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 Behavior Problem

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nichole.1990
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PostSubject: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:56 am

So we have a pretty serious issue that developed last night. Jasper has always been very hyper outside, to the point that he's almost a different dog. Inside, you'd swear he's 12 instead of 2 but outside it's a completely different story. Usually he would just jump at you or nip and paw the back of your arms as you're walking away but we would ignore it and walk away. We always assumed he was trying to get you to play.
However, last night my mom was out in the yard while I wasn't home and she said he ran at her and jumped like normal but then he bit her and nipped her arms hard, she yelled at him and she claims he started to growl and show his teeth at her. He broke skin on one arm and now she's afraid of him, she's always had dogs growing up so she's used to them and this isn't a previous fear.
Mom claims she didn't do anything to provoke him but since I wasn't there I can't be sure. I do know that recently we bought him a WobbleWag Giggle ball and he seems to be afraid of it and gets pretty rambunctious and anxious when you shake it, that was in the yard when I got home so I'm speculating that maybe she kicked it or he hit it and it set him off.... but I could also be reaching here because he's never once showed signs of aggression before (even towards other dogs) and my perfect dog is not so perfect anymore. I need some explanation for this and how to fix it Shocked. My absolute biggest fear is if he were to bolt and do that to someone else and then we have to put him down, it may be just play but it's definitely gone to far now Crying or Very sad.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:46 am

Sounds a little like he has a high prey drive and is trying to goad someone into playing with the jumping. Without seeing what really happened it's hard to say what may have triggered him. It could have been the wobbler got him too wound up and he lost himself for a second. It could also be that when he tried to goad her into playing she may have swung back and hit him and he didn't take it well or it only got him more excited. Does he get to go to any dog parks often or bike runs? If he has that much energy outside perhaps upping his exercise would help with his outside manners. Do you do any kind of training with him in the yard that forces him to pay attention to you and settle while his is in that stimulated of a situation. I would watch how he reacts to your mom the next time she comes over. Have her go out in the yard with him and just watch how he acts. Biggest thing is getting her to get her new fear under control because if he was extra excitable before, her fear will only amp that up and make it worse.

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nichole.1990
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:34 am

He goes to the dog park everyday for at least an hour, sometimes as much as 3 hours, and I try to walk him at least 5km everyday (we only miss very bad weather days). So I don't think it's the energy issue.
As far as training, we play fetch and he only gets the ball thrown once he sits and is quiet and if he tries to run before I throw it then I don't throw it and he has to reset. But that's all that goes for training in the yard honestly.

I went out this morning to see how he reacted again with the ball. Before the ball was introduced he jumped a bit but with a firm no he backed off, however once i kicked the ball and he played with it for a couple seconds he starting jumping at me and nipping but again he stopped with a firm no. However, about 5-10 minutes after I put the ball back in the garage he went nuts again and started jumping at me and trying to grab my hands and wouldn't stop until i grabbed his collar and made him lie down. Could he seriously be triggered by something and have that much of a delay?
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:49 am

This kind of jumping and nipping was a huge problem when we first got Ami at 1 year of age. Since we put up the invisible fence and he romps with my son's husky mix pup (now 14 mos.) it is not really an issue...until Ami hasn't seen Archer in 3 or 4 days, than it comes back.

It is exuberant, full of life husky looking for someone to play like a husky. Before we got the efence and Archer was an almost constant fixture over here, I was actively working on no jumping/nipping. I'm a little hazy on exactly how, but it was quite successful...went something like this:

I went outside with him, a pocketful of kibble and a ball or tuggy. Throw the ball, when he came back (usually without the ball - just something to chase Laughing ) if he was starting to leap, I turned sideways to him, crossed my arms close to my chest, turned my head away and no eye contact. If he body-checked me, I turned my back completely to him, if he leaped but didn't touch me (the not touching would be deliberate - he's very agile and accurate with his body) than he got a "good boy" and some kibble pieces. He caught on within 2 or 3 times - after a day or 2 of this multiple times a day, he really stopped.

Then with Archer around all the time (son works out of town, seasonally and we dog sit) he got enough doggy play it was a non-issue. Just yesterday noticed he's starting to leap/nip at me again (hasn't played with Archer since Sunday Sad ) GUess I will have to go back to the training.

And...while you do this? Wear something heavy, bulky and padded - I bruise easily and Ami was frequently tearing my skin (we old ladies have fragile skin - which may be what happened with your mom.)

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nichole.1990
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:53 am

Great advice! Thanks, I'll try that for training as well.

I'm really starting to think that it's probably not full aggression, even though he growled and showed his teeth. Because he did it to me earlier while wagging his tail, but I would assume Mom was too scared to notice his tail and all she saw was teeth. Am I right in making this conclusion??
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:58 am

A wagging tail just means excitement, and it can very well be excitement to bite or attack. A wagging tail means nothing in an of itself. What is he excited about? That's the key.

I don't think you're dog is aggressive, respectfully, I think he's a brat who doesn't know that humans aren't dogs and he has no reason to care that they're not.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:59 am

I also, thinking back, used to terminate the play and put him on his trolley if, when turning to the side, head down, arms crossed, after a couple of "passes" he was still "nip/leaping".  What he really wanted was play.  If he did not play on my terms, the play terminated.  Ami is smart - he figured it out quickly.

