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 Wolf Hybrid?

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Westcoaster87
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PostSubject: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:47 pm

So our beautiful Qinu is now about 15 weeks old and we are seriously starting to suspect that she could have some wolf in her. We're basing this on behaviour/coat/physical build. Does anyone have experience with hybrids to suggest the possible likelihood of this?

So you know, our puppy came from the Northwest Territories and while her mom is known they do not know who her father was. They know it was not a deliberate breeding and the puppies/mom were surrendered to be destroyed but authorities brought them to a rescue instead.

Reading this information here is what solidified out thoughts on this but more info is always fun :-)

http://yamnuskawolfdogsanctuary.com/resources/wolf-to-woof/physical-differences-between-wolves-and-dogs/


I'll try and get some good pictures of her that show why we suspect this.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:59 pm

Sophie, Miya was sold to me as a wolfdog. supposedly her mom was 75% wolf/25% husky and her dad 75% husky/25% wolf. I have done extensive research. I also lived with a mid content gsd/wolfdog growing up. I have not read the article, but I did want you to know that I have a lot of experience, and knowledge. For the record, if my Miya has wolf it is low content many generations ago, I would say she is a gsd/husky mix. As far as Quinu, I have not seen any traits of a wolfdog in her, physically. Again with Miya, I thought some of her puppy behavior was wolf like, but looking back, and how I ended up training her, I trained as if gsd/husky. I'll get back to you once I read your article you posted.
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:28 pm

I agree with Renee. A lot of times when GSD gets mixed with husky they can look more wolf like, I think because of the size the GSD can add.
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Westcoaster87
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:33 pm

That's awesome :-) I'm glad I'll be able to pick someone's brain rather than scour through articles wondering, lol.

When she was younger it never really crossed our minds but it's the physical traits she's developing along with her behaviour that's leading us to think this. Just to mention, she is our first husky mix so this could be breed inexperience as well.

One thing that we get asked about often (and right since we got her) is her coat. She has extremely long, course, banded guard hairs. Any person with an opinion on it has commented that their huskies/GSDs/Shepherds (what have you) had fluffy coats at her age and they've never seen such course, long guard hairs. She has a v-shaped cape and her hackles are massive! I'm not sure what they look like on a wolf but no one (including me) has seen such pronounced hackles.

Other things include:
Webbed, splayed toes
Straight tail when relaxed/walking
Extreme colour changes (she was born with no markings)
Doesn't bark- her vocalizations are like snapping growls, a high pitched yipping, and low howling
Extreme fixation and independence but equally pack focused
Narrow chested with longer legs and out-turned toes (could be an age thing?)


But then at the same time she has those MASSIVE ears that are growing with her, lol. And then obviously all her husky loveliness :-)


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MGoBlue
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:39 pm

Westcoaster87 wrote:
That's awesome :-) I'm glad I'll be able to pick someone's brain rather than scour through articles wondering, lol.

When she was younger it never really crossed our minds but it's the physical traits she's developing along with her behaviour that's leading us to think this. Just to mention, she is our first husky mix so this could be breed inexperience as well.

One thing that we get asked about often (and right since we got her) is her coat. She has extremely long, course, banded guard hairs. Any person with an opinion on it has commented that their huskies/GSDs/Shepherds (what have you) had fluffy coats at her age and they've never seen such course, long guard hairs. She has a v-shaped cape and her hackles are massive! I'm not sure what they look like on a wolf but no one (including me) has seen such pronounced hackles.

Other things include:
Webbed, splayed toes No clue about this one
Straight tail when relaxed/walking This is actually how huskies are supposed to carry their tail. They are not supposed to stay curled
Extreme colour changes (she was born with no markings) Very common for huskies markings to vary dramatically over their lifetime
Doesn't bark- her vocalizations are like snapping growls, a high pitched yipping, and low howling Sounds like a husky
Extreme fixation and independence but equally pack focused Also a husky trait
Narrow chested with longer legs and out-turned toes (could be an age thing?) Could just be from poorly bred lineage. Lots of leggy full blood huskies out there


But then at the same time she has those MASSIVE ears that are growing with her, lol. And then obviously all her husky loveliness :-)




See my responses in bold above

Edited to add: Both my purebred huskies' hackles look huge when raised, and they raise for any exciting stimulation, not just aggressiveness.


