A forum for owners of the Siberian Husky.
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterRegisterLog in
Congratulations Tetra and Tiana!, our August HOTM winners! HOTM - September : TBA!
Husky of the Month
Congrats Tetra and Tiana,
our August HOTM Winners!
Don't Wanna!





Thanks to all for this month's entries!
Forum Rules
1. Here we prefer clarity to agreement. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on a topic; here we prefer to talk out our differences in a respectful manner to ensure mutual understanding and respect.
2. Read the Stickies and Announcements. Each sub-forum may have specific rules which trump the Forum Rules in cases where there may be conflicting information. Read the rules of each board before you post so that you are clear on the expectations of the staff.
3. Respect ALL Staff and Admins. These people volunteer of their time and MUST be respected as well as their word adhered to. They are responsible for maintaining a free, open, clear and organized forum. Anyone found to be openly undermining any official ruling by a staff member will be warned.
4. Signatures: One picture only and no links. Images: To keep the forum looking neat and tidy, we ask that members insert just one picture only in their signatures. The picture should be no more than 200x500 pixels and should be of an appropriate subject, for example, your dogs and their names. Should you need assistance creating an appropriate signature, please PM an Admin and we would be happy to help! This is to ensure that signatures remain a welcome addition to our forum instead of a cumbersome distraction. Links: Hyperlinks in signatures--unless to a personal blog or photo stream of your dogs (like Flckr or Piscasa, for example)--are strictly prohibited. Please PM a staff member with any questions or concerns regarding this rule.
Rescue Spotlight
Our current rescue spotlight is:

Tails of the Tundra Siberian Husky Rescue!

Top Dog Website Award Winner!

Top Website
for
Siberian

Huskys


Share | .
 

 Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:43 am

Mylo is currently 8 months old. Generally he's a good pup, playful, really lazy, loves to be with us and just everything a husky is. We love him very very much but he bit my girlfriend hard last night and that made us re-evaluate the way we've been raising him. She was even brought to tears so I told her I would share this here.
Maybe it's our fault for letting him play with socks sometimes (socks that dont have a pair). He got a good pair of her socks and as she reached to grab them from him..he snapped. He has never snapped like that with a toy but what if he does?
He has food aggression…something that my girlfriend can't stand anymore. I've always managed around that issue and haven't ever tried aggressive methods to make it worse or anything I just left it alone.
My girl thinks it's her fault for him being that way and feels like a bad pet parent. She grew up with a lab for 10 years. So everything thats happening with Mylo she compares with the lab. I've told her that it has nothing to do with us, I know for a fact thats something he learned as a baby pup…
Why do I say that?

Well, here's a story I've never told here..

Let's go back to November 18, 2014…the big day we got to pick up Mylo…at 6 weeks of age. Everyone was picking up their pup so we went along also to not leave Mylo alone without his pup mates.
Everything went smooth. We got home and fed him dinner. We were all close to him and he was just eating not minding us there.

Then things got sad and rocky..
Without getting in to deep specifics. After two days...We had to return him. This was horribly devastating to us but we had to do it.
I go back to the breeder to return all the stuff he came with and I see Mylo mixed up with a litter of 7 pups, much younger than him.
The next day Mylo was in a new home. She didn't re sell him but just found a new home for him with a lady that the breeder knew.

Then things happened..turns out we can have him, so we asked the breeder if we could have him back. At this point we didn't know she had rehomed him already so we had our hopes up about just simply asking to have him back. After almost a week with no new response from the breeder, we gave up on having him back. Then suddenly we get a message saying he's back and ready for us.
We were extremely happy. We went for him the next day. Now he's 8 weeks old.
I remember the breeder said that the lady that had him had an older dog and he wasn't getting along with Mylo. The lady was okay with giving him back, and she also knew all the specifics that lead to returning him.

A few weeks passed and I remember he pushed the water bowl as he was eating so I moved the bowl back while he was still eating and he snapped at me…He didn't bite me but he wanted me away from his bowl area. I was in shock at this behavior…
I got the long rope toy and put it right on top of the food and he snapped at it and attacked.
I tried hand feeding him, he was cool. Holding the bowl while he eats, he was cool. After that I just left it alone.
You can't be near directly near him when he's eating. Sometimes my girl isn't even near and he looks back and stares at her suspiciously.