I think you have to watch for over-stimulation with your pup and terminate the play session when he starts to get overly exuberant.

As far as the growling/teeth - I'm wondering what your Mom really heard/saw. Huskies are known to "talk". Ami's talk is very low-throated rumbly more of awwwrrrr rawww rawwwrr instead of "woo-woo". When we first got him, my husband, not knowing this, told me Ami didn't like him, was growling. I overheard it one day and laughingly said "that's 'Hi, how are you, I missed you, come play with me' not growling". Even now, my son's BIL stopped by to pick up some tools and Ami was "woo-wooing" to beat the band and the BIL was hiding behind the storm "he's growling at me!" Not lol!
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:01 pm

@seattlesibe wrote:
A wagging tail just means excitement,  and it can very well be excitement to bite or attack.  A wagging tail means nothing in an of itself.  What is he excited about?  That's the key.

I don't think you're dog is aggressive, respectfully,  I think he's a brat who doesn't know that humans aren't dogs and he has no reason to care that they're not.


Yup - that's exactly what I think lol! Jeff - you are so much more succinct than I!

I enjoy the exuberance...but out of self-preservation, had to dial it back with training.
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nichole.1990
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:04 pm

@seattlesibe wrote:
I don't think you're dog is aggressive, respectfully,  I think he's a brat who doesn't know that humans aren't dogs and he has no reason to care that they're not.

LOL, I think you're right. They are seriously the most stubborn and self-absorbed breed I've ever come across.


@amymeme wrote:
As far as the growling/teeth - I'm wondering what your Mom really heard/saw.  Huskies are known to "talk". :

She had a husky for 14 years so I would think she would know the difference, that being said they're all different and what might sound like growling in one may sound completely different in another!! Smile
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:09 pm

@nichole.1990 wrote:

@seattlesibe wrote:
I don't think you're dog is aggressive, respectfully,  I think he's a brat who doesn't know that humans aren't dogs and he has no reason to care that they're not.


LOL, I think you're right. They are seriously the most stubborn and self-absorbed breed I've ever come across.



@amymeme wrote:
As far as the growling/teeth - I'm wondering what your Mom really heard/saw.  Huskies are known to "talk". :


She had a husky for 14 years so I would think she would know the difference, that being said they're all different and what might sound like growling in one may sound completely different in another!! Smile

Yeah, my previous sibe girl, Sasha, used to talk all the time but her's was much higher pitched and sounded benign. Ami's talk is really basso profondo, and to be honest, to the uninitiated, does sound like growling - its the ears laid out back, totally body wriggling, so happy to see you look on his face that gives it away - if you look! And the nipping...hurts! FOr a while, husband used to grouse that people were going to think he was abusing me I was so bruised all the time Rolling Eyes
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:34 pm

The chances are VERY good that your mom brought the wrong kind of attention to herself and that her description of the incident is exaggerated, but, that's still no excuse or justification.

It's still the case that your dog has a jumping problem and a mouthing problem, no matter how its provoked or interpreted. The good news , though, is that you are aware of it, can start looking out for those moments, and begin cracking away at it.

It's always good to be aware of the specifics with dog behavior problems. Now, you can avoid those situations, training for those situations, and changing your dog's behavior in those situations.

Think about it and how you would go about changing it. If you'd like some suggestions, I'm happy to offer some, along with Amy and hopefully Jen gets her butt in here too.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:03 pm

Not to shed light on an old thread, but......Nichole, If I remember correctly you had just moved to the country? You asked awhile back on an issue, I can not remember exactly what the problem was....but I do remember a lot of us mentioning to try an e-collar. Did you try using it? I ask because they are a great tool for outside work and command training for a stubborn dog. You need to build respect in your guy. Command training in huskies is paramount, in that they are so independent, reeling them in and getting respect from them goes a long way. With Miya, she was a jumpy kind of dog too. I trained with her extensively. She will not jump on anyone, and I do not have to remind her, except to tell her to sit and be good when someone comes over. I do employ the game of me being Miya's prey, because she does need that type of play, but she only does that type of play with me. I can elaborate if you need me to. The thing is respect needs to be built here with you and Jasper, once he has respect for you, he will have respect for others.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:05 pm

BTW, I agree with the others, he was not being aggressive, he was more than likely trying to initiate play with your mom.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:15 pm

Great advice on e-collar, Renee. Outside of using one to teach obedience at very low level, motivational levels it can be used to correct unwanted behavior in a matter of seconds.

We can yell NO! at dogs their whole life and No still means nothing to them, often in fact just amping dogs up even more than they were doing what we are yelling NO! about.

With the proper tools and technique we can start to add very relevant communcation to our relationships with our dogs and teach them the value of the word No and start to incorporate accountability for behaviors and obedience commands.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:16 pm

I too was thinking Nichole could benefit from prey games by invitation only.

