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 Zhukov's worms and potty issues

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Mark Grubbs
Teenager
Teenager
Mark Grubbs

Male Join date : 2016-01-10
Location : Long Island, NY

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PostSubject: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptySun Feb 28, 2016 9:03 pm

So, after browsing through the forums, I figured that I would just post this to see what you guys and gals think.

We got Zhukov a week before Christmas, at 3 months old. I noticed that his stool was loose, and figured that it was a stress/change of food issue. Once he hit 4 months, we had already tried 2 different foods (Blue and Science Diet) with no improvement. So at his first vet visit they checked his stool and found worms. He got a 5 day supply of Panacur in a powder form that we put in his food. After a week, I took him back because his stool was still loose. He still had the worms, so he got Metronidazole in a pill form that he took twice a day for 7 days. Still had worms. Took him back. 9 day supply of Panacur powder. We are 6 days in and he still has the loose stool. On top of that, he poops about 4-6 times a day!

Now, as a side note, when we got him, we immediately started house training him. Unlike my Schnauzer, Zhukov is VERY non-verbal (unless you put him in a crate, where he will howl and yip and cry and moan like he is getting his legs pulled off by a Wookie) so we hung a bell on the door and started teaching him to ring the bell. Impressively, he picked up the bell quickly and for about 3 weeks all was well. The occasional accident, however, for the past 2 weeks, he has been peeing excessively in the house and occasionally pooping. It is so weird, because sometimes he will ring the bell, and sometimes he won't. Just 30 minutes ago, he was sitting in my room with me, got up and walked out. I got up to see where he was going and found a pool of pee in the hall. Just then my wife yelled out that he was peeing by the door. I ran up and he rang the bell so I let him out where he peed again.

The poop I could understand. Worms, medication, maybe an upset tummy.... Heck... Poor guy probably can't control it.. But, the pee worries me. He is drinking a lot, but with his running and then diarrhea, I figure he needs it...

HELP!
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jspec0482
Puppy
Puppy
jspec0482

Female Join date : 2016-02-13
Location : Georgia

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptySun Feb 28, 2016 9:56 pm

Sounds like he is reinfecting himself, you need to get a scooper and clean the yard to keep that from happening.

In terms of the potty accident, start over, closely supervise him at all times, if he leaves a room, follow him or take him out. I've never used the bell method so I'm not much help there!

Also, about the worms, if you have other animals make sure they have been treated as well!

Science diet is kind of overpriced for the quality of food you are getting, imo. Blue is much better but I know it's expensive. I personally feed Pure Balance.
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amymeme
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Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 12:02 am

You might try keeping him leashed to you in the house, and crating him when he can't be leashed.
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MiyasMomma
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MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 1:14 am

Mark, All I can say is YIKES!! Poor baby and and poor you and your wife....I have a strange feeling little guy has a UTI. This will make them go a lot. Firstly the Metro the vet prescribed is more for parasites than it is for worms. secondly the panacur is only for specific worms, also he should be on a heart worm preventive, panacur and the heart worm is over kill since they take care of the same worms. With that all said, his belly is probably in over drive. He needs a wormer that has praziquantel in it, specifically ask for it, the vet has it. Panacur is known to not always take care of worms. The praziquantel in conjuction with the heart worm med should get rid of all worms. Do the yard clean up like was suggested, continue with the bells and as was also suggested tether him to you when not crated.

Now on to his poor tummy.....As was suggested science diet is over priced junk food, and Blue has too many issues to trust. The Pure Balance as was suggested is an alright food especially on a budget, and others like Acana, Fromm, are excellent foods if you don't have a budget, if on a mid budget then TOTW, Diamond, 4Health (Tractor Supply), Nature's Domain (Costco) are also quality foods. I recommend for huskies grain free, so there are many choices I provided. Pick one and stick with it for at least 8 weeks, it takes that long for pups to adjust.

Next feed about a tablespoon to 2 a day of pure can pumpkin,  as well as greek yogurt or kefir if available. Pedialyte added to his water to help him not dehydrate. I would also feed 1/2 cup 3 or 4 times a day for 4 or 5 days of boiled chicken and double cook white rice (not the minute type), boil just chicken breast with out bones, skin, or fat, use the liquid so he continues to be hydrated. Add the pumpkin and yogurt in the mix.