Is it too late to try fixing this?
I'm sure it's gonna have to be professional help.
I know it was wrong of us letting it slide by all this time.
Oh and also I got in to a habit of wrestling with him…I should stop that.


Thanks to whoever will read all this!
Here's 8 month old Mylo!






I continue to believe that he's really small for his age, he was still only 30 pounds when he was at the vet at 7 months old. He hasn't changed much and doesn't feel heavier to me. He's only a little bit over the knee. I don't mind a smaller husky at all though. I'm just saying haha.


Last edited by davecerv on Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
Rumflower
Adult
Adult
avatar

Female Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : Kansas City

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:34 am

The aspca has some good articles on dog behavior. I found this on food aggression. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/food-guarding

Sorry I can't be of more help. Do you go to training classes with him? My trainer is usually willing to help me with things outside of the curriculum.
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:45 am

Ohh that's a good read, thanks! And when I had Mylo in puppy classes, the trainers there were really just locked on their curriculum and anything outside of what was happening in class was extra money for private training.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
aljones
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:16 am

Dave, I'll tell you what ... since you're having such bad problems with Mylo, you just need to bring him over here, it seems as if I'm working to add a third.  (Okay, I'll get serious.)

If you remember, I've got a girl who's food aggressive and as you're finding out, there is no fast, easy fix. Sasha's bitten me five times now - last time took four stitches! You really don't need to repeat my stupidity, I'm not sure who's the slower learner, her or me (well, yes I do, but be nice, let's not go there, eh??)

Sasha's now at the point that I can add food to her bowl, move around her when she's eating, she even let's the cat look at her food without bothering him.  Do I feel confident that I could just reach down, unannounced and take her bowl while she's eating? Not really, but I do think we're getting there.  I've had her for over three years, the first time she bit me was within three months of the time I brought her home, the last time was just over a year ago - but how about I tell you some of what I've done that seems to have worked for me.

First, since you and your girlfriend are involved, you're both going to have to work on this problem.  You both have to agree to do the same things, the same way.  It does no good if you're being strict and girlfriend gives him pizza on a whim.

Secondly, Sasha's on a pretty strict NILIF regime.  If she wants to eat, it's set and stay until I tell her it's okay.  She seldom gets anything besides her dog food, sometimes I'll give her a piece of tortilla when I'm eating, but not if she's begging (she's learned that setting and staring does not work!) and she has to take it gently, no grabbing.  Yesterday she got a part of a cucumber that I brought in from the garden and was too big for me to eat.  The only "treat" she gets is once a day and that's her joint chewable - has to set and behave and then she gets it tossed to her (play time).

After she bit me last time, Sasha spent about three days outside.  The only contact she got with me was when I went out to feed her and check on her water - I was seriously thinking it was time to end this madness and put her down - but that wasn't the agreement I made with her, I adopted her and told her that I'd take care of her.  Part of taking care of her has been being willing to work through the rough spots - and as I said, some of them have been rough.

You've said that you can hand feed him without a problem, you've also said that you can hold his bowl while he's eating.  What happens if you have the bowl while he's eating and you move it or take it away?  Part of what I did was to put a little food in Sasha's bowl and then take it back to add more - eventually reaching the point that I could pull it back while she was eating to add more (she was not / is not happy to have me take it away but when she knows I'll be giving her more, she accepts it.)  I still, from time to time, will hold her bowl and make sure she knows that *I* control the food, not her.

When I first started working with her (again) after the last bite, was when I started putzing around her when she was eating.  Walking past her so that she had to move (breaking her fixation on the food); putting my hand almost literally in her face to add a couple of more kibble to her bowl (again breaking the fixation and making her realize that my hand around her food was not a bad thing)

So, to make this less of a book, here's what I'd do with Mylo and you can tell me what you've done and what the results have been.  (More or less in the order that I've done them)

  • Holding the food bowl and letting her (talking about Sasha) eat. In this, it's been a matter of putting a dozen kibbles in the bowl, never a full serving.
  • Making her set and wait to eat. Since you're holding the bowl, it's easy enough to just move it out of the way if he moves before you release him.
  • Adding kibble as she's eating.
  • Taking the bowl away to add kibble.  We did this for probably about a month ...
  • I'd set on the floor and set the bowl, more or less, in my lap so that I was right there (almost literally 'in her face') as she was eating.
  • Continuing to add food to the bowl while she was eating (my presence and hand aren't a bad thing)  Notice that through all of this, *I* control the food - if she misbehaved the food went away!