Last edited by MGoBlue on Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:43 pm

Sophie, read the article, and is pretty much spot on from all that I have read. My girl follows many of the traits described, however, many northern breeds and gsds will have similar physical characteristics, unfortunately I don't think these wolfdog experts understand other breeds, like huskies, malamutes and gsds, and the traits of those three can very much be mistaken for wolf.

Just to give perspective......Gsd's were reintroduced and bred back to wolves, so all pure gsd's will have wolf dna. Huskies and Mals are one of the oldest dog breeds, since all dogs are direct descendents of wolves, all dogs will have wolf dna. Yes even beagles and chis. There is huge debate with this, but it is a fact that gsd's were bred back to wolves, and huskies/mals are one of the very first breed of domesticated dogs, they had to start from something that is wild, assuming that, all dogs come from wolves.

Miya has webbed feet, Miya eats with her paws, she has no rear dew claw, she walks single tracked.....there are more traits, but starting with these......Labs have webbed feet, I imagine many huskies here on the forum use their paws to eat, many dogs are born with out dew claws, show huskies and the AKC definition for proper conformation of huskies is they walk single tracked.

I can go to another aspect and that is size, Miya was 55 pounds at 6 months of age, extreme size for a husky at that age, however, a husky/gsd would be that large, as well as a poorly bred husky can be that large. Ears, haha, that is a good one, Miya's ears are gsd ears, even poorly bred huskies will have larger ears than a standard husky, Qinu(sorry I spelt that wrong before) has very large ears. Toe nails, Miya's nail are quite close to the arctics nails, very thick, yet not that long. Gsd's nails are very similar to a wolfs, long and black.

personalities....most people assume if they have a potential guard dog it is a wolf trait, it is not....most wolfdogs are fearful of humans, and would rather hide than attack, protect or socialize.....

Would love to see updated photos and hear why you think she may be part wolf. However I am going to be pretty adamant on saying to you, even if there is a possibility she is part, please do her a favor and never tell anyone, stick to husky mix or go with the husky/gsd, husky/gsd mixes are quite common, and is one reason so many people get away with saying their dog is a wolf mix, when they are not. Simply saying, if your dog is assumed part wolf, it may be against locality laws, and if she ever bites someone or another dog, or attacks another animal, she may automatically be put down, where as a doggy dog will be checked over to make sure it is not a vicious dog.

As far as vcape Miya has a strong one, Miya's hackles can go down her entire back, her guard hairs are banded with multi colors, and is very coarse, however, husky trait is coarse guard hairs. Every trait you listed Miya has....however, they can also be gsd/husky traits. Huskies are notorious for not barking. Miya's chest is narrow, however as she ages she is filling out, some dogs do not reach maturity until 3 years of age. Miya's coat as all husky coats change frequently.

Feel free to ask questions, I have found the subject interesting and sadly the majority of all huskies here in west Texas are sold as Miya was.....it does a disservice to the dog.
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Westcoaster87
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:58 pm


Sarah, Qinu is a northern rescue. She was surrendered to authorities along with her mother to be destroyed after an unplanned breeding with an unknown father. They were picked up by a rescue and brought to BC.

Renee, thank you for all the information! I've found in the little reading I have done so far that many parallels are drawn between huskies and wolfdogs with people preferring to believe their dog is a wolfdog. We won't ever really know but having only owned pit bulls and retrievers before Qinu, her breed traits are a stark contrast.

Qinu is not shy by any means but is aloof. She won't approach people but allows them to approach her. She spends most of her time behind furniture and hidden away when we have visitors but not due to shyness I don't think.

For knowledge sake, there is no legislation prohibiting hybrid ownership in BC and I have encountered hybrids at our local rescue many times. Owners (dog owners included) tend to be held to a high degree of accountability when it comes to their dog's behaviours and our local by-laws are extremely well enforced.

