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 Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.

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Playing with the Big Dogs
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PostSubject: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:51 pm

So Simon has/is developing some annoying tendencies. He still goes to daycare all the time and for the most part is a model citizen there. Gets along with most dogs but mainly does his own thing.

However when on leash he tends to react to other dogs a lot more. At first when he was younger it mostly seamed to be husky temper tantrums. I figured he was just throwing a fit because he wanted to say hi to and maybe play with the other dog and the leash was stopping him.

Recently it seams like he will lock eyes with a dog if he is what he feels like is to close and even if the other dog has no real reaction he tends to start growling and making angry noises. Also after he has a bad reaction to a dog even if they are like 15 ft away he will still puff up and start growling. Sometimes he will then be a dick to any dog of that breed for a few hours. Last week we had an issue with him being pissed at a borzoi and then he decided he didn't like either and would be an ass whenever we got close to them.

I mostly try to go with a mostly positive approach to training and I figured I could try to work on better attention and focus but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask for some feed back.

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Playing with the Big Dogs
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:40 pm

Bump?

Please guys I am not sure what is the best way to handle this. It sucks wanting to go to dog things and not being sure how your dog is going to behave. I get that not all dogs like each other and honestly I don't want or expect him to but I don't want him to behave like as asshole in public.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:56 pm

I can't help at all from personal experience but you might get some insight from this ASPCA link.

I can't picture having a negatively leash reactive dog, one of mine (Sasha) just isn't bothered and Avalanche just wants to play.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:18 am

Elise, I read this earlier, but I really didn't have much to offer you as far as advice. My only thought was redirection to you, and after reading the article Al gave you it is a way to control the problem. To me that is a positive way to help, I would try to place Simon in a sit and have his focus on you until the other dog has passed by. I personally don't like the u-turn advice, because you are in essence avoiding the issue and you have to change where you want to go. Having his focus to you and him following your directions(commands), I think in the end, an even stronger bond than what you already have with Simon would be built. Now of course this is imho, but it would be the way I would handle it with Miya if we had that problem. I am baffled really, since he is with you all the time and with other dogs all the time. I also know that you have taken him to competitions, and he seemed fine with you then. Has there been any significant changes in your routines? Or, and please don't see this as rude, but are you 100% positive he is being aggressive and not just wanting to play? Did he have a negative experience with a particular breed? And for the life of me I can not remember if Simon in neutered? If he is not he may be acting out, since he maturing. The reason for my questions,  I just think there would be an underlying reason why an almost 2 year old dog would all of a sudden change his behavior.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:54 am

I read this, Elise but Ami is so utterly friendly that the concept of an"asshole" dog is beyond me. I'm sorry I don't have anything to add.
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:52 pm

@MiyasMomma wrote:
Elise, I read this earlier, but I really didn't have much to offer you as far as advice. My only thought was redirection to you, and after reading the article Al gave you it is a way to control the problem. To me that is a positive way to help, I would try to place Simon in a sit and have his focus on you until the other dog has passed by. I personally don't like the u-turn advice, because you are in essence avoiding the issue and you have to change where you want to go. Having his focus to you and him following your directions(commands), I think in the end, an even stronger bond than what you already have with Simon would be built. Now of course this is imho, but it would be the way I would handle it with Miya if we had that problem. I am baffled really, since he is with you all the time and with other dogs all the time. I also know that you have taken him to competitions, and he seemed fine with you then. Has there been any significant changes in your routines? Or, and please don't see this as rude, but are you 100% positive he is being aggressive and not just wanting to play? Did he have a negative experience with a particular breed? And for the life of me I can not remember if Simon in neutered? If he is not he may be acting out, since he maturing. The reason for my questions,  I just think there would be an underlying reason why an almost 2 year old dog would all of a sudden change his behavior.

First thing don't worry about being rude I would rather people try to communicate and help then worry about my feelings. Smile At the competition he had one reaction to a dog. It was a German Shepard and we went right after each other in the ring and the dogs just looked at each other and decided that they didn't like each other. On the plus side the German Shepard's owner was very on the ball so we both made an effort to give each other extra space. I went over to her after (without Simon) to apologize for my dog growling and her's and she told me that he dog was just about to do the same thing. He has had minor reactions when on leash to other dogs since he was a little pup. I just figured as we worked together and he became more confidant it would go away so I didn't mention it on here. But he seams to be having bigger louder reactions and it's embarrassing so I figure I would ask for tips. I think it started as wanting to play when he was younger but now it really seams pretty aggressive. Not only is he making the husky growling noises but he gets a puffed up. There are breeds he tends to do worse with. German Shepherds are one of them. Now he has meet and played with them at work with no problem. The only thing I know that happened is once across the bleachers he locked eyes with my friends young male GS and when I noticed and tired to move him back they both verbally blew up. Simon is still intact I just have a hard time justifying surgery to correct a behavioral issue. So it's not really a change in behavior its just getting a little more often and loud.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:19 pm

I work in refocusing and it has helped my dog some. The key is to take the attention before the eye lock and focus happens. With the time when Simon and the other dog blew up when you moved him he had already fixated and was in the zone. The challenge was already set forth between the two dogs and they were both ready to stand their ground and you disrupted it but not early enough on to keep from a blow up. Kenzi is super territorial, dominant, and leash reactive. As far as fixing him it might help some if his dog issue is only ever with other males. At daycare he can establish himself and he and other dogs can work out their differences quickly before much thought is put into it and anything can escalate. On leash they don't get that opportunity to set their own boundaries ahead of time and instead get ample time to stare at each other and then worry and wonder and try other ways to set their limits and communicate. You need to disrupt all that thought process.