She now gets her food in the bowl on the floor; waits (im?)patiently till I tell her she can 'get it'; doesn't object if I add food as she's eating.  She may snap at Avalanche or Tommy if they invade her space while she's eating, but it's much more a 'proforma' (get outta my face) snap than anything serious - I haven't seen her make contact with either of them in nine months or so (okay, kitty was a late addition, but she regularly seriously chased Avalanche away from her food; Avalanche doesn't bother her food bowl so neither of them seem to be overly concerned.)

My sage advice at this point is to make sure that both you and your girlfriend are involved.  That's probably going to be uncomfortable for her at the moment but it's going to be an absolute that she has to be involved if she wants to feel safe around Mylo while he's eating. Do not try to rush anything, take slow definite steps and make sure that everyone is comfortable with the progress before going on to the next one.

As I said, this is not something you're going to 'cure' overnight; his past experience says that *he* the boss about his food and you need to make him realize that it's your food that you're letting him have - if he's good, he gets it; if he's not then he doesn't.

belatedly just read the ASPCA article referenced by Danielle, they do a better job of writing than I did, but it's much the same idea. I'm not too sure about the idea of using treats but understand the logic.
Back to top Go down
amymeme
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:22 pm

Al, I could not have said it better - Dave, I think the protocol Al outlined should yield results.

Hopefully, Girlfriend is not afraid of Mylo now, that fear could be conveyed and make things a little more difficult.
Back to top Go down
GravityM
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2014-09-19
Location : Temecula, CA

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:43 pm

Sorry have no advice on the behavior part but.. He is still a puppy and will grow, dont worry about his size. I think Miya weighed 26 at 7 months I thought she was starving lol. Shes now a year old and about 30ish. So he is a little smaller but typical breed standard huskies not as big as everyone thinks(mini husky pfftt as ppl call my girl) He is very cute btw and has grown so much
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:51 pm

Hey thanks Aljones!
Mylo sits every time before the bowl comes down. I've never tried taking away the bowl with my hand though, I haven't dared. I do however sometimes get close and throw kibble down while he's still eating.
I'm definitely gonna try putting a few kibble pieces and then taking the bowl and adding some more.
I'll start tomorrow morning and I'm gonna video record all of these interactions. And yes we are going to be working together as we have been since we got him. We know there isn't a cure over night but it would be nice to bring it down a notch.

@amymeme she isn't scared of him but now she's just not being as lovey dovey towards him so frequently since the bite.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
Artic_Wind
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:08 pm

I think the aspca article is a good read. The only thing I would stress to you is to make sure your girl is actively involved with every aspect. Kohdi is probably the most laid back easy going husky I've ever had...however, he's also the only husky I've ever had who has "guarded" anything. Never food though, Mainly bones given to him to chew on, and it started out of the blue so I have my own theory on how it got started. The reason I stress making sure your gf is as involved as possible is because I have him to where I can take his bone away without issue , but no one else can. Not so much an issue except that I have someone coming here to watch them during the day (incidentally it's the same person who I theorize unintentionally created the problem) and since she can't take a bone away from him, then it's not safe to give him bones while I'm not there, so she has instructions on absolutely no bones for the dogs.

