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 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.

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Kiko's Mom
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 8:58 pm

Hi, I have not posted here for a long time, because I really wanted to be able to post some good news about our puppy Kiko. He is now over 7 months old, and he is a nightmare! I do have photos all the way up to this point, but I just haven't posted them. Some day I will post them, as he is a beautiful pup -- but right now I am seeking advice and I am pretty much exhausted physically and mentally from this dog, as is my boyfriend.

Kiko has a heart murmur, for one ...fine, because that is the least of our problems. We are working with the vet on that, and the good news is the X-rays don't show an enlarged heart, so finally he is going to be scheduled for an ultrasound by a canine cardiologist who comes to town once a month.

But the main thing is his behavior. He is literally crazy. I mean he is extremely hyper-active, more than any dog I have ever known. I have trained many puppies ...well, 8 puppies, in my life, and this one is not normal. All of my other puppies learned to sit/stay/lie down/come by the time they were 10 to 12 weeks old, and do those things consistently. Even Tundra, my last Siberian Husky (who was 18 months old when I rescued him and had severe separation anxiety), learned to behave and already knew basic commands and followed them. He was very gentle and sweet.

Kiko terrorizes our home. Seriously. My boyfriend is retired and I don't work outside the home, so we are always here, at least one of us and usually both of us. This dog terrorizes us from before sunrise until after sunset, that is the only way to put it.

#1 - House Breaking: Kiko goes outside during the day. He asks to go outside. But every night he poos and pees in the house. He poos two or three times during the night. We don't understand this. He is 7 months old. I have never even heard of any dog who goes this many times, especially during the night. And yep, in the house. When he knows to go outside during the day. He gets his dinner at 5pm and we take him outside at around 10pm or 10:30pm for his last poo/pee. But every single night I am awakened by the horrible smell and I have to get up and clean like crazy. Most often twice per night. It is a very strange smell. Kiko's poo has always smelled very much like burnt rubber. It has a very odd smell.

#2 - Wakes us up before dawn (related to issue #1 above) Even though he goes outside at 10:00pm or 10:30pm to poo/pee, and THEN he still poos and pees in the house two or three times during the night ...he STILL wakes us up crying to go out at anywhere between 4:00am up to as late as 5:30am (which is like "yay" we get to sleep in!).
This is a horrible situation, because if we don't get up and take him out, he will go in the house yet again. So either way, I have to get up and clean clean clean. Or take him outside in the dark (and then we are up for the day). I basically get maybe 4 or 5 hours of constantly interrupted sleep every night for almost seven months now since we have had this dog. My boyfriend too. We are both so exhausted, and I cried today.

#3 - He doesn't understand the word "NO". He doesn't understand ANY type of discipline or training efforts. He fights us. He fights back, I mean. I have successfully trained/disciplined other dogs, but Kiko is just impossible. Okay, I know he is a siberian husky, but omg you have no idea what this guy is like. See next point (#4) below.

#4 - He bites us and makes us bleed. We have listened to our vet and tried her suggestions. He constantly jumps on us and scratches us and bites us ...she said to turn our backs and ignore him when he is like that. It doesn't help, he just goes crazy. We are both so beaten up and scratched from him. He does not let up, no matter what we do. He seems to think it is all a game. I have never ever known or seen any dog like this Sad

#5 - He eats/chews/destroys everything!!! We can take him out on a 30 minute walk, or let him run and run and run at the dog park, but even after that he is hyper and crazy. He gets what we think is the best of food/nutrition (?) (TOTW High Prairie Puppy Food) along with soooo many toys and good safe healthy treats ...but he still goes absolutely crazy the minute we aren't looking and even if we ARE looking. He eats the carpet, the couch, the bedspread, the floor, the linoleum, the shelves, etc ...and I mean he actually ingests them, not just chewing. He digs and digs on the sofa and eats anything that rips, and does the same on the carpeting. If we stop him he bites us and then keeps going. Our entire house is basically ruined and chewed up in the last seven months. And we are so worried he will get a blockage or a rupture from eating all this inedible stuff that he eats. Sad

I know I have probably left much out. Like how we love him, and how he is so cute when he finally is sleeping.
I must reiterate that I have raised and trained many other pups. But we are just at our wits end with this one. I know I will hear it from the behaviorists and trainers here on this site, and it's okay, I can take it. Let me have it, any ideas or suggestions or criticism. Anything that will help, please. We can't give him up. Nobody would keep this dog. If we did give him up he would be put down. I want to be able to live with this dog. Please help!

Any suggestions or even commiserations welcome. Smile

Like ...do any of you have any similar stories? Have any of you had similar troubles but it turned out okay?

