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 christopher's siberian husky ranch???

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BamaChris78
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PostSubject: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:14 pm

I am about to get my first husky puppy and was searching for breeders. I found a little bit of info on this forum regarding this breeder but not much. Anyone here ever done business with them who can share their thoughts? Any info would be really appreciated..


Thanks
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:21 pm

Here's my take on the breeder....I hope someone with more expertise than myself will chime in, since I can pick out bad breeders, but in this case they seem to be pretty good. When contacting them, I would ask to see the hip and eye clearances. The breeder said they were available upon request. Even if you don't plan to show, having those certificates are important down the road, to ensure a healthy adult/older dog. Their prices seem reasonable, compared to the bad breeders. They don't seem to be breeding other dogs, just huskies, which is good. However, they do breed many litters, unless they do not breed in the winter. They had 5 or 6(memory serves me that is) bitches that they have bred for spring/summer puppies. I am more comfortable on seeing 2 or 3 bitches at most, and limit how often they are bred. The biggest issues I had was with the fact that their dogs are not proven(they don't seem to work them and they don't seem to show them), however their pedigrees seem to have been show dogs(not all). Overall I think they are an ok breeder, they are upfront with the fact that some of their dogs are not proven quality, as in work or show. They do give a 2 year health guarantee, which is good, not the best, but better than most.

This is what I got from looking at their site. I have no personal dealings with them, and I would be curious if you can dig up any reviews about them. I know there are a few people on this site that know a lot more than I do, and know about specific breeders. If I were to pick a litter, I would go with the dam and sire that has been hip and eye cleared, with proven pedigreed background, over some of the other litters.

Good luck on your search.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:22 pm

Wayyyy too many breedings, which is a red flag. I find it strange they say they have CERF clearance, but are not listed on the database. And while they discuss Hip Dysplasia, they don't mention OFA/hip tests. Also, willing to sell full registration to anyone who will pay enough is another flag.

They are a puppy factory. They even say they "retire" their dogs at age 6 and rehome them. While that may sound good, all they are "retiring" them from is breeding. They don't do anything else with their dogs and once they are done giving puppies, they get rid of them.

I would not get a puppy from them. Also, and this is just a personal thing, any "breeder" that has the word 'ranch' in their name always seems to be sketchy.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:58 pm

That's why I was hoping someone else would chime in Sara. They really do try to get away from the look of a byb, but the mill aspect, aha, I am not good at picking up on. So they present themselves as being reputable, by knowing what byb's do, and then try and offer the well I have certificates on hips and eyes if you ask and some of our dogs pedigree's have been proven. Gotcha!! Thank you for posting up for the OP as well as myself, since I am currently looking too, and want a quality husky.

Op, so I can clearly spot byb's, I am not as keen on mills, and as Sara just stated, yes I agree with her(did so in my original post), red flags of the excessive litters. some people really can sugar coat their endeavors. Thank you again Sara for pointing out those items!!

Sara, I find it daunting to say the least, and from being on this forum I have picked up a lot of valuable info on what to look for. Just the same, it gets frustrating to see so many byb's and mills on the internet. I wish that there was a better data base for people to look at, to see the great breeders. I do know that SHCA lists, but I did find that some are shady on their lists too. Any suggestions on being able to find the good breeders? For me personally it's not about the costs, but I would need to have one shipped, more than likely, the few reputable places quite often do not provide a lot of info, and that's where the problems start for people who don't recognize byb's and mills. The bad ones show their dogs, and give a lot of pizazz, most of the great ones say contact us for more info. It just makes the quest for a great dog, difficult.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:18 pm

I see that I got a negative treat, I in no way said that this was a great breeder, I did point out the positives and clearly pointed out the negatives. I also suggested to the OP to get more opinions since I am not 100% spot on in seeing bad breeders. Out of the hundreds and maybe thousands of great breeders, byb's and mills, this one particular breeder could pass them selves off as a good(did not say great) breeder. I did say that breeding so many bitches made me leery of this breeder, I also mentioned that I prefer to see 2 and no more than 3 bitches being bred at any one kennel. I also pointed out when getting a puppy you need health guarantee(which I stated 2 years was good not great), that you need hip and eyes certificates, and that the pedigrees need to be proven. Rather than simply treating negatively or positively, an open discussion would further educate people here. This breeder in particular could easily trick most people. Educate Rather than Hate. I did come back and thanked Sara for reiterating what I said about the excessive litters, and how it is a red flag. I never once said get a puppy from them, I merely said that this breeder was ok, and in my book ok means get more opinions. Which after rereading my post, I clearly said at the beginning as well as at the end of my post, get more opinions from more knowledgeable people.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:03 pm

