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 Clomicalm and Anxiety Training

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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyThu Mar 26, 2015 11:09 am

We recently had to put Ellie on Clomicalm in order to help with her separation anxiety training. Has anyone had experience with the medicine and how should I proceed with behavioral modification training? We have been keeping up with the crate sessions while we are home. Any tips will be appreciated.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 3:33 am

Are you intent on keeping her on the medicine? Have you gotten good results since using it?

I find it a bit odd that your dog had separation anxiety, so you medicated her, and now you are asking about training her for separation anxiety. I am having trouble understanding your motive or your understanding of separation anxiety.

What have you done already, training wise, to address this ?
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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 10:21 am

No, we are not intending this to be long term. Clomicalm is just used as an aid for separation anxiety training. I was just curious if anyone has had any experience using it and how long before they saw some change.

Training wise we've been through all the necessary steps and non-medication options but haven't been able to surpass 30 minutes of alone time without serious anxiety. Our vet decided this was a last resort.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

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Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 12:07 pm

Is she crate trained?

How long will she stay in Down without getting up?

When you leave do you say goodbye to her. ....when you get home do you greet her?

Does she get lots of affection?
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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 12:23 pm

Depends on your definition of crate trained. She will go in and come out on command and we do put her in there while we are home and she will lay there. We started having her sleep in the crate again about a month ago and no issues. It's not her "safe place" but she does come home from daycare some days and chooses to lay in it with the door open. Never lasts long though because she changes where she's laying down every 15 minutes anyway even when she's out of the crate.

Our comings and goings are neutral. During our training thus far, we typically keep her in the crate 5-10 additional minutes after walking in the door. We have been setting up Skype and watching her in the hallway (live in an apartment).

To be honest, no she doesn't get much affection other than praise during walks and training. Most of the time, she's off in another room sleeping.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 1:29 pm

But what about duration work in the crate, in Down, or on a bed or mat? Will she stay somewhere and not get up prior to being released?

One of the most effective and easy ways to work on separation anxiety is by providing your dog with a LOT of structure and foundation that essentially works by narrowing her world view a bit to make her feel secure and functional.

It's very good that she gets little affection. Affection is probably the #1 cause of separation anxiety because it makes the difference between you around and not around very emotionally charged and dramatic. It might even help if your praise and remaining affection is lowered in intensity and reduced.

But one thing for sure you can do now is provide her with more structure at home and keep her in command more than in free time. This will absolutely slow her mind down a bit and chop away at some of that anxiety.

Anxiety is a state of mind, an unhealthy one. Structure and foundation protocols in training work to calm that state of mind and create more of a healthy balance mentally for the dog.

So more duration in the crate, in a Down, or in Place, which is a bed or mat or cot or rug . Place is loose, so she can sit or stand or lay down . So long as she's on that item. It's like doggie meditation.

If you would Ike video references please let me know.
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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:05 pm

A video reference would be greatly appreciated because I may not be picking up on the cues. She doesn't appear to be anxious throughout the day so much so she is worried that we may get up and leave. She doesn't follow us from room to room.

While I am cooking sometimes, I will give her the place command for her crate and she listens. I leave the crate door open but eventually she silently slips out to go lay on the couch instead and look out the window.

I guess the question is how do I know her mind needs to take a break?
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wpskier222
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wpskier222

Female Join date : 2013-02-11
Location : NYC

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:17 pm

She is anxious if she is worried if you're going to get up and leave. She doesn't understand her place without the family there. She only feels okay if someone is with her, so even when she appears calm, she is only one event away from anxiety.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:42 pm

Exactly. If a dog spends time worried about the going ons of humans, the dog never relaxes and the anxiety just builds and builds.

Here are some How-to videos that will imply duration work that will over time calm her mind down and teach her that she has no business worrying about what humans are doing.

Crate

http://thegooddog.net/photos-videos/training-videos/#!prettyPhoto[gal]/5/

Place

http://thegooddog.net/learn-to-train-the-good-dog-way-place-command-2/

Thresholds

http://thegooddog.net/photos-videos/training-videos/#!prettyPhoto[gal]/8/

Down

http://thegooddog.net/learn-to-train-the-good-dog-way-down-command-malibu/


I would get your dog in boot camp and have her at an in command / free time ratio of at least 2 / 1 for a month as well as get her on an affection fasting and then take stock of where she is and how she's improved.
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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:43 pm

Well I mentioned she does not jump up every time I do in case I was leaving. She may open her eyes but that's about it. However, in this type of situation, what kind of confidence exercises would you suggest I run through with her?

I'd like to preface all this with that she didn't always have S.A. We used to leave her in the front hallway in the apartment gated off. Then, in November we started coming home to little bits of destruction here and there after work. Her exercise amount never changed and we weren't going to play the "Is she tired enough today?" game, so we opted to re-introduce the crate and put her back in daycare. Daycare is not in the budget so getting the anxiety under control is top priority.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:49 pm

You mentioned that she will opt to leave the crate and get on the sofa. I would stop that immediately as well. The sofa is human comfort space that is compounding her emotional addiction to you. She needs some emotional distance from you right now to get her through this.

Training is the best way to instill confidence in a dog. Duration work, especially, is very important for building confidence. A dog who worries all the time is by definition lacking confidence. So if you get rid of the worrying through training, you are setting her up to be confident.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:50 pm

You are right that this is not about exercise or being tired. This is emotional, not physical.
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Ellie347
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Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Thanks for the videos. I will watch them today. We will start doing duration work as well. Also, we have tried putting her in the crate with a bone so she isn't bored while we are home but wants nothing to do with it if the door is closed. If we open the crate door, she will take it out and try to chew it right next to the crate but we correct her.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 3:02 pm

You are welcome. I will make my own videos very soon but those are my instructor's.

So, bored is a very negative word with a negative connotation. It can be very easy to interpret a calm, relaxed dog as bored. If bored is free from anxiety, that is exactly what you want.
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

Clomicalm and Anxiety Training Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptyFri Mar 27, 2015 3:03 pm

You can easily train her to not leave the crate on her own volition, even with the door open. Those videos address that. When she is free to make choices all the time and act impulsively she is not relaxing in a calm way.
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Ellie347
Newborn
Newborn
Ellie347

Female Join date : 2013-11-12
Location : Somerset, NJ

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptySat Mar 28, 2015 1:13 pm

Quick question: If I'm in another room and I don't have her in her spot prior to leaving, and she chooses to go on the couch to look out the window and sleep, do I have to take her down off the couch?

We chose to let her up on the couch since she was a puppy but she never wanted to be close to us. She always ended up going to look out the window and sleep on top of the cushion. Is this a habit we need to break even though she's relaxed?
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: Clomicalm and Anxiety Training   Clomicalm and Anxiety Training EmptySat Mar 28, 2015 2:07 pm

I would just keep the couch off limits for a couple of months. She needs to be working in command right now.
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