A puppy who has had this issue this long and then the over peeing can lead to severe dehydration. So although he is drinking plenty and peeing to much, you need to continue giving liquids. I strongly urge you to check for UTI and get him on the praziquantel for the worms. If he has a UTI then the antibiotics will continue with the diarrhea issue. After a week on the chicken mix I gave above continue with that but slowly work in the new food, it is perfectly fine to soak kibble, so continue adding the broth as well. I feel for you, both of my girls went through similar issues. If you need more help, or if I need to clarify something, don't hesitate to ask.
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whitehusky3
Teenager
Teenager
whitehusky3

Female Join date : 2016-02-10
Location : Reedsville, WI, USA

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 1:18 pm

Miyas, I didn’t know Panacur is known for not working on whipworms. Suka was diagnosed with whipworms right before I got him, and he had diarrhea for the whole month of February. I gave him the second round of Panacur last week, and he still has loose stools. My other dog, Jack, also has loose stools. I thought it was because of their food, so I switched it. That helped a little bit, but not completely and I had to give Suka kaopectate. I also ordered the FortiFlora because I’m at a loss about what to do. Now I’m wondering if he still has whipworms, and if he gave them to Jack.

I’m glad he is having a fecal done at the vet tomorrow, and I’m going to write down that praziquantel so I can ask for it if whipworms show up.
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Mark Grubbs
Teenager
Teenager
Mark Grubbs

Male Join date : 2016-01-10
Location : Long Island, NY

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 1:46 pm

Awesome advice! Thanks for setting my mind at ease. I did the yard clean up this morning, and didn't let him do his digging/eating dirt trick. I wrote down the meds and food choices and will get those as soon as possible. Wife stared at me, like I was a lunatic when I asked her to pick up boneless/skinless chicken breasts, canned pumpkin, greek yogurt, and white rice for the dog Laughing but she will get those this afternoon. I will have the vet check for the UTI. Keep y'all updated.
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aljones
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Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 2:10 pm

@Mark Grubbs wrote:
Awesome advice!  Thanks for setting my mind at ease.  I did the yard clean up this morning, and didn't let him do his digging/eating dirt trick.  I wrote down the meds and food choices and will get those as soon as possible.  Wife stared at me, like I was a lunatic when I asked her to pick up boneless/skinless chicken breasts, canned pumpkin, greek yogurt, and white rice for the dog Laughing  but she will get those this afternoon.  I will have the vet check for the UTI.  Keep y'all updated.

I can imagine her self talk went something like: "Damn dog's gonna eat better that we are; wonder what he'd say if I suggested a steak for us for dinner??"

I feel for you with the worms. If he's reinfecting himself - which I agree is probable - you're going to have a more difficult time of getting rid of them completely. My understanding is that the worms can live in the grass for a long time - but I'm not comfortable making any suggestions.
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amymeme
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Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 3:27 pm

Here is worm tx chart - note Ivermectin in heartworm preventive doses are generally not sufficient to kill existing intestinal worms and must be used with caution at doses high enough to kill intestinal worms. It may prevent some intestinal worms (I've seen conflicting reports on this.)

Fenbendazole (Panacur) will kill whip worms, not all tape worms.  Praziquantal WILL kill tapeworms.

EDIT: Ok, here's the link.

http://www.thedogplace.org/parasites/dog-wormers-dosage-chart_lanting-09.asp
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whitehusky3
Teenager
Teenager
whitehusky3

Female Join date : 2016-02-10
Location : Reedsville, WI, USA

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyMon Feb 29, 2016 11:52 pm

What about Sentinel? That seems easier to get rid of these than having to deworm him with Panacur every three weeks.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyTue Mar 01, 2016 12:47 am