Renee I saw that negative treat as well and well, personally I don't see where you said anything that qualifies.  You expressed an opinion based on what you read on the web site ... I see nothing wrong with that.
You qualified your response so the OP knew it was an opinion ...

I'd suggest that whoever gave your the negative treat go readWhat are "Treats"

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:30 pm

What's more likely is that someone was reading from a phone and bumped it. It happens. I'll go fix it now.

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simplify
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:05 pm

I would say no. Even if they do not show confirmation I believe that any breeder to be reputable needs to be working their dogs in some faction - racing, weight pulling, working pack dog, etc. as well as doing the proper health tests. I also agree with Sara, in that while they say they do CERF, they don't readily post this information with their dogs and it also seems fishy that they don't have it listed with the OFA site.

Also the fact they "retire and rehome" their breeding dogs is just wrong. They use them to produce puppies and ditch them.

I would check out the SHCA.org website, find a breeder that is near you, if they do not have puppies at this time then they are usually very nice about referring you to breeders who may at the time.

Chris, I would check out the SHCA website. There is a breeder in Alabama though I'm not familiar with them called Doxhobbi - http://shca.org/shcahp4f.htm

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:40 am

Thanks for your opinions on this everyone! I really appreciate the feedback! Thank you Ashleigh for the info on Doxhobbi. I actually had spoken to them by email and they are not planning on having anymore pups for a few years. She was willing to let me call her and answer any questions I might have which I greatly appreciate. I have found some more breeders that are close to me but none of them have available pups in their upcoming litters right now. Christopher's is the only place I have found that does have available spots but seeing as they have multiple spots available I guess that could also be somewhat of a red flag also to go along with the other things you guys have brought up.
I noticed they said people are welcome to come out to their place and look around which I am going to contact them and ask about taking a tour around their place.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:48 am

Make sure you stay away from Carmona Kennels in Florida as well. I had found Christopher's when looking for Ghost and shied away for the reasons listed above, but was duped into thinking Carmonas was a "good" breeder. They're not...

Not sure if Boreayl has any available or planned right now, but she's in Cincinnati.

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:59 am

There are also a few in Georgia, which wouldn't be too far. Rita Montgomery of Cedarwood Siberians is also in Alabama. She is super nice and has some good looking dogs. I know she recently had a litter but may have one planned again soon.

Sometimes waiting is for the best. Honestly if you want a healthy, quality pup from a reputable breeder you are going to have to wait a bit unless something were to come available from a current litter.

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:14 pm

@simplify wrote:
There are also a few in Georgia, which wouldn't be too far. Rita Montgomery of Cedarwood Siberians is also in Alabama. She is super nice and has some good looking dogs. I know she recently had a litter but may have one planned again soon.

Sometimes waiting is for the best. Honestly if you want a healthy, quality pup from a reputable breeder you are going to have to wait a bit unless something were to come available from a current litter.


I agree. It looks like waiting is something I might end up doing. Neutral Neutral
I would rather wait and get a good healthy dog then make a poor choice.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:48 pm

@simplify wrote:
I would say no. Even if they do not show confirmation I believe that any breeder to be reputable needs to be working their dogs in some faction - racing, weight pulling, working pack dog, etc. as well as doing the proper health tests. I also agree with Sara, in that while they say they do CERF, they don't readily post this information with their dogs and it also seems fishy that they don't have it listed with the OFA site.

Also the fact they "retire and rehome" their breeding dogs is just wrong. They use them to produce puppies and ditch them.

I would check out the SHCA.org website, find a breeder that is near you, if they do not have puppies at this time then they are usually very nice about referring you to breeders who may at the time.