Good luck to you! Mylo looks awesome!
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:28 pm

Here's me doing the holding the bowl technique again for dinner.
Probably not as bad as y'all were expecting but I'm not even gonna try to move the bowl while he's eating until after a week maybe.
If y'all notice at the beginning, he reacted to me getting close to the bowl after he was done.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:42 pm

@Artic_Wind wrote:
I think the aspca article is a good read. The only thing I would stress to you is to make sure your girl is actively involved with every aspect. Kohdi is probably the most laid back easy going husky I've ever had...however, he's also the only husky I've ever had who has "guarded" anything. Never food though, Mainly bones given to him to chew on, and it started out of the blue so I have my own theory on how it got started. The reason I stress making sure your gf is as involved as possible is because I have him to where I can take his bone away without issue , but no one else can. Not so much an issue except that I have someone coming here to watch them during the day (incidentally it's the same person who I theorize unintentionally created the problem) and since she can't take a bone away from him, then it's not safe to give him bones while I'm not there, so she has instructions on absolutely no bones for the dogs.

Good luck to you! Mylo looks awesome!

Yes Im gonna have her try holding the bowl while he eats tomorrow. She's never tried it. I have in the past when he was younger. She's confused as to why he is so clingy towards her but he's aggressive with his food. Also were working with him being calm in the room while someone is eating in the kitchen...I always just entertained him with little almond butter spread on my hand until whoever was eating finished. I realize that isn't good either so today I stayed standing by the door blocking him and facing away from him. He couldn't stand it but he stayed silent throughout.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
GravityM
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2014-09-19
Location : Temecula, CA

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:50 pm

Ok me watching that ..completly my opinion agree or dissagree.

He needs to learn to wait!! If Miya did that to me the second I put her food bowl down I woulda have smacked her little nose and said a stern NO until she sits and waits. Dont look so unsure when putting the bowl down slowly just put it down with cofidence tell him to sit stay if he moved move him back or pick up the bowl like you did try again in 5 minutes hell get it eventually. Wait or dont eat. Might sound mean but you really have to have discipline with these dogs lol or they will walk all over you!! Hope that helped
Back to top Go down
aljones
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:53 pm

@Arctic_Wind  Jimmy, the only real problem I have with the ASPCA article is "do this for 10 meals" when it should read "do this for ten consecutive meals where there are no bad reactions."   They seem to be giving the impression that the 10 meals is some sort of magic.  I do particularly like the "disclaimer" of not doing this if the dog is simply, plainly aggressive.
I had my cousins GSD when I was a teen ager (about 18).  The police in Syracuse told him the dog had to go.  She was extremely aggressive toward anyone except my cousin - the fact that she was being unmercifully teased by kids walking to and from school didn't play a part in the police telling him that she had to go but it was the real cause of Kim's aggression.  It took me a long time with a very skittish dog before I'd even walk into her chains circle to put food down but eventually love and consistent care won her over.  It's not easy, is not without its "opportunities" for both good and bad behaviour but it's worth the effort.

@davecerv  You say that Mylo has to set while you put the food down, you don't say whether he has to stay until you release him ... does he / do you?

I'd be very interested in seeing the videos you take of your interaction.  

A question, you say "I've never tried taking away the bowl with my hand though, I haven't dared." It sounds to me like you're a bit<??> afraid of him as well.  Are you?  Has he actually broken skin when he's "bitten" or is it more of a warning?

A comment on my implementation of NILIF - it's initially an absolute!  If the pup wants out then it's set and wait, properly, as you put leash on; set and wait til you release him to go out; if you want some freedom (away from a heel position) then you won't jump, won't pull, as soon as they try to jump/pull I take the leash right by the collar and they're in "heel".  If you let him on the furniture then it's by invitation only, if he gets on the couch without permission, he gets his feet put back on the floor (an in house leash comes in handy here).  At first, at the very least the "N" in NILIF is absolute - NOTHING in life is free.
It's all part and parcel of the same package - you have to teach him without aggression on your part that you're the boss.

Looks like I have to learn how to type faster or maybe not think as much.

"Leave it" -vs- "stay" - when you're feeding the command should be "stay" and the release should be "get it" (your choice but short and simple).  Leave it, to me, is when I drop something and they head toward it - "Leave it!" Leave it means it's mine - don't touch<period>.  "Set -> Stay" means exactly that, you'll put your furry butt on the floor and stay right there until I tell you otherwise.

The first time you put the bowl down you let him move and get the food without a "stay" - he's the boss.  The second and third time you made him leave it, but he was still moving around, he's trying to control the situation - you have to enforce, consistently, that he gets NOTHING! unless he does it right.

