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 Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.

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Katie Mesner
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PostSubject: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:38 pm

My 10 week old Luna is somewhat calm with me all day at work. She does the normal run through the snow stuff and plays normally. But, when we get home and she eats... she turns into a wild dog. She runs around like crazy (which I am fine with), turns in circles and half jumps on couches (which I am fine with). But she bites my 3 and 6 year old daughters like crazy! I have told them not to run and let her chase them, and they will just sit on the couch. But if they walk by, sit on the floor with her, or try to play with toys with her, she bits them. Hard.

I have tried saying "no bite". She gets even wilder! Crazy look in her eye, play bow and then attack.

I have tried switching hands and clothes out for puppy toys.... She will chew on them for a second and then go right back to one of us.

I have tried the whole Cesar Millan thing where I touch her and make a noise to get her attention... that makes her crazier. I read that using her prey drive for getting her attention could work. It does... but after 15 seconds of chasing a toys or rope she goes right back to us.

I have tried ignoring her. Telling her "no bite" 3 times and then removing all three of us from her so she thinks... hey im biting and the play stops. But she will just follow you around until she can bite, and if I put her in a time out in the gated kitchen she barks, cries etc. When she is finally quiet I let her out... She goes RIGHT BACK TO BITING. Please help me and give any advice on how to stop her... To be honest, I know she is a pup and most puppies do this to some extent, but my fear is that she will get older and stronger and still get this crazy and bite, only it will hurt way worse.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:37 pm

Katie, I'm sorta sorry but my response is going to be bad!  Obviously the little one thinks you're playing with her from your description of her actions.  Let's face it, puppies are going to play 24/7 then they're going to crash hard and sleep for whatever's left of the day, that's just the way they are.  When she's in play mode virtually any attention you give her is going to be "more play"

I started to ask if she's possibly teething, but that doesn't excuse the actions, but maybe it just gives a reason for them.

My suggestion would be to immediately remove her from all contact with you and the girls as soon as she starts biting - each and every time!!  Don't do anything else, just put her in time out until she calms down, if she comes out of time out and starts nibbling then put her back in time out immediately.  For a few days, it'll seem like she's living in time out.  Others may disagree, but by giving her a toy (swapping) only tells her that biting gets a reward - maybe it's one she doesn't want but it's still a reward, it's still attention. Being put in time out with NO interaction between her and all of you is not rewarding.

Okay, I just glanced back over your posts to see if i can get a better feel for what you're going through and I have one comment so far:
Quote :

Thank you! My daughters names... Funny story. My oldest Kahmari, her name means "like the moon". My youngest is Kazlyn Mehnaz. Mehnaz means "proud moon". And now... We will have our Luna "moon". I guess you could say that there is just something about the moon for me. Smile
Rephrase that to "... just something about the lunatic for me!"   << tease >>

Now if you don't mind me being curious, you said Kahmari is "like the moon", in what language?

Curiosity prompts me to ask what you're doing with Luna at work?  If she's out and about, is it possible that some of the yard hands are playing with her - more roughly than you and the girls would?  Guys like to play rough with dogs that play rough, so she could be learning one thing while you're at work and you're trying to teach another at home ...
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:47 pm

Can you elaborate what you mean by "when she eats..."?  Is it the food that triggers this brattyness or after she eats that triggers it??

Here's my completely unemotional and non-judgmental take on this, based simply on what you've said.

Just so you know, you are allowing this behavior to happen.   When you say she "runs around like crazy" and "turns in circles and jumps on the couch" , but that you are okay with both, you are telling your puppy that is allowed and encouraged to be hyper, rowdy, impulsive, and that there are no other expectations that she has to deal with.  

What do hyper, rowdy, impulsive puppies with a free for all of the house and everything in it do? They mouth you. They mouth your kids. They mouth your house and everything in it.  Puppies use their mouths to interact with the world.  It is their only sensual mechanism on their body that allows them to interact with their environment physically, and especially if you allow and encourage her to get riled up and hyper, what else do you expect her to do with all that energy?

It's like you are pushing the first domino, watching them all crash down, but yet you want the last one to stay upright.  Or, you are giving lots of input, but disallowing the natural output.

This is natural, normal, completely predictable behavior.  She is not biting nor attacking.  She is socializing and playing with you all because you are her family. She would do the exact same thing to any dog or puppy.  I think it could help you reframe this, mentally, and learn to deal with it more strategically if you remove the negativity of referring to this as biting or attacking.  She is just a puppy being a normal puppy.  But, you are directly responsible for encouraging this excessive behavior, all the mouthing.  