Chris, I would check out the SHCA website. There is a breeder in Alabama though I'm not familiar with them called Doxhobbi - http://shca.org/shcahp4f.htm

I would actually disagree with the statement that retiring and rehoming is bad - in some cases, this may be true, but there are fantastic breeders who retire bitches to homes after breeding them. My dog Cato's mother is in a home where they specialize in performance sports, instead of conformation. She was retired very young (4) and a close friend of the breeder now has her. She is very happy and very successful in agility.

If you want to create solid, healthy, sound dogs...sometimes you have to understand that rehoming them where they can be lazy and happy house dogs is the best option. Some dogs do not like showing, or performance events...sometimes they would do better in a different situation. It's not a blanketed situation and I know plenty of breeders who love their dogs enough to know that sometimes it's better for the dog to go live elsewhere instead of with them.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:13 pm

Megan, I think the issue here was that on their website at least, it is more of a blanket statement that once the dogs hit 6, they are done breeding and therefore rehomed. Obviously very good breeders will rehome adults for specific reasons, it was just the generality of the statement from these guys that bothered me.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:05 pm

Yeah, I understand that some reputable breeders will rehome dogs, even after they have been CH pointed and all that but like Sara said, these people say it as a blanket statement. Like regardless, their dog is 6 - it is retired and rehomed.

The sole purpose of these dogs to THIS particular breeder seems to produce puppies and that is all. That's all I was getting at with that comment.

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:07 pm

Gotcha. No worries, and I wasn't trying to sound snippy. I'm crabby, pregnant and sick so most things sound snippy from me today. Sorry
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:17 pm

Haha. No problem!

I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't condemning all breeders that retire and rehome their dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:58 pm

I've found this breeder to be very nice. It's family operated and we adopted our husky Snow from here at 11 weeks. She is very friendly, and had some of her shots when we got her. She was very playful and smart, but was submissive when we introduced her to our other dog, who can be dog aggressive. The property is very nice. There is a lake they take the dogs down to in the summer, and each pen is about an acre, I'd say. The dogs weren't overweight or under weight and loved visitors. We are actually reserved in one of the current litters. She does keep some of her retired dogs, as some of you were talking about, and she educated us about the breed before we adopted. She offers micro chipping and I just think she is a amazing breeder.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:11 pm

Nice people and dogs in healthy condition doesn't equal a responsible breeder breeding for the right reasons.

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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:25 pm

Ashleigh, that's quite probably true but when it comes to a BYB who's breeding only for the almighty dollar and one who takes care of their pups - I'll take the latter.

I'm going to go at this very carefully and let me say now that this is my opinion, yours may vary but how and how much is not really my concern.

I like dogs, almost all I've had have been rescues from either the pound or off the street and have run the gamut from Spaniel mixes to Siberians and Labs.  I'm most happy with two or three so they can occupy themselves when I'm not up to a 5 mile hike in 100° weather ('course most dogs are camped out somewhere at that temperature anyway but ...)

I almost categorically detest absolutes.  "Any temp over 85 is way too hot!" - if you're from the frozen north, it might be, if you're from the humid south it definitely is. Personally, that's just getting into the area where I'm comfortable, 95 with a decent breeze is great - to me!  See what I mean, vern??

I'm going to touch on what seems to be a sore point with many people here and simply ask that you bear with me for a bit.

Absolutes:  "You don't want a Husky that isn't show quality or a working dog",
Why not?  Not all of us want or need a dog that'll stand up in either of those categories.  And while some of you can afford to spend $2,500 for a pup, again, not all of us can (or would be willing to).

It seems as of there are two classes of breeders - those whose dogs are from some established line, whose dogs meet all the certification requirements, those who work their dogs on a sled or in the ring - and then there's everyone else seemingly lumped into the BYB category.

In my life I've had exactly one dog who was papered - a German Shepherd whose papers were as good as they come but she was "the runt of the litter" and never got "full sized".  Eventually she became my mothers dog just because she was small and had a temperament that made her a good single persons watch dog.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not going to set here and defend the run of the mill "puppy mill", there's nothing pleasing about forcing a bitch to have as many litters as quickly as she can before you "retire" her.  Even the stores that used to sell the puppy mill dogs are dropping way back and encouraging more adoption of neutered animals.  And, as far as I'm concerned the BYB who's turning out pups as fast as his pack can have them is just as bad as a puppy mill.