@GravityM  We're all entitled to our opinions here, right? Smile Basically I agree with you with one exception, with a dog who's exhibiting any signs of agression I've found it better to work without "smack[ing] her little nose."  While I understand the feeling and with most dogs it'd do nothing but set them back, with Mylo, it might just prompt him to bite since his focus is on the food.

@davecerv Since no one has added to this book, I thought I'd go back to your original message.
This may sound like an odd question, but can you tell the difference between a snap, a contact snap and a bite. BTW contact snap is my own invention so take it with a grain of salt.
Typically we can say, I think, that when a dog bites a person the skin is broken and torn. There's a lot more emotionally going on with both the human and the dog, but lets just go for a simple definition at first.
A contact snap is simply what it sounds like, it's a bite without breaking the skin. The dog has learned enough about bite inhibition to know how much pressure to apply.
A snap is non-contact - basically it's "I don't like that!" / "Don't do that!" For example, Sasha's blowing her coat still! and I was brushing it out; turned the direction around so I was brushing against the grain and she turned around and snapped - nothing serious, just "Don't do that!" She can't talk and I have no problem with her expressing displeasure that way.
When a dog seriously bites it's because it thinks it has no other way to make it's point. It's past the point of a warning snap, it's beyond "I don't like that!" I'm going to suggest that what Mylo did was a contact(??) snap with your GF but that's still enough to scare most folks.

The other topic you mention, tug of war with socks and wrestling. There's nothing inherently wrong with either of these activities - but it must be on your terms. Again with the example - Avalanche like to tease Sasha and they start playing, since their outdoor leads don't allow them to interact I don't object to play in the house - up to a point. Running and zoomies, no problem, just don't run into things. Play fighting, no problem, just don't destroy the place. And when I say Enough! that's the end of it, now! Avalanche and I tend to play rough, he gets pummeled, I get "bit" but there's no harm done but again, "Enough!" stops it - cold. I'll take their rope toy and flip it at Avalanche and eventually he'll grab it for tug, sometimes he wins, sometimes I win, no big deal - but when I drop the rope, that's the end of it.
You get the idea, play time is fine, but it's on my terms!

Personally I'm not too keen on trying to take something away from a dog. If they have it and they want it they will protect it - and if it's your hand trying to take it, you may get bit. A lot better approach is teaching "drop it", "leave it". With Avalanche, I can literally take something away from him, he may not be happy but he'll let me take it and he will drop it if I tell him to, again, he's not too happy but he will. Sasha's still at the point of "Nope, it's mine! and you are really not going to get it!" but she's been a work in progress since I first got her. She's gradually getting the idea of "leave it" if she doesn't already have it, but "drop it" - well, maybe some day. For the nonce if she wants it bad enough and I can't distract her by moving on past whatever (she's on lead most of the time outside) then it's hers ... oh well.

Professional help - you're dedicated to Mylo, I can tell that from the way you write. If you can see gradual improvement in his behaviour, then no, you can do this. If it gets worse then I'd seek a professional ... but remember what they're going to do is to teach you how to handle the situation.

And you said that your initial post was going to be a long read ... anyone for a book?? Smile






Last edited by aljones on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:30 pm

Thank you @GravityM and @aljones for responding to my posts! I really appreciate it. This is why forums exist and why I love it.

Anyway, normally before starting this holding the bowl thing I would just have him sit then I out the bowl down and tell him "take it" but to be honest I've never let him wait long at all probably just a few seconds. It slipped on me not saying leave it on the first drop on the video! I'm gonna start saying "stay" and "get it" now. I've been saying that to him because back in his puppy class days that's what the trainer told us to use with treats (having treats in hand and having them sit and saying take it) which Mylo did good with that.

Oh and @aljones I just said the "I don't dare" thing not because I'm scared of being bitten but he has bitten me before (not related to this food/bowl thing). A couple months back he got a napkin and when I reached for it he snapped. But again he's cool with toys. But he does give warnings with being near the food bowl while he's eating. He freezes and stares before he makes a sound or a quick head move.