You should elaborate Smile
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techigirl78
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:24 pm

It is warm and my flirt pole is back out. It is like a big cat toy you can use in the yard if you have a fence, but great for teaching drop it and come and other commands. The boys need a little work in that area in the yard, so hoping the flirt pole will help. Last summer it helped a lot with Loki.
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nichole.1990
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:53 pm

@seattlesibe wrote:
If you'd like some suggestions, I'm happy to offer some, along with Amy and hopefully Jen gets her butt in here too.

Yes please!! Any suggestions would be helpful since I'm kind of at a loss of what to do other than just ignoring the behavior or grabbing his collar and removing his fixation.

@MiyasMomma wrote:
Not to shed light on an old thread, but......Nichole, If I remember correctly you had just moved to the country? You asked awhile back on an issue, I can not remember exactly what the problem was....but I do remember a lot of us mentioning to try an e-collar. Did you try using it? I ask because they are a great tool for outside work and command training for a stubborn dog. You need to build respect in your guy. Command training in huskies is paramount, in that they are so independent, reeling them in and getting respect from them goes a long way. With Miya, she was a jumpy kind of dog too. I trained with her extensively. She will not jump on anyone, and I do not have to remind her, except to tell her to sit and be good when someone comes over. I do employ the game of me being Miya's prey, because she does need that type of play, but she only does that type of play with me. I can elaborate if you need me to. The thing is respect needs to be built here with you and Jasper, once he has respect for you, he will have respect for others.

His problem was that he lost all recall and would not come for anything at all at the park. We actually never ended up getting an ecollar because we couldn't find one in our town and were waiting until we went to the city again to pick one up, but we still worked on recall training in the meantime and ended up fixing the issue ourselves without the collar. His recall is great now and (not to jinx myself) he comes easily at the park again.

We had a local "trainer" (no actual qualifications, just a guy in town who has been known to help people with issues) in about the recall issue as well, and honestly I was not impressed. He suggested we try the "be the moose" training and increase his prey drive so that when we want him to come we act like prey and run away from him, but we ended up ignoring him and starting from scratch and fixing the issue ourselves .... we were afraid to try it because we have a cat and I don't want to do anything to increase his already fairly high prey drive. I know you can't train prey drive out of a husky but I do try to keep it at a low level.
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Sorry, i left and became Miya's prey for a while, lol. Nichole, his advice was good for a husky. Being prey to them, will offset the prey drive towards something or someone else. We had a cat up until a month ago, Miya would not antagonize the cat, because we are her prey. My husband does play to some extent this way. But I do most of the work with her. Get a long sleeve loose shirt and put it on. I do not allow Miya to initiate the play, I do. I wear the loose long sleeves, so when she jumps at me she typically grabs the shirt and not me, so it lessens the bites and bruises. I will grab a tug toy and initiate the game of tugs. I allow her to jump, bump, however she wants to play. I will run off with the tugs so she chases me, tackles me. I grrrr at her she grr's at me. I will toss tugs and we chase after it. I will get on the ground, on all fours, and be a dog and play. It really depends on how the two of you get creative. When I am done playing I say Miya enough. She will no longer be in that frame of mind. She is currently napping from our play. The key is you initiate and stop all play. Eventually, he should get the idea, that you are the one who is going to play this way, he also will learn that you control the play. When you say enough(or whatever command you choose), he should revert back to a calm dog.

Nichole, the e-collar can be bought online. There are a handful of us, me, Jeff, Amy, and Jenny, who are very successful with the e-collar, and we can all chime in and help you. Some dogs need more mental/physical stimulation than others. Its how you, the owner channels that, that makes a difference in a calm dog, or a spazz dog that appears aggressive. You can turn this handsome guy into a respectful dog, and it will not take a huge amount of your time. I am a firm believer in physically and mentally tiring out a dog, is far faster than just through exercise or command training alone. I also play the prey game, and incorporate commands as well. We can be in the middle of a complete war, and out of the blue I will tell Miya to sit and stay and then throw the tugs, she must sit and stay and then I release her to get the tugs and then the play resumes.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Behavior Problem   Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:03 pm

@nichole.1990 wrote:

We actually never ended up getting an ecollar because we couldn't find one in our town and were waiting until we went to the city again to pick one up, but we still worked on recall training in the meantime and ended up fixing the issue ourselves without the collar. His recall is great now and (not to jinx myself) he comes easily at the park again.


I have an Educator mini-educator - purchased online at Drs. Foster and Smith (free shipping, good return policy (I wasn't sure it would work.)  I initially bought a sportdog but it only had, I think 14 levels and to get that, you had 7 level which you to change from low to high level - not gonna' work when you suddenly need higher level.) I like the mini educator because it fits very nicely in my hand!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/dog-supplies/dog-training/ps/c/3307/9?s=ts&r=1181

You can also get them on Amazon as well as a bunch of other places.  I swear by mine!  Like the vibrate setting - my wimp rarely needs anything more lol!

EDIT: Also, Loucastle.com has easily followed instructions for finding training levels, fitting, training protocols etc. - though I sort of deviated. I ended up with velcro dog for a bit (damn sportdog had too wide intervals so 1 level not enough and the next too much Mad )
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