There is, in my mind a middle ground.  The purists here may disagree, but that's why I'm phrasing this as an opinion.  There are folks out there who have good looking dogs, dogs that have been properly cared for, dogs who have no observable problems and have had none in their "pedigree" - personally, *I* have no problem with them breeding every year to two years.  They aren't, and don't claim to be, breeding show dogs or working dogs - they're breeding pets.  And, in my mind, there's a place in this world for pets - not every dog has to be show quality ... do they??
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:38 pm

Al....I'm sort of with you but there is a but. It's not so much that breeding show or working dogs (and those breeders get loads of pet quality pups out of there breeding that do not meet the standard for show or working) is the only way to go. Its the health clearances. For me, the but is - the testing for diseases, in the husky, eye problems and hip clearances on the parents. Also, any history of epilepsy. Also, to maintain the breed standard so that the breed does not evolve into something else.

For instance - Ami is a wooly - that is a fault. Ami is also too big - he's close to 25" at the withers and he weighs 72 pounds. Now Ami is a beautiful dog. But he is NOT a beautiful Siberian Husky. And, unknowledgeable people (like my husband Rolling Eyes ) think, well why not breed him - he IS a beautiful dog with a wonderful temperate. Yes, he makes a great pet but if everybody did that then the breed would no longer look like what the standard calls for. (crappy english, I know, I'm in a hurry...I WILL get beets in if it kills me Mad )

Also, I think breeders sell pet quality pups for less than 1000. generally (I may be way off base here, but that's my impression. I think the big bucks go for show quality etc.)

But yeah, I think a dog can be bred humanely and responibly by an individual not connected to the ring or trail.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:57 am

@amymeme wrote:


Also, I think breeders sell pet quality pups for less than 1000. generally (I may be way off base here, but that's my impression.  I think the big bucks go for show quality etc.)

But yeah, I think a dog can be bred humanely and responibly by an individual not connected to the ring or trail.

Not that it matters much Amy, but Al is pretty much correct in his pricing, atleast from my experiences. The breeder I bought Kohdi and Mishka from wants double the price of a pet quality, for a show quality, $2500. And I know that when researching breeders before I bought Kohdi and then Mishka, pretty much all the breeders I looked at were the same way. One of them, Innesfree (they were part of Malukhai and Anuschkas lines and I wanted Anuschka's really light silver color) wanted at the time, 2 years ago, $1600 for a pet quality...I didn't even ask what a show quality would have went for. Anyways, like I said, probably doesn't matter much, but I am in agreement with what Al said there.

The thing that bothers me in these type of discussions is, the term "reputable" means to me, a breeder that does all the "right" things...which takes time...time for achievements in the ring or at work, time for building lines that conform to standards, and basically time to build that "reputation" , so if everyone was buying from reputable breeders at the time these now reputable breeders were just starting out, how would they have had the chance to become reputable? Am I making sense? LOL. And please nobody hate on me for asking the question, it's really the way my brain works so if anything, just help me to understand it better.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:05 am

Reputable breeders do not sell show quality dogs for $2500. Reputable breeders sell pet quality dogs for roughly $700-1200 (depending on the breeding) and show quality dogs for $1000-$1500. I know this because I own both and live in a state with some of the biggest and most reputable Siberian breeders.

My males are from two different show kennels. One cost $800 (as a pet) and is out of amazing show stock, And from Karnovanda. The other cost $1200 (as a show dog) and is also out of great show lines and from Qudos. If someone is trying to charge you more than what is listed it better include shipping and all kinds of other stuff. Otherwise, they are over charging.
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:08 am

Hmm, I thought Innesfree was reputable. My bad
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PostSubject: Re: christopher's siberian husky ranch???   Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:11 am

Innisfree is a fine kennel, but not necessarily a representation of what most breeders will sell for. You have to also remember that innisfree was the top kennel for a long time and they may have been using frozen sperm or other expensive methods that jacked the price up. Puppies from males whose semen was collected and stored can cost more just because it is expensive to collect, store, and then implant surgically.
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