I will be enforcing this holding the bowl procedure and recording it and maybe putting the clips together on the weekends. We are committed to make a change.
Honestly I don't know if I should feel bad for having Mylo with these habits or feel good that we're trying to do improvements Neutral ?
Is his level of resource guarding severe?

**@aljones Just read the added paragraphs to the book**

I get your contact/non-contact snap.
Mylo does the non-contact snap when he wants something to stop like the end to a belly rub session or also with brushing.
What happened with my girl was definitely a contact snap, he tore in, should I post the pic of her hand?

And ohh okay great, wrestling is okay as long as I stop the sessions, cool. I love wrestling with him haha and I try a "drop it" technique but I think it's more like Im bribing him to drop it.

Yeah thanks thats exactly what I'm trying to express through these posts. We're fully committed to this furry kid, we love him so much.

He's a wonderful pup besides this stuff, he's so calm and lazy. He's a good walker. He loves to be with us..I think we got lucky cause he never had a problem with collars or leashes and he's a potty champion.


Last edited by davecerv on Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
amymeme
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:37 pm

@davecerv wrote:

Honestly I don't know if I should feel bad for having Mylo with these habits or feel good that we're trying to do improvements Neutral ?

Dave, in all my training, I think in terms of "what would happen to Ami if something were to happen to me? I owe it to Ami to make him a socially acceptable animal that would be adoptable should we become incapacitated or die. Ditto, things that keep him safe - his invisible fence, his prong collar, heeling when in high traffic situations, come when called, drop it/leave it...all necessary to his ultimate safety. You are being the good parent by training him.
Back to top Go down
Artic_Wind
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:51 pm

Al, I completely agree with you. Honestly, when the article came to the "treat" part, I just started skimming...there's information I want to absorb, and information I don't care to absorb. It was the first few paragraphs of the article I found most interesting. Personally, I don't think "treats" should play a part in resource guarding...overcoming resource guarding should come down to a respect and trust between you and your dog. It takes time (and apparently the treat system does too) but I think in the end, the respect/trust/bond between the two of you is stronger and goes beyond just the resource guarding aspect. And...in all honesty, I don't particularly agree with the picking up of the bowl to add kibble (or for any reason) the dog should be left alone to eat. Most people would have a shit fit if a dog interferes at all while we eat, but it's ok to interfere with a dog eating. Kibble or whatever, can be added when they've finished their meal. I understand it's basically for training but still. In situations like this, simply being in the same room, going about business as usual, even sitting near the dog and like the article said, make casual small talk, in itself will form a trust by the dog realizing over time that he's not in danger of his food being taken away. But I also have no experience in food aggression, Kohdi actually will not eat unless I'm in the room with him most of the time. Mishka wolfs her food down regardless, haha.

@davecerv...to get back to the sock...EXACTLY what happened (any words, or actions) before your girl got bit...and exactly what happened after your girl got bit?
Back to top Go down
Artic_Wind
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:58 pm

Dang it! I accidentally gave Dave a bad treat on his video, I HATE this iPad sometimes, can someone reverse it for me please?
Back to top Go down
showjumperachel
Newborn
Newborn
avatar

Male Join date : 2015-06-23
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:00 am

Im going to start with a major disclaimer. I am new to this forum and relatively new to huskies in general, so you should probably take what I have to with a grain of salt Smile.

As far as aggression goes, I have nothing to offer (sorry!). But from watching the video, and forgive me if I've missed something, it seems like Mylo doesn't know when the "sit" command is over. When I tell Brady to sit, he knows to sit (or lay down or whatever), until i give him the "ok" to get up. So he sits until I say "release" and then he knows he was good and can get up/eat his food/whatever. He was never really severely foos aggressive, but I find having a command that basically says, "ok, you can get up now/stop doing what I asked" to be very valuable. Obviously this doesn't happen overnight - I can only get Brady to sit/down/whatever for Aprox 2 minutes, but you can work your way up. I also like using the "release" because it eliminates a need for a stay command

Hope this was at least somewhat beneficial. Mylo is adorable, by the way. Best of luck! Smile
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:18 am