I strongly recommend that you refrain from riling up your puppy.  Refrain from provoking hyperactivity.  Refrain from any rough housing or chase or other games that elevate her mind and her emotions so that the only outlet she has left is her teeth on you and your family's skin.  Do not allow her to run around, jump on furniture, solicit play or attention, or have free roam of the house.  She is being trained that her impulses are allowed and she is getting immense satisfaction from the fulfillment of those impulses, which is exactly why your corrections mean nothing to her. You can not expect a puppy to escalate that high and then be responsive to corrections.  That's just unrealistic.  

I would keep her on leash in the house for the next two weeks and give her lots of structure and expectations regarding her energy levels and outlets.  You should be focusing on indoor calmness and boundaries. Crate training, Place command, Sit and Down with duration indoors.  

All play and rowdiness should be done outside so that once you come back into the house, she will know that that means it is OFF switch time: time to chill out and calm down and focus.  

This will include your kids, as well.  They need to be fully on board with not riling her up and provoking her.  Yes, it can be very fun and cute to see a puppy get hyper, but hyperness is a very negative mindset and energy expenditure and it leads to bad behaviors that are planting the seeds for an impulsive, bratty dog later on in life.  

In the mean time, keep saying No and walking away when she mouths you.  It won't stop now because she's a puppy and she needs to do this, it is the only natural physical communication they have.  But, once this phases out and she naturally stops, the lesson will be learned and engrained that she is not supposed to put her teeth on human skin (unless invited to, which I personally recommend once the razor sharp teeth are gone) and that her impulses in the house lead to displeasure from her family.  

Puppies ebb and flow in phases. This phase will pass.

If you want to shape her behavior properly you have to start giving her boundaries and structure and start preventing her impulses from having a free for all in the house.


Last edited by seattlesibe on Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Katie Mesner
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:47 pm

I believe Kahmari is "like the moon" in Sanskrit? Something weird like that.

Luna is with me at work because I am gone from 5:45am-5pm. I bring her in... walk her through the yard, and through the shop.. then we head outside. She goes straight for her building. (just a warehouse that has our bobcat and some other random machine that cannot hurt her nor can she hurt them. I unlock the door, she runs in and gets in her kennel. I come in to my office. At 10am I go out open the door to her kennel and head out, she follows me, I leash her, we walk through the yard and by the woods. I head to her building at 10:15 and she goes in her kennel... The same happens at 2pm. At noon I eat lunch head out, feed her, play catch, run around, go on a walk etc. No one has access to her but me. Occasionally I bring her in the office with me for an hour.. She chews her toys on the floor and maybe a bone, and naps.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:57 pm

I do not encourage it at all. At least I don't think I am.

"When she eats" meaning... when we get home she just wanders around and plays with her toys. Then when I feed her she eats normally, not fast, not aggressively. But, once she is finished, she gets a drink of water, goes outside and when she comes back in she turns crazy. When I say I am not encouraging it. I mean, I am not laughing, playing, talking to or doing anything else with her when she does this. I guess I could be encouraging it by not stopping her. But as I said... I have been putting her in a time out when she bites. But, she comes out and does it all over again.

I can keep doing it, if you believe that there will be an outcome, I have only been doing the time out thing for 3 days. I just wanted to make sure that that is the right thing to be doing because as Al said.. it's like she lives in time out.

I have not thought about the whole "off switch" thing when indoors. I can definitely try that so she is still getting some exercise and play in. --- When I bring her in, and she starts playing to hard... do I put her right back in time out immediately? Also, when I go to take her outside, and she has been in time out... won't she think she is being rewarded with "outside" from timeout?
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:02 pm

Oh.. and by saying I was ok with her running in circles, being crazy, jumping on the couches. I was saying that I wasn't mainly concerned with that. I didn't know if that was "normal" puppy play or behavior. (the couch obviously not, but I just mean the overall craziness of running HARD)

I just meant my concern was the biting. Because I know it isn't normal puppy behavior to be biting that much, and not stopping when told to stop. Does that make sense? I am trying to make as much sense as possible here. This is the first puppy I have ever raised. I am trying to do my best. I just want to know what the exact "right" thing is to do so that I can be persistent. I have read so many articles and watched so many videos and some of them contradict each other. I will feel bad keeping her in time out constantly. But if you guys that have been there done that... say that that is what I need to do and it will eventually work, then I will do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:05 pm

Mouthing is a direct outcome of hyperness. Hyperness ---> Mouthing. So, if you allow hyperness.........