Sorry I am just so tired. Please help!

Thank you.
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amymeme
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amymeme

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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 10:57 pm

Is he crated at night?

Is he tethered to you when up during the day?  

Is he crated when he can't be tethered to you
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MiyasMomma
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyThu Oct 22, 2015 1:00 am

Annie, I can sympathize!! Before i give you any advice, other than he should grow out of this Miya did. Let me ask is he on any medications that may affect his behavior? Since I know he has had problems with his heart perhaps he is on meds that affect him? Also what age was he taken away from mom and siblings? If he was taken away pre 8 weeks, this may be part of the issue.

The advice I can offer may be too rough for you in terms of prepared playtime and brain games. Not all issues with huskies stem from lack of exercise, sometimes it's lack of mental stimulation. At 7 months of age he may indeed have oops accidents in house, but on a whole he should be completely potty trained by now. Also, many puppies of other breeds may be quite trainable at a young age, huskies are stubborn, he knows what you are asking, he just doesn't want to do it. It can be frustrating, I really, really understand. Currently Miya out of 9 puppies is the only dog who lives in a house. All of her siblings are tied to a tree, because the owners couldn't deal with the inappropriate behavior they display, and in fact call them too wild to be in a house.

There are several things you will have to change. You and boyfriend probably display your anxiety and frustration, and Kiko probably feeds off of this. Being relaxed, albeit difficult to do, is a must. negative feelings will result in negative reactions. Next you need to stimulate his mind. This is the difficult thing. You need to be a dog, haha, yes it sounds funny but it is true. Amy, poster above me, has mentioned this several times in her posts, and I have as well. Neither of us are 20 somethings with tough skin, but it is something that I know fulfills our dogs, and that is a very different type of bond than you will find with say a lab. Bonding is a tough one with a husky, takes about a year before a husky will form any type of bond, and the best way and a most challenging way for you to build this bond is to do what he wants to do. I will play tugs and chase Miya, then she may chase me. She may knock me down, I may end up knocking her down. I might get a bruise here and there, but in reality you have now become a husky, and this will make him happy and in turn be a better dog inside.

Yes you do need to set boundaries, but, not fulfilling his doggy desires results in a bored husky, who will do as he pleases. How does he do on leash when you walk him? If he is good on leash, he is trainable. If he is not he is still trainable, just not happy. Mental stimulation is just as tiring as physical. It's the mental games that wear them down, and in turn you get a more responsive dog, and he in turns becomes happier. The easiest mental game, and will require you to dress in a manner where you will get dirty, and where gloves. Get a rather long tug toy. Yes you will have to dig in and hold on, because they are strong. After a few minutes of tugs, throw in a command while you are holding tugs, such as sit. His reward will be you starting the game again. If he fetches, then after a few minutes of tugs, hold tugs tell him to sit and stay, toss tugs, his reward is to get it, resume tugs, etc. Another game that we play, is have him hold the tugs and push him around, if he drops the tugs give a command before starting the game again. When you are done tell him enough, stop the game on your terms.

Playing these type of games, gets his prey drive going, and I know you may think I am crazy, but believe me, this is what he wants, it just has to be done on your terms. The throwing in commands makes him use his mind, this will tire him, but also will instill and drive home what you have trained him. Making training time fun for him.

I can elaborate if you need me to. Miya had one of the worse cases of separation anxiety I have ever heard of or read about. Miya crossed the highway more times than I like to admit pre 1 year of age chasing an animal of some sort. Miya did not respond to yelping, time outs or any of the other words of wisdom in dealing with a mouthy dog. I cried more times than I care to admit. We nearly gave up on this dog. But all of her issues, boiled down to her being sent home to us at 5.5 weeks of age, she never learned bite inhibition from her siblings. They pottied outside, so it didn't matter where they pottied, in essence they pottied in their home, so going in my home was the connection for her. I was consistent in taking her out, and letting her know it was where I wanted her to go, tiring her out battled that problem. I want to say that at about a year old everything clicked for Miya. My neighbors think she is the sweetest, gentlest, obedient, loving dog they have ever met. They know the work I put into her to be this way. It is not an easy job, I fully understand everything you are saying, because I have been there. I said to my husband, we have to do something, because no one else would want this dog. Today everyone wants this dog, lol. I am hoping a year from now, you will laugh and say, I can not believe this dog was soooo bad, now he is just a goofball, lover. Good luck
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Kiko's Mom
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyMon Oct 26, 2015 7:33 pm

@amymeme wrote:
Is he crated at night?

Is he tethered to you when up during the day?  