@Artic_Wind wrote:
Al, I completely agree with you. Honestly, when the article came to the "treat" part, I just started skimming...there's information I want to absorb, and information I don't care to absorb. It was the first few paragraphs of the article I found most interesting. Personally, I don't think "treats" should play a part in resource guarding...overcoming resource guarding should come down to a respect and trust between you and your dog. It takes time (and apparently the treat system does too) but I think in the end, the respect/trust/bond between the two of you is stronger and goes beyond just the resource guarding aspect. And...in all honesty, I don't particularly agree with the picking up of the bowl to add kibble (or for any reason) the dog should be left alone to eat. Most people would have a shit fit if a dog interferes at all while we eat, but it's ok to interfere with a dog eating. Kibble or whatever, can be added when they've finished their meal. I understand it's basically for training but still. In situations like this, simply being in the same room, going about business as usual, even sitting near the dog and like the article said, make casual small talk, in itself will form a trust by the dog realizing over time that he's not in danger of his food being taken away. But I also have no experience in food aggression, Kohdi actually will not eat unless I'm in the room with him most of the time. Mishka wolfs her food down regardless, haha.

@davecerv...to get back to the sock...EXACTLY what happened (any words, or actions) before your girl got bit...and exactly what happened after your girl got bit?

Yeah I'm just trying this holding the bow thing for now. Before I would just leave him alone eating but my girl really wants us to try to do something about this. He does pretty well with me just hanging around or walking by when he's eating though it's just the moment when you get directly in his space..thats when he says "get awaay from here!!!"

And about the exact detailed sock bite story, here it goes. Of course these things happen when I'm at work..
So my girl gave him his dinner and as usual after he's done he feels a little playful. He climbed up on the bed and he found a good pair of socks and he got them…she reached to grab them and she was able to grab them but when she pulled BAAMM thats when he took a bite..after that happened she got him out of the room and ignored him the rest of the night. No screaming or physical contact from my girls part. I told her she did excellent.

I brought some food when I got home that night and normally he's close to us trying to catch if something falls but he just laid there and didn't bother us. He knew what was up.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:29 am

@showjumperachel wrote:
Im going to start with a major disclaimer. I am new to this forum and relatively new to huskies in general, so you should probably take what I have to with a grain of salt Smile.

As far as aggression goes, I have nothing to offer (sorry!). But from watching the video, and forgive me if I've missed something, it seems like Mylo doesn't know when the "sit" command is over. When I tell Brady to sit, he knows to sit (or lay down or whatever), until i give him the "ok" to get up. So he sits until I say "release" and then he knows he was good and can get up/eat his food/whatever. He was never really severely foos aggressive, but I find having a command that basically says, "ok, you can get up now/stop doing what I asked" to be very valuable. Obviously this doesn't happen overnight - I can only get Brady to sit/down/whatever for Aprox 2 minutes, but you can work your way up. I also like using the "release" because it eliminates a need for a stay command

Hope this was at least somewhat beneficial. Mylo is adorable, by the way. Best of luck! Smile


Hey thanks @snowjumperachel.
Normally when he's sitting and I put the bowl on the floor I tell him "take it" and he goes for it after I say that but if you noticed when I was saying "take it" while holding the bowl he wasn't going for it as if he was waiting for me to put it directly on the floor without me holding it. But I will try to slowly increase the wait time for sure!
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
Artic_Wind
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:08 am

How did it go today?
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:55 am

@Artic_Wind wrote:
How did it go today?



Breakfast was a little challenge making him wait to start munchin.
I decided not to do the holding the bowl thing anymore and just focus on having him wait after I put the bowl down and getting it up again to put some more. I was trying to upload the video but got some reason it wasn't starting to upload but I'll try again tomorrow.
But anyways, he understands "stay" and "take it". It even got to the point where he just laid down after a while and that's when I told him to take it. It's just the waiting part I didn't really exercise in the last. I only ever did sit and after a few seconds take it.
My girl has decided to hand feed him cause she's a bit scared to try what I'm doing and she did tonight for dinner. It went well she said. So I think since she prefers the hand feeding then I'll stick to that you and when she feels more comfortable then we will do the bowl and wait together. We agreed to stick with the hand feeding for a week or so.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
aljones
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:34 am