You are encouraging it, yes, because you are not preventing it. Both a crate or a leash will immediately prevent it. Simple as that. Right now, she has free roam of the house AND your corrections mean nothing. So, what that means is she is constantly unchecked and able to be as impulsive as she wants.

When she comes inside, she should be waiting at the door for release, not bolting in the door. When you release her to come inside, put her on leash right away or bring her to a crate. Yes she will cry and yes she will throw a tantrum, but it is okay. She is a puppy and that is what they do.

I think the way your are using time out is unfair because she does not yet know that you expect her to behave otherwise, so she is just behaving how she is allowed to behave and then you punishing her. That's unfair. Give her boundaries and structure and expect different behaviors from her. By doing that, you will phase out the unwanted behavior. Time outs only work with deliberate misbehaving if they know what they are expected to do. She does not know anything else other than impulsiveness, free for all, and it constantly being PLAY TIME!!!!!!!!

Change that, and she will change.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:07 pm

@Katie Mesner wrote:
Oh.. and by saying I was ok with her running in circles, being crazy, jumping on the couches. I was saying that I wasn't mainly concerned with that. I didn't know if that was "normal" puppy play or behavior. (the couch obviously not, but I just mean the overall craziness of running HARD)

I just meant my concern was the biting. Because I know it isn't normal puppy behavior to be biting that much, and not stopping when told to stop. Does that make sense? I am trying to make as much sense as possible here. This is the first puppy I have ever raised. I am trying to do my best. I just want to know what the exact "right" thing is to do so that I can be persistent. I have read so many articles and watched so many videos and some of them contradict each other. I will feel bad keeping her in time out constantly. But if you guys that have been there done that... say that that is what I need to do and it will eventually work, then I will do it.


Again, running and jumping for a puppy  = Hyperness.

Hyperness -----> Mouthing.  

Very predictable stuff here.

If she is on leash or in a crate she can neither run nor jump.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:10 pm

Structure and rules and boundaries are not the same thing as Time Out.

Think about the dog you are gonna want in 2 years. Train for that, now.

A 45 pound dog will not be allowed to run around the house and jump on things at will, right?

So why now, because she's a puppy and it's cute, right?

Therein lies the trap.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:13 pm

I agree with Al.....time outs are a must, especially with young children in the house. First thing i will say is that puppy teeth and biting is far different than adults. Miya would and could break my skin and make me bleed as a puppy. As an adult she has control over her jaws, and will apply slight pressure, so no marks and no bleeding, also adult teeth are not razor sharp like a puppies. So there is hope Katie, you just have to learn and train. Luna sees your girls as litter mates, have them yelp prior to time out, this may help Luna in understanding that the biting is too much. The most success I had with Miya was to leave her in a time out. Once she was calm we interacted again. If she went crazy, back to time out. Engaging in play will escalate her into a crazy puppy. Teething does play a role, they want relief from the pain of teeth coming in, just like your kids. So you are dealing with two problems, which worsens as the play continues. Because you have kids, the prey drive playing needs to be with only you, this may pose a challenge, since Luna is just learning boundaries. So recommending prey drive play, may not be of best interest in your situation. However, if this is a way you want to go about, get gloves and get on the ground and play with her. I personally recommend training right now vs excessive playing. Training will tire her out more than just playing, because you are using her mind and physical stamina vs playing you are only physically tiring her out. You can start to leash train, as well as command train. And if she is a super hyper dog, my go to was a combination....either leash train and command train at the same time or command train while playing a fetch game. Throw a ball and play fetch a few times, then when you have a ball practice sitting, laying down, etc. then resume fetch, and switch back and forth. after about 15 minutes of either of those she will be tired and more calm to interact with your kids.....Hope that helps some....

Katie, Jeff explained the boundary issues, as always in excellent form. Taking her out allows her to release the pent up energy, don't take her out immediately after putting her in a time out. Wait until she is calm, then take her out, unless it's because she has to go potty.

Puppy biting is completely normal. It's their way of communicating. Running in circles is also normal. However, allowing her to do this now, will create a difficult dog. At 50 pounds, they have the strength of a hundred pound dog. You must set up boundaries. Time outs are not mean, its a calming affect, momma dog would most certainly do this, you need to be momma dog. Outside running crazy is fine inside not. Threshold training is a must, as Jeff said, teach on leash, to sit and wait at the door to go in or out. This builds trust and respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:19 pm

Hey... don't be mean to me Jeff! I am coming here for help aren't I. I have only had her for a week and a half. I should be able to turn her around right?

