is that snow has been chemically neutered and shortly after that we have moved house so he was probably quite stressed out. It all started around that time and it only got worse as the end of summer was approaching. The photos in my thread were taken at the beginning of October i believe.

Right now Snow has recovered (apart from a small dot on his muzzle and nose) black pigment around the muzzle on nose and on his lips too. Those were the affected areas and they all look healed now.

In between last october when it was the worst and now three things happened.

1) We gave snow the vitamins and kelp for ~1.5 - 2 months.
2) Snows chemical neutering chip ran out and he slowly regained normal hormones level
3) Snow settled down quite a bit and became much calmer dog in general. Still hyper, but calm when its time to be calm, its a husky after all Smile.

From what i have read even the snow nose is mainly caused by hormonal changes, not the sun like a lot people says. And i actually believe that because my friends girl had a snow nose during the summer when she was pregnant. She spends a lot of her time outside playing and just relaxing on the sun but she still had full snow nose during that time. So it can be hormones, it may even be worth it running the blood tests for that. Did Gus have any problems with hormones or was he chemical neutered by a chance?

Some other generic things we did during the last october:

- We swapped all plastic bowls for quality metal and ceramic bowls all around the house.
- We stopped feeding the treats with grain in it altogether. As i think about this one, it might have helped too
- We have started to exercise Snow more as he just passed 1 year of age. I run him regularly and we bike together too - bikejorging gear is not that expensive and its great fun for the dog and you.

I have found a link to the kelp we were giving to Snow:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004FG9X1C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

As for the vitamins i will have to speak with my partner what it was, it was directly from the vet and it contained high amount of zinc.

I hope everything will turn out fine for you.

Edit: Be patient with any changes and supplements. I believe that it took us good three months before we saw the results.
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TheBadGuppy
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:32 pm

Hi Dc41f (Is it Jiri?),

Thank you so much for your reply! I have been eagerly waiting and hoping you would reply haha.

That's really interesting that Snow's pigment loss might be attributed to his hormones. I hadn't read anything about that before. In fact, i found it really difficult to find ANY information regarding pigment loss in general. Gus is not chemically neutered. I'm not even sure what that is haha. But he was neutered the traditional way. He also has no hormone issues that i know of, but I don't know if we've ever specifically tested for that. Did you do a specific hormone test for Snow? Is it just a blood test?

We also stopped all plastic bowls. Gus has always been fed from stainless steel, but when we switched to raw, i would thaw his meat out in plastic containers. We've since switched to glass containers. He doesn't get any grain treats either. In fact, he hasn't had grain in probably over a year, except for maybe the random hotdog bun he might find on the ground (we live in the city). As for exercise, Gus goes for a run about 3-4 times a week right now. He has always been a bit of an anxious dog though.

Thanks for the kelp info! We had a tin of spirulina handy so i have been giving that to him for now. But i'm not sure if it's necessarily a high source of zinc. My research is inconclusive haha. I will definitely look into purchasing some kelp instead. I've tried doing some research on multivitamins, so i'll have to keep doing that. I would prefer a vet recommended one. I spoke to my holistic vet, and she doesn't seem convinced that it's a zinc deficiency. But she also didn't really offer any other possible reason for it. She said that because he's white he might be more prone to pigment loss, which i really don't believe. She also said she doesn't prefer that i give Gus supplements and would prefer a more natural source of zinc for him. She's looking into this for me right now. I am likely going to contact my other vet (non-holistic) after i hear back from her just to see what they have to say as well. Neither of them seem super concerned about it right now, but i just feel very uneasy about it.

It's funny that you mention to be patient Razz When it comes to Gus, i am SO impatient mainly because i am such a worrywart. But he has had on-and-off health and behavioural issues and i am slowly learning to be more patient.

Thank you again for your input! You've really helped me so i can ask the right questions to my vet.

Megan, do you have a multivitamin that you use right now that you might be able to share with me? I know there are many good ones out there, but I would trust people on this forum over online reviews anyday Smile And sorry for not replying sooner, i don't think i was logged in when i read the last reply and didn't get any notifications for this thread.
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Dc41f
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PostSubject: Re: Pigment Loss - Lips (Pics)   Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm

It is Jiri yes, however it reads similar to and is equivalent of George in english Smile.

I think that i know how you feel, our huskies are like children to me and my future wife and we usualy go crazy when theres something wrong with them. But on the other side from all the things that happened to us in our lives i dare to say that they taught us the most. Mostly patience.

The thing about kelp is not that it contains zinc its more about that it cleans the body and it helps to restoe the pigment in a natural way.

Regarding the hormones that is just my guess from what Snow was going through. This is what we gave Snow when he was 6 months old to stay cool with our girl as she was not spayed:

http://www.virbac.co.uk/product.aspx?pid=195&product=68&#page=page-BRAND

It stays in the body for 6 months and after roughly 6 weeks the dog acts like he was neutered. However after it expired the hormone level goes back to normal over few weeks. Snows implat ran out at arround october and he was getting back to his normal hormone level at that time. However because all the other changes that we have made its really hard to say what helped him. Maybe it was combination of multiple things.

Regarding the zinc: our vet was not really happy to give it to Snow in higher dosage so she suggested some multivitamins that we gave to him. She was also suggesting that these changes can be kind of normal in huskies as they are prone to pigment loss. She however checked Snows eyes and she consulted the findings with the specialist as she was concerned with UVS. In the end Snows eyes were fine.

Its so hard to find good information arround the internet regarding this, it seems that noone is actually doing any research so we have to pick the bits here and there. My conclusion so far is that it is the same thing that causes them to loose pigment on the nose during certain period of the year and in some rare cases it can spread out. Also if Gus had an alergy reaction like this it might take a while for his body to recover properly. UVS and vittilgo is autoimmune disease/reaction just like an alergy is.

If you didnt already, let your vet check Guses eyes just to be sure that everything is ok.

We have finally found the multivitamins that snow had:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canovel-Puppy-Condition-Vitamin-Tablets/dp/B00CFLLIU8

We really hope that Gus will be ok and our pack wishes him all the best Smile

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