@Artic_Wind  Jimmy, for some reason I can't seem to tag you (might help if I spelled your handle the same way you misspelled it Smile ).  I don't think I ever suggested taking the bowl from (any dog) while they're eating ... like you I don't want a dog invading my space while I'm eating so I think it reasonable to leave them alone while they are.  I did say (I think) that I'd put a little food in Sasha's bowl, let her eat that and then pick her bowl up to put more food into it. Almost as if there were several meals in one session, until her quota was used up.  The idea, at least for me, was to get her used to the idea that my hands might be around her food bowl (and that's a good thing) and that she must wait till I release her before she goes to eat.  I would like to get her to the point that I could take her bowl while she's eating if I needed to - we're not there yet. Just for an example, we all know that sometimes odd things get packaged along with the food - if I weren't to see it till after I'd set the bowl down, I'd like to be at a point where we're both comfortable with me taking the bowl.

@davecerv I won't say that I disagree with the content of the AKC<?> article since what I outlined follows, almost step for step, what they suggest.  There are specific reasons for taking it slow and easy, a step at a time.  If you want me to really outline the process and the reasons for them I can.  You give the impression that "a week or so" is going to work - simply, it's not. Mylo is younger and has, basically, only been your dog so training him should go faster but you're still looking at 6 months (give or take) of very consistent training to reach the point that he's not going to be uncomfortable with you doing things to / with him while he's eating.  

If he's uncomfortable with you holding his food, too bad.  The object to all of this to to instill that comfort.  You're not going to take his food and never feed him again - that's the mindset you have to overcome.
Back to top Go down
davecerv
Adult
Adult
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-09-20
Location : Houston, TX

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:57 am

@aljones
You got me all wrong lol what I meant by hand feeding for a week or so is that after a couple of weeks we will advance and start grabbing the bowl and putting more at a time. I know this will take time and were both all for it bounce
Today's breakfast hand feeding went well, he's getting to the point where he just lays and then I tell him to take it. He even started to drool when I was telling him to stay! First time I've ever seen him drool haha

And for some reason YouTube isn't uploading my videos right now, I am still recording every interaction though. I will put them here as soon as it's possible!
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/davecerv
Artic_Wind
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:00 pm

@Al...I misspelled it on purpose Wink I really wish I could change the entire name to something different without losing all my history, like post counts and stuff but...anyways...

I apologize if you thought I directed my comment about taking the bowl away while they are eating, *at *you. That wasn't my intention. I don't always express my thoughts clearly when "written" and that is why you won't see me post often in the more serious discussions. But yeah, I agree, it is a "good thing" for one to be able to take a bowl away while they are eating. But I also think that in general, a dog should have his space when he eats. I have zero experience with resource guarding as far as food is concerned, my two now and my huskies in the past never had issues with that, so while I will follow this thread with interest, I won't confuse it anymore by adding anything. Kohdi's resource guarding of his bone, while still resource guarding and similar in many respects, to me is a little different, and was handled a little different. I say this because I can do whatever I want with Kohdi's food, but I wasn't able to do that for awhile if Kohdi had a bone. Now, if only I could conquer putting ear drops in his ears when he needs them <sighs>






Back to top Go down
aljones
Senior
Senior
avatar

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:43 pm

Oh jeeze guys! Dave, I did misread your intention so my bad. I'll also presume that you're using "grab" in the sense of picking it up after he's eating what's there rather than "snatching" it up. Sometime <??> I tend to be way too literal for my own good!

Jimmy, don't you dare drop out of this conversation, please! I don't often take any of the comments here personally, we're here for one thing and that's to share our experiences - good and bad, with our dogs or with our gardens (can I tell you how jealous of yours *I* am?)

There are times though that I wish others would become involved because this seems to be a discourse between David and me with little input from anyone else and I appreciate others thoughts.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]   

Back to top Go down
 

Concerns about Mylo.. (Warning: long read) [NEW VIDEO UPDATE]

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
It's a Husky Thing - Siberian Husky Forum :: Pack Members :: Scrapbooks-