I guess even though I did more research that you would believe... I didn't expect puppy ownership to be this hard. lol I mean the directions you gave me are simple. I have watched many videos on dogs waiting for release before going in or out of the house. In the videos they are usually using dogs that already know what to do. Nowhere have I seen this done with a puppy who acts like it's deaf. I was working with her last night trying to get her to focus on me and not her bowl before I give her her food. So she isn't hyper or jumping around waiting for it. She eventually sat down for a split second so I could give it to her. Later I was trying it with treats. She sits well on command. But "stay"... over and over again when I back up hand up in front of her saying stay... she just keeps getting up. I know it takes consistency, but I am afraid she has no idea what I am asking her to do. How will she ever get it if she doesn't understand?

The door release thing. I have to get her to sit and stay at the threshold before I release her? Or can she just stand there and wait? Am I to hold her and say "stay" over and over and then let her go and release her? As I said before... I have seen this done. The man will continuously just shut the door if the dog heads out of it excitedly, wait for him to calm down. Maybe walk him back away from the door etc. But I have never seen someone do it with an excited puppy who acts deaf.

I don't expect you to sit here and be my trainer. lol But do you have any recommendations for some sort of resource I can use that incorporates puppies specifically? Or even hyper puppies. Realistic puppies.... whether book or video, anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:30 pm

Renee... I understand everything you are saying. You as well Jeff. I thank you all for even trying to help me. I want nothing more than to give Luna the boundaries and structure she needs. I just don't fully understand how to do it.

What is a safe way for my kids to interact with her. Renee you said the even prey drive playing shouldn't be done. She doesn't fetch so I can't have them throw things for her. As soon as they get down to interact is when she bites. When they go outside, even if they aren't running she bows and pounces and acts like she is going to chase them. Do they have to just stand still all the time. Or stay all the way up on the couch with their feet up so she can't bite?

Say we are at home... Luna is playing with her toys. My daughter goes to pet her and she turns to bite.. What do I do? Just "say" no. She won't let go... Do I grab her away, push her away, touch her and make a noise like Cesar Millan does, pick her up? How many times do I do this until I put her in time out?

Where was your dogs time out? Is it better to gate her to the kitchen, so she can hear and see us? Put her in her kennel in the bedroom? Bring her kennel in the living room so she can see us? Keep it in the bedroom and shut the door?
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:37 pm

@Katie Mesner wrote:
Hey... don't be mean to me Jeff! I am coming here for help aren't I. I have only had her for a week and a half. I should be able to turn her around right?

I am in no way being mean, I am being direct though. I have not said anything about you as a person or your character. I am just addressing the information given, by you.

Given how direct and undiplomatic I am , if I was being mean, trust me, you'd know it

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:44 pm

I just felt like you were being mean because in being direct and correcting my parenting.... I realize how horrible of a job I am doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:45 pm

I don't mind "being your trainer". It's what I love to discuss and do and I am very committed to this forum as my community online, so there ya go. Now, if you flew me to your house, then I'd hit you with an invoice!

So, personally, I don't care about the difference between sitting or standing at thresholds. It's the intent in the mind I care about. I just want patience and deference, and that can be done on the butt or on feet. Threshold hold work is HUGE for impulse control and deference training.

Also, with Stay, I don't personally train the word Stay as a command, but, I also train accountability for commands.

Think about it: Sit, means sit. If a dog stands, then Sit is done. So, Sit means nothing to that dog as a command because the dog stood up, meaning, stopped sitting.

Commands should imply compliance and release. So, Stay is implied IF you have accountability for breaking command.

You should absolutely go to thegooddog.net or their Youtube channel or solidk9training.com or their Youtube channel and look at the Free How to videos.

Look at Place, Thresholds, Waiting for Food, Crate Training, and Heeling. These commands and exercise will transform any dog from impulsive to calm OR get your puppy on the golden path to the perfect adult dog.

Check them out, for sure.

Eventually, I will have my own videos to show....one day very soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:50 pm

@Katie Mesner wrote:
I just felt like you were being mean because in being direct and correcting my parenting.... I realize how horrible of a job I am doing.


That's a huge thing to own.  Thank you.  So often accusations of Being Mean reveal our own insecurity being faced with the truth.