I'll try to get some pictures of her today. She's currently refusing to wake up, hahahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:01 pm

Oh! Something to also mention is that there was some suggestion that her mom is seppala cross which look to me to be more lanky than the siberians more commonly seen.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:37 pm

Sophie, I would agree with the Seppala cross, in fact Miya fits breed standard for Seppala's. However, AKC does not recognize as separate breed. Again, though, the Seppala's were bred husky to another breed, my line of thinking would be a fast running breed, or because of the era again, gsd. The breeding program of the Seppala's I believe died out in the early 90's, I would assume though, that there is some Seppala's around, especially in Canada. Here in the states I believe New Hampshire, or that area and Utah were the big areas of such.

I agree that understanding what different breeds are in your dog, make training far easier. I also understand you not being aware of the breed, so asking questions are important. Where I live it is impossible for me to educate people, even after I explain that I lived with a wolfdog, my neighbor believes their husky is 25-50% wolf, yet is AKC registered, which is not possible. He also is within breed standard of a husky, their thought is he bit one guy once(thinking wolves are protective), picks fights with their male lab(typical behavior of 2 unaltered males), and he has black gums(typical husky trait of a black and white), he is small within breed standard of a husky 54 pounds, with ice blue eyes(people still believe blue eyes are wolf traits). He is in Miya's scrapbook, his name is Zeke, and you can definitely tell he is all husky. I can not convince them otherwise. Also, they were going to mate him with Miya's sister(I knew she is, they do not), she is black and white, blue eyes and swears to people she is 75% wolf, ugh. Wolf dogs are no longer viewed on percentages they are viewed on content. No low mid content or higher wolf dog will have 2 litters a year and will never have a litter in the spring, summer, or fall. Because of surgical problems with Miya's spay, she still goes into heat, twice a year, her mom also went into heat twice a year, and Miya was born in the beginning of November, impossible for a wolf dog, Zeke was born at the same time of year as Miya.

If you would like more info, I am more than happy to share with the forum, educating people is the main reason I did as much research as I did, not only to protect Miya, but also to remove the glamor that so many people view having a wolfdog can be.
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:21 pm

I have heard Seppala's are rare in the States. The Seppala originated in the Yukon though and I've been told they are still in the Yukon, Northwest Territories (where Qinu is from), Nunavut, and Manitoba (where a breeder still exists). I spoke to the breeder briefly and he explained that the breed preserves the original working Siberian line. He has an article about it on his website. Excellent resource for the breed: http://www.seppalakennels.com/index.htm

I'm not sure generally how working huskies are bred in the States but here they get crossed with dogs like greyhounds, pitbulls, and shepherds. The Seppala's and other working huskies are more commonly 45-50lbs though obviously that not a hard set rule. Qinu's mom is about 70lbs though she could afford to lose a few, lol. I posted a picture of her alongside one of the Seppala breeders dogs as a comparison on the other thread. I could post them here is you are curious :-)

Here is the best I could do with pictures which shows you nothing at all, lol. I wish the picture caught her eye colour. She has hazel/olive eyes which are just so beautiful. And she's very lanky with outturned front feet and when she's weight-bearing her toes spread out. I had to laugh when you described Miya's paws. Qinu's are the same way- she uses her nails like fingers to eat and can even take hold of your arm. Weirdest thing.



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Westcoaster87
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:27 pm

Obviously I'm being a bit selective here but check out this video (adorable!!). Qinu looks and moves like this little guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XypJqDYqwnw

Though as I'm looking through all these images there are just so many parallels that can drawn between GSD crosses, huskies, and wolves. As you explain above, the genetic closeness leads to people too easily drawing conclusions about hybridization and percentages, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Wolf Hybrid?    Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:41 pm

She's 15 weeks old, she's supposed to be lean lanky and all legs.  That's not likely who she's going to be when she hits adult maturity.  It does not mean she's wolf or even Seppala. Generally you evaluate at 8-10 weeks and don't look at them again (in a critical sense) until they have grown out of the puppy uglies. Puppies do awful things when they grow, they don't grow evenly. One day you'll swear they are all ears, the next they're all legs, and none of it works together the way it will eventually.
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