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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:20 pm

Elise, excuse a comment here that is probably going to sound condescending - if it does, excuse me (ignore me).

I'm going to go with what amounts to an extension of my "house leash" suggestion.  You've said that he plays well with (most?/all?) other dogs when he's off lead.  Dogs, as we all know, in a tense situation are all either "fight or flight" and when he's on lead he can't "flee" so the result comes out as aggression (fight).  

What would happen if he had a leash on without you at the other end?  I'm thinking in terms of a play date where you've just "dropped the leash" to let him play and then, from time to time, you pick up the leash again.  Logic say that he's in a good situation, one where he wants to play; he also has to respond to you when you pick up the leash, which he appears willing to do.  The logic here says that you should be able to bring him to heal, release him again to go back to play ... repeat as you're comfortable ... with the leash on him where you can control the situation I'm thinking that you might be able to desensitize him to the lead over a time.  Of course, you'd have to be aware of what's going on since no one wants a dog to get tangled up and possibly hurt ... but barring any bad incidences, I'm thinking this approach might help?
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:28 pm

Elise, that explains a lot. Unfortunately, his behavior, again, imho, is twofold, it seems he directs this behavior with other males and other males that may still be intact as well?, and males who are bigger than him. It may not be a simple fix if you choose to keep him intact. I can site examples, but as you already know since working where you do, you probably know these examples, but......my neighbor has 2 male dogs both intact, and they will fight to the death if allowed, one a 100 pound black lab, the other a 50 pound husky. Who starts the argument, the husky, why? Because he is smaller. I don't think Simon's reaction is all based on leash reactivity, but probably the typical small dog syndrome and being intact, and male dogs do have hormones, especially if there is a female dog any where near(maybe not in sight range), or if food is nearby(that is what happened with the lab and husky). The other example, when we went to Petsmart this little male chi started growling at Miya, and the owner laughed, and said he had little dog syndrome.

Again, Elise, I don't have a broad knowledge on how to correct this, my personal advice is if he doesn't need to be intact, like for showing, I know he would have to be; I would get him neutered and see if his attitude changes. The other issue, as far as being smaller and showing he is a tough guy towards bigger dogs, when on leash I would have him in a sit and stay and 100% focus on you, use rewards so he knows that that is what you want from him. And any of the other advice the article gave you. If this is an escalating problem.......I witnessed a leash reactive male GSD, when we went to the training center to put down a deposit on our new puppy. He did wear a muzzle at the beginning of the class, the trainer brought over the least reactive male gsd to him, and had both owners place their dogs in a sit, while the owners spoke, the dogs remained in a sit, after a minute or so, each told their dogs good boys, as the day progressed the muzzle came off and he never reacted to any of the dogs. There were 3 gsd's and one belgian and all 4 were males. The trainer is a positive reinforcement trainer, he is in the camp of positive praise vs treats, however, he said that treats may be a way to start, and then wean off the treats and focus more on the positive shoulder pat good boy. He also mentioned the muzzle being a safe approach to get a leash reactive dog to approach other dogs. Lastly he emphasized, the sit, stay and 100% focus of the dog on its owner.

I hope that all helps, at least to understand that behavior on dogs that are still intact, may not be trained out of them, you may need a trainer to help you if you decide not to get him fixed. And an approach at training him to be not leash reactive.

Jenn and Al gave some great suggestions and understanding on the why's.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:42 pm

I am going to throw this out there in reference to wearing a leash but letting it drag. It could help on general leash manners, I think it is a good idea to try as his reaction will say a lot about what could be going on, I do have some suggestions. Try it with only a couple dogs around. If you do it in a huge pack it won't matter because he isn't going to be able to focus on one dog anyway which is his issue. If you only do it with one dog and that dog is like my second and just wants bug the dog that you are trying to work with the whole time you are on leash you will likely see the outburst you are looking for. I was doing gate work with Kenzi last night on leash and all Keno wanted to do was goad her into playing the whole time and pester her while he was off leash and she got fed up and tore him a new one. Note: Kenzi is a whole other world of leash reactive. Simon will most likely not have anywhere near the response that she does. Just throwing some possibilities out there.

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vbear
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:40 pm

If you are still looking for advice, I may be able to give you some ideas. Let me know!
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Playing with the Big Dogs
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PostSubject: Re: Sometimes being an asshole to other dogs.   Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:57 pm

Hey feel free.
He is good most of the time. This week at training class we worked next to dogs he had an issue with before with no problem.
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