You asked for help and analysis, right?  And you got it.  I respect you as a community member and I want to help you, that's all.   We all screw up with puppies.  It's okay.  The thing is to adapt and move on.  

The thing with puppies is that we feel so strongly for them and we just want to love them and let them be free. That's normal. But, that's not how dogs get trained.  Love doesn't train dogs.  There'd be many empty shelters if it did.  

Please know, we can address your training and your parenting of your puppy and leave it at that.  It's not about you or your family as people   Smile

My partner and I wanted to kill each other and throw Link off the balcony when he was your puppy's age. It's normal to get frustrated and overwhelmed. If you look up old threads for when Link and Dizzy were puppies, you'd see the sh*tstorms we went through. It's perfectly fine to feel this way at times.

But puppies change RAPIDLY and then so do your emotions!
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:55 pm

<< laughing >> Did one of those books you read say that raising a puppy was easy??  If you had one that did, throw it out!!

Jeff and I don't often disagree - at least not publicly - but this is one case where we will.  Jeff said, and I agree, that time outs are more effective when they're used as punishment for behaviour they know is not desired. (rephrased somewhat)  But when puppy nips and you say "No!" and immediately put her in her time out place - I can't help but feel that puppy will make the connection between behaviour and result.

I'm often the one who recommends a leash in the house, the reason I didn't here is because you've said that she play bites all of you.  Having her on a lead helps control the behaviour - that's true - and it does make it easier to move her to time out without getting nipped in the process - however - you have a young human being there and I'd be concerned with puppy literally wrapping her up in a leash and then she (the human child) might get hurt.  If you can use one to your benefit, then I'd advise using one.

As far as working on set / stay - it's repetition.  First you get her to set and wait for her food, which is hopefully in your hands, off the floor and then set the food down, say "stay" as you set it down so she equates the stay with waiting for her food; if she bolts for the food, pick it back up and repeat (ad nauseum) until she stays setting in place once the food is on the floor. Then the challenges come to getting her to wait for longer periods.
My dogs wait for their meals, they wait to go out, they wait to play (unless it's with each other) but I'm not overly concerned with whether they're standing "politely" or setting - that's your call.  Since you've been working on set / stay with food, then it's a natural to translate that to waiting at the door. If they start to move when you get the leash, stop; if they start to move when you open the door, stop ... repeat ad nauseum! Puppies are smart little brats, they'll understand what you want faster than you'd expect - they'll also learn what they can get away with quicker than you'd expect, too!

I do agree with one comment Jeff made (among many, many others) Train NOW for the dog you want to have in 2 years!

I'm going to suggest that your puppy "acts deaf" because he either hasn't learned that you're the source of all things good -or- she has learned that you're going to give in to her and she's going to get her way.  (( you don't do that with your human children, do you? ))

You had said in one of your other posts that Luna would go to work with you and I was wondering how that was working out ... hence the question.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:58 pm

A safe place, bathroom works for some, with us it was our shop(garage), that is puppy proof, with her toys, but she can not interact with us. I do not recommend using her crate, I feel that the crate is a happy safe place, not a place for correction. With your kids, for now, I would limit any type of play, if she starts to bite have them yelp or say ouch then no then time out, time out as she gets older needs to be done asap, allowing her to continue increases her hyperness.

Katie it takes time and patience of a saint. Being repetitive, and consistent is key. I have never used treat as rewards. Saying good girl and a shoulder rub, will be more effective in the long run. Every time you go out use the same ritual now and forever, she will figure it out.

I think it's your frustration, and believe me most of us have been there. It will get better.

Since she doesn't fetch, and again I feel you need to do this, your kids need to really not play with her until she has learned to calm down some. Use another toy and play a fetch game, when she drops toy, give her a command, if/when she does it good girl and continue play, the playing is the reward.

Katie i do diverge on one thing with Jeff.....for a dog lay down takes more muscles to get up, sitting more muscles, at a stand hardly any muscles to take off. As a puppy I would train in a sit fashion at the door. Stay to me is long term do not move, wait is just a minute and we will go. So with Miya at the door it is a sit and wait. If I do not want her to move it is a stay. I will say huskies have the capacity to learn many, many commands. The key again, is using what you want in a particular situations, be repetitive, and consistent in using them.
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Katie Mesner
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:19 pm

Oh AL... Coming to work with me. LUNA IS DOING AMAZING! Thank you for asking. Smile

Here I thought she would be well trained at home and a problem at work. It is the opposite. She does so good here. Even if her schedule is a tad bit off, or I randomly let her inside with me. It doesn't throw her off at all. They get more snow here at work then at home, so she LOVES to play out here in the yard full of snow. Smile

Jeff- When I get home this evening I am going to watch every video on those two sites you suggested. Thank you.