Is he crated when he can't be tethered to you

No, he is not crated or tethered. The crate thing has been a source of contention from the beginning between myself and my boyfriend Jerry. I wanted a crate before we even adopted Kiko ...Jerry thinks it is cruel and "doesn't want to raise a dog in a cage" (exact quote). We did finally get a crate, upon my insistence, a used one, but Jerry put it outside after one day and refused to let me bring it back into the house. Jerry thinks it is cruel even though I have never had a problem with a crate-trained dog.

However, I do use a baby gate, between rooms, to keep Kiko contained, so I do think that helps. I move the gate to wherever I need -- at night Kiko is contained in our bedroom and the hallway. During the day, he is contained in whichever room I am in, basically.

Tethered? Well, only when he is outside. But even inside, I do use a baby gate so that he is contained within the room I am in. Still, he eats anything in reach, mostly carpet and etc, and never stops jumping on me, biting me and tearing/eating my clothing unless he is asleep. Tethering may not be the way to go with this guy. But I will consider it and thank you! Smile

Ty for your questions and I will definitely reconsider the tethering and crate options ...have to make it okay with Richard but anything is better than what we are dealing with now! Smile

sincerely
Annie (Kiko's mom)

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aljones
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyMon Oct 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Annie, you have my sympathy regarding your boyfriend.  I don't crate my dogs, never have - but I've also never had the need to even think about it.  However given your circumstances, *I* would definitely be crating the little monster.

I'm going to jump topics - we have two in your message - to tethering.  I *do* use a house leash with one of my dogs, simply because she and i haven't figured out how to have her let me know, consistently, that she wants out.  When Sasha and I go out, she's normally on a 30ft leash (good, you're in the US I can use English measurements) when I can't be right with her in the house, she's on a 5 foot leash that's tied 1) to me  2) to my chair 3) to the door a few feet away from me ...  What that does is force her to tell me when she wants out.  Other uses for a tether / house leash are to keep a dog from jumping on people and things that they shouldn't; it keeps them from rushing the door when it's time to go out (and obviously keeps them from running out).  You get the idea of how I'm using it and how it can be used, right?

ETA one comment: You said that tethering might not be the solution for this guy, I beg to differ. if you have the tether run under your chair leg, for example, *you* control how much freedom Kiko has. If she's good you let it out a little, if she starts misbehaving then you shorten it, and yes, shorten it to the point that she can't go anywhere or do anything except wait for you to "cut her some slack".

Now back to the topic of a crate - simply stated, there is no place that's safer for a dog who can't be completely trusted and is not under constant supervision (er, house leash).   Dogs like to chew, it's a part of their nature, things attached to electrical cords, and the cords themselves since they have our odor on them, are highly desirable objects to chew on.  Dogs and electric cords don't mix for a multitude of reasons:

  1. Electrical shock / electrocution
  2. Strangulation
  3. Ingestion - wires are not good if they're inside a dog!

Dogs like to chew on 'most anything that has our odor on it or anything that just smells like it might taste good.  We set on a couch and the dog may decide to, literally, eat the couch - not good - an expensive obstruction is in the offing if you're lucky.

I can, quite literally, set my plate down on a coffee table, say "mine", walk off and it'll be there when I come back.  If you can't then your dog needs to be crated when there's food around.  Yes, it may also stop begging (to a degree) since you're teaching the dog that dinner time is your time.

The best way, I think, to get Richard on board is with the question "Are we just going to wait till Kiko chews an electrical cord?" Of course, phrase that so that it's not as aggressive as I make it sound, but you know Richard and how to phrase it right, right?

... er, you mention "boyfriend, Jerry" and then "make it okay with Richard" is this the same person under two names or am I just confused??
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Kiko's Mom
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyMon Oct 26, 2015 8:30 pm

Hi Al, ty for your response!

and to quote you, you said:
... er, you mention "boyfriend, Jerry" and then "make it okay with Richard" is this the same person under two names or am I just confused??

Haha, yes, I am sorry to confuse ...my bf's name is Jerry Richard H. (I call him Richard -- others call him Jerry) so I am sorry for the confusion. I tried to just call him Jerry in this post but I goofed and called him Richard somewhere because that is what I call him. lol oops. Embarassed

TY for promoting the crate idea, I need to show this to Jerry (Richard) because I do totally agree with you and it is what I have told him all along.

His objection is that he thinks a crate is cruel, like a cage or a prison.  But I keep telling him it is the best way to keep Kiko safe, and to train him.

Also, with the way Kiko grabs/eats/chews everything within his reach, I have for a long time suggested a Basket Muzzle -- not as punishment but to keep him from ingesting everything within reach!