Since I am in the midst of a nasty cold my brain just didn't want to work.....you want to use a broad spectrum de wormer, Drontal plus was what I wanted to mention. It has a higher success rate over Panacur. I normally would recommend going to a pet store and buying your own, however, praziquantel is very difficult to get over the counter, so going to your vet is a must. I have no idea where I read the info, but panacur has been prescribed for years, and similar to flea meds, it may or may not work for your dog. Imo, switching to another de wormer is the best route, if the panacur is not working. If you look at the ingredients for Panacur and Drontal they are different, if one isn't working, then ask for the other..............
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptyTue Mar 01, 2016 1:22 am

Jessie, didn't see your post, hmmm I thought your two were doing better. I would follow with what I suggested. Feed the chicken mash for 4-5 days while on the meds, and slowly work back in the new food. It is a trial and error type of thing, eventually everything will click. The forti flora, I think is fine to give, it is not always what they say it is or not as effective, at this point it wont hurt to give, I gave it right along with the yogurt, but to be honest with my 2, I seen no difference from the forti flora, giving both forti flora and yogurt or just giving plain yogurt, and I did try all 3 options. There are other issues you may not have looked into as well, ask about giardia and coccidia, this will give severe diarrhea as well and is contagious to other dogs. I have been debating on switching to sentinel, so that is a valid option, as well as Iverheart Max, which is generic heartgard plus with prazi, I had an extremely difficult time finding the Iverheart and went back to heartgard.

Amy good article, I did want to mention that the info on the MDR1 is outdated. I don't know who wrote the article, it is a breeder who did, just not sure what their name is, didn't see it. Anyways, I contacted U of W who is the experts on MDR1 and they said that the incidence is higher than 5 % in GSD's and it is specifically found in black and tans and sables, although I would have to find my email from them to give the specific lines affected.
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Mark Grubbs
Teenager
Teenager
Mark Grubbs

Male Join date : 2016-01-10
Location : Long Island, NY

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptySun Mar 06, 2016 11:04 am

PARASITE FREE! So, after cleaning the yard really well, finishing up his meds, and changing his food (again), I think we are on the right path. I have been very watchful and making sure that he isn't out there digging and eating the dirt. Also, changed his food to Merrick Limited Ingredient Salmon and Sweet Potato food. (Petco will let you exchange opened bags of food, if you didn't know) Not gonna post pics of it, but I was so happy to see normal looking poop.

Thank you all for the advice and kind words. Love this forum group.
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aljones
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Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptySun Mar 06, 2016 12:01 pm

What I know of hookworms, etc is that their eggs and larva can live in the soil long after 'being cleaned up'.  One of the benefits of living where I do is that the dirt is so dry that nothing much lives in it - have to water garden and plants every day or they don't live!

I've looked around for some site that has anything that will kill the larva -  almost nothing will do anything about eggs! - and while bleach will kill them, it also effectively kills any plants - and requires reapplication (er, almost anything requires reapplication, you kill the larva, wait a week to 10 days [for fleas, for example] for the eggs to hatch and do it again - repeat as needed). Wondercide claims to be able to control pest through the use of cedar oils in their products - but I personally have no experience with it (so this is not a recommendation, just a possibility.)

A 'Google' of "how to clean lawn of dog parasites" comes up with a plethora fo responses and most of them are impractical if you want both a yard and pets (or kids).
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whitehusky3
Teenager
Teenager
whitehusky3

Female Join date : 2016-02-10
Location : Reedsville, WI, USA

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PostSubject: Re: Zhukov's worms and potty issues   Zhukov's worms and potty issues EmptySun Mar 06, 2016 4:53 pm

Renee, my dogs are doing much better since I used the FortiFlora. The vet checked Suka’s stools and they came back negative for parasites or any other problems. It seems the food they were on was the problem, and as long as Suka doesn’t eat from Romeo’s bowl, his stools are fine. But if he steals from Romeo’s bowl when I’m not looking, I notice his stools are immediately loose again. So that confirmed for me the American Natural Premium was definitely the problem. I’m going to let Romeo and Gypsy finish off this food (I hate to waste things), but then I’m going to get them on something else in case Suka steals from them again. It’ll also be nice to have Jack, Romeo, and Gypsy all on the same food (and when Suka is over a year, he’ll be on the same thing too so I won’t have to buy puppy food anymore).
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