Can you please for now... Explain to me the whole time out, or being removed from the family thing you were talking about earlier. I need to know what to do as soon as I get home this evening.. Clean slate. lol

When can she have time with us? Me and the kids? Where is the best place for time out? Kennel, gated kitchen? Kennel with bedroom door shut or open? - Wait. I guess you didn't suggest time out. You suggested leash in the house. I am pretty sure I can keep my young ones away from being tangled in a leash. I will try it. So I am sitting there holding her leash. She is playing nicely she has a little freedom. She starts biting... do I still say "no"? Do I immediately pull her back to me? Make her stay right next to me? Is that the point of the leash? lol

Also.. Jeff, what do you use as a release word? And in place of "sit"?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:22 pm

@aljones wrote:
<< laughing >> Did one of those books you read say that raising a puppy was easy??  If you had one that did, throw it out!!

Jeff and I don't often disagree - at least not publicly - but this is one case where we will.  Jeff said, and I agree, that time outs are more effective when they're used as punishment for behaviour they know is not desired. (rephrased somewhat)  But when puppy nips and you say "No!" and immediately put her in her time out place - I can't help but feel that puppy will make the connection between behaviour and result.


My only issue Al just that I think it's best to follow any No with whatever the desired Yes is, which isn't happening in time out. Rather than teaching the puppy HOW to socialize properly, time out just ends the socializing.  

What I'd do with a puppy on leash is this.

Hanging out.
Puppy bites or jumps.
Say or imply No, a disagreement.  
Leash pressure back to where I want the puppy and wait for compliance.  
Say or imply Good.
Resume hanging out.

The physical correction with the leash and the energy/verbal correction alter the behavior through aversion and then the guidance back into position with the leash and continuing to hang out accomplish what Time Out can not.

Time out is a form of No without the Yes.
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Katie Mesner
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:38 pm

Got it. I think I fully understand what I am suppose to be doing with the leash now. I am going to definitely make her wait for her food this evening and just not allow her to eat until she does. (As hard as that may be)- (by the way I was smart enough to be holding the bowl while doing this yesterday not leaving it on the floor.)
I will start the threshold training NOW. I just went outside to get her for a break and she actually just stood and waited at the door until I said "come on" Although I don't want that to be my release word and wasn't even trying.
Hopefully.. just doing these constantly I will see a slight change. I will be back tomorrow with an update. Probably crying. Seriously.
I sure hope you are all around to help me for the next few years with anything I need. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:42 pm

Nice work!

Big problems are built on shaky foundations, the little things. Impulse control is an enormous life lesson for this breed. They absolutely need bomb proof structure and foundation at home and on walks. When they start to defer to you before the impulses kick in, you're winning.

We will be here, don't worry.
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Katie Mesner
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:23 am

Update- I think it is my kids that need training. Not Luna. lol

I sat them down last night and explained to them that screaming, running, or being rough with each other entices Luna. I made sure that for the entire evening then talked calmly, walked slow, and just stayed calm. Luna was GREAT. No biting and only a little bit of running around but it was normal puppy -im going to randomly run over to my bed- stuff. She waited for her food, and even started ringing her bells to go outside to potty. I'm so happy with her.

I am going to continue watching these training videos. She needs lots of work with the threshold training. She will wait after about 6 pops of the collar. Now that I know that the kids need to be crazy outside or upstairs in order to keep her calm. Training will be a lot less stressful. -I think-
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:01 pm

So good to hear you are making progress and being so proactive with training.

Well, I'm glad you said it and not me, but yes, kids are a huge obstacle to puppy training. But hopefully they will come around and what you're saying will sink in.

You never know, maybe you're house will be quieter and more calm, generally, once they commit to good puppy training Smile

Please keep updating and asking questions.

Pay very close attention to the Place command. It's a game changer.

No counter surfing, no door rushing, no begging for food, no swallowing things you drop out of boxes or packages, no hyperactivity around feeding. ......Place command is insurance for all of this .
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Puppy going wild, biting kids.   Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:27 pm

I just want to add I was reading through this and thinking how happy I am that my boy is over a year old and past all this with proper training puppies grow out of this but they are so much work.
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