Well, Jerry (Richard) doesn't like the idea of any muzzle.  He thinks muzzles of any type are cruel.
But I have almost sold him on the basket muzzle, because the dog can pant and drink while wearing it.  The important thing is that we of course never leave Kiko alone unsupervised while he is wearing the basket muzzle, but we never leave him unsupervised anyway, so no prob.

The benefit will be that he can't just grab a piece of couch stuffing and run with it ...or a rock ...or a piece of wood, etc etc.

Thank you so much for your response, and I am going to read it again, as soon as I get back from Kiko's walk that I must take now with him Smile
hugs,
sincerely, Annie (and Jerry Richard H)
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyMon Oct 26, 2015 10:04 pm

I'm not so keen on the muzzle idea - only because I'm not sure how that would teach what is ok and not ok to chew.

As for house tethering (and I mean, tethered to you on short leash), I still occasionally tether Ami to me - usually it while we want to watch a movie and Ami wants us to go for a walk.  If he doesn't get the message to lie down and be quiet, snap, on goes the leash and I sit on the couch with the leash around my hand.  Shortly after that, he will settle down.

Second instance was like last night -  when we travel and arrive in a hotel, Ami can be quite vocal and paws at us to go explore.  Even when he's already been significantly walked, and its lights out.  I then sleep with the leash around my hand.

Having Kiko on a house tether, to one of you at all times, probably only for a few days, will allow you to instantly correct his behavior - particularly if you anticipate him and stop him just as he starts...I'll bet you'll have much better control in only  a few days.
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jalepeno
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyMon Oct 26, 2015 10:37 pm

Lots of us have been there.
Read this thread:
http://www.itsahuskything.com/t11043-what-s-the-worst-your-husky-has-done?

You have entered the terror months and it will get better.
Some good advice has been given so far especially the indoor leashing and the crate.
It will get better!
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aljones
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyTue Oct 27, 2015 2:05 am

Annie, one other thing you might run past Richard is that dogs are den and pack animals. Being den animals, they want to have someplace safe where they can 'crash'. If you introduce the crate properly (and there's plenty of discussion on the forum on how to introduce your dog and the crate) then the crate is his den (Kiko is a 'he' - remember that Al).
The first rule of crating is that a crate is NEVER used for punishment! I'll let you explore the topic here and you can find the rest of the 'rules' on your own.
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7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help.   7 month-old Kiko is a terror! Please help. EmptyThu Oct 29, 2015 12:50 pm

Crating is HUUUUGELY important, as everyone so far has emphasized. I will admit that before we got our dog, I was a little reticent to crate because I just thought it was a long time for him to have to be in there. But, having done it now, I would absolutely 100% advocate crate training for a dog like yours. In addition to keeping your dog safe, it teaches so many valuable things: Impulse control, how to "be bored", what to chew and not chew (if you put appropriate toys in there with him).
It is super useful for housetraining, as they won't want to soil their den area, so if the dog has been in the crate for a while you can take him right out to his "spot" outside where you want him to go.

I think the crate is a crucial step in solving your problem because this kind of sounds like a case of "too much freedom too soon" for your puppy. Dogs aren't born knowing the rules, and they don't generalize well, so the slower you can introduce them to different parts of the environment the easier it is to teach what to do and not to do. That also plays into you saying the dog doesn't know what "No" means. No isn't really a command, because it doesn't direct the dog to what you DO want. So every time our dog would bite at us or chew on something he wasn't supposed to, we put a chew toy in his mouth instead to direct him away from it. It takes time, but they learn that when they have the impulse to do something like that, they can redirect it onto something more acceptable.

Long post, but one more thing. The most useful thing you can do with "bad behavior" is figure out how to use it as a reward. Clearly your dog loves jumping on you, so if you can manage to get the dog to view that as a game that it gets to play under certain circumstances, you'll be in great shape. For example, my dog loves to run away from me and be chased. I'm not just going to chase after him for free because then I'll never be able to catch him when I really need to. So this has evolved into a game where I'll start chasing him a little and he runs away, and after a minute or two I stop, and call him to me, make him do a few commands (sit or down) and then as soon as he does them the game starts again (of course he has to know the commands first). This is SO much more reinforcing than food rewards, and practical because you can do it anywhere. Now it doesn't work EVERY time because sometimes my dog just wants to run and doesn't care what I'm doing. BUT, it works surprisingly often. Any bad behavior can be turned into a reward which will make his obedience that much stronger because of how valuable that reward is. This can also help put the bad behavior on cue so the dog knows there is a time and place for it.

Hope that helps some!
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