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 Still Picky...

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Rooen
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PostSubject: Still Picky...   Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:53 pm

Man I ask a lot of questions here don't I?

So Missy is off her anti-biotic but she's going through little hunger strikes now. Yesterday I put her food down and she refused to even go near it all day so I picked it up and put it away until dinner. Dinner rolled around and she still refused. We put a few toppings on every so often to try and get her to eat but even they seem to be losing their charms.

Miss is a good weight say two different vets. She's 6 years old, tiny at only 40lbs but filled out and a nice weight. As far as I can tell she hasn't been losing weight. She's also very lazy compared to most Husky's I've hear about or met. She sleeps most of the day, will play hard a few times with the puppy for maybe 5-10 min stretching of hard running and rolling around but she's a couch potato at heart, so my question would be does this sound alright for a older husky hitting that senior age who isn't overly active?

She will still eat table scraps, tonight she ate boiled turkey and rice twice and kept it down with no issue, ran around for a bit and is back asleep. Normally she's on performatrin ultra dog kibble that's grain free. I have a heck of a time finding any kibble or even wet food she will eat without some tasty toppings. Should I just let her wait it out and stop throwing her hungry strike? She will still take some treats which she's also picky with, and is still begging for table scraps so I know she's at least hungry.

Edit: We tried WuRuVa wet dog food and she seemed to like it (because it looks and even tastes like real human food) but it gave her the runs, any chance that might go away and we can stick to that food or best stay away from it altogether?
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:23 am

Well, okay, I had to go look up WeRuVa dog food because I wasn't sure what east coast you are on (east coast US looks like a good guess?)

My favourite Dog Food Advisor gives WeRuVa a pretty solid 5 stars (out of 5). I'd bet that it's either a lot richer than what she's used to -or- you just gave her a can in place of her food to see whether she liked it or not.  Being too rich is apt to cause diarrhea; switching from one food to another without doing it gradually is apt to, as well.

Let's clear the air a bit here.  First Husky's tend to stop eating anything from time to time.  It's seldom anything to get worried about as long as everything else stays the same.  It's time to get concerned when they stop eating and drinking or become extremely lethargic or lost too much weight, as examples.  If she's consistently around 40 pounds and looks healthy, I'd be less inclined to be worried.

The second bit - and for this I have to put on my curmudgeon hat - by continually trying to find a food that she'll eat you're setting yourself up for failure.  You're not training her, she's doing a good job of training you.  I think the consensus here is to find a good food that she'll eat and feed her that.  If she stops eating, stop feeding her! (( Well, not that bad, just put her food up for the next meal. )) She will eventually eat what you provide.  One of my favourite lines goes something like this "No healthy dog is going to starve to death setting beside a bowl of good dog food."  The two caveats you seem to have under control, she is healthy - if small - and you're looking for a good food that she'll eat.  What some here will do is to pick a brand that has different flavours (as WeRuVa does) and rotate them so the dog doesn't get bored of the same old meal (I have my own personal opinion on a dog getting bored with food, but that's another matter altogether.)


After a review of your previous message, you may freely choose to ignore everything I've said. How much of the lethargy had to do with the lymes or your (possible) sedentary lifestyle I can only guess. I have one here who is quite happy setting inside, waiting for me to do something outside and then she may or may not be interested - definition of couch potato. If I take her walking in the desert where she can be off lead (and is right outside my door) she's more apt to expend some energy but at my age, I tire a bit more easily than I used to.


Last edited by aljones on Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:34 am

@aljones wrote:
Well, okay, I had to go look up WeRuVa dog food because I wasn't sure what east coast you are on (east coast US looks like a good guess?)

My favourite Dog Food Advisor gives WeRuVa a pretty solid 5 stars (out of 5). I'd bet that it's either a lot richer than what she's used to -or- you just gave her a can in place of her food to see whether she liked it or not.  Being too rich is apt to cause diarrhea; switching from one food to another without doing it gradually is apt to, as well.

Let's clear the air a bit here.  First Husky's tend to stop eating anything from time to time.  It's seldom anything to get worried about as long as everything else stays the same.  It's time to get concerned when they stop eating and drinking or become extremely lethargic or lost too much weight, as examples.  If she's consistently around 40 pounds and looks healthy, I'd be less inclined to be worried.

The second bit - and for this I have to put on my curmudgeon hat - by continually trying to find a food that she'll eat you're setting yourself up for failure.  You're not training her, she's doing a good job of training you.  I think the consensus here is to find a good food that she'll eat and feed her that.  If she stops eating, stop feeding her! (( Well, not that bad, just put her food up for the next meal. )) She will eventually eat what you provide.  One of my favourite lines goes something like this "No healthy dog is going to starve to death setting beside a bowl of good dog food."  The two caveats you seem to have under control, she is healthy - if small - and you're looking for a good food that she'll eat.  What some here will do is to pick a brand that has different flavours (as WeRuVa does) and rotate them so the dog doesn't get bored of the same old meal (I have my own personal opinion on a dog getting bored with food, but that's another matter altogether.)

I tend to be a worry wart myself so her not eating for a day. How would you recommend trying to start or on the WuRuVa as her main food, since she does like it and it's a pretty high quality. With her eating maybe half a can a day would be more than enough and as you said I can mix around with flavors just to try and nip her being picky in the bud. I've never tried to switch from dry to mostly wet before and she hardly eats as it is.

Maybe a spoon or so a day until her stool is consistently good, then up it to two spoons and less kibble?
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:46 am

I hate to do this to you - but I plead the fifth!  I feed dry and have no idea how to switch from dry to wet.  The real reason I abstain is that there's also a 'discussion' about mixing wet and dry foods at the same meal which you'd need to do, I think, to transition from one to the other.

Personal Opinion I think what I'd do - if I were going to - would be to start off with one meal of kibble as normal and one meal with a small portion of canned.  Then gradually increase the canned and decrease the kibble until you can replace the kibble meal with another portion of canned.  Yes, doing it that way there's going to be a period where she's not getting as much as she's used to, but you have better control over 'what comes out' (her feces). If her feces become loose, then reduce the canned and increase the kibble until you're back to normal, solid.
As I said though, that's just the way I'd tackle it .... what's the expression YMMV???
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:45 am

@aljones wrote:
I hate to do this to you - but I plead the fifth!  I feed dry and have no idea how to switch from dry to wet.  The real reason I abstain is that there's also a 'discussion' about mixing wet and dry foods at the same meal which you'd need to do, I think, to transition from one to the other.

Personal Opinion I think what I'd do - if I were going to - would be to start off with one meal of kibble as normal and one meal with a small portion of canned.  Then gradually increase the canned and decrease the kibble until you can replace the kibble meal with another portion of canned.  Yes, doing it that way there's going to be a period where she's not getting as much as she's used to, but you have better control over 'what comes out' (her feces).  If her feces become loose, then reduce the canned and increase the kibble until you're back to normal, solid.
As I said though, that's just the way I'd tackle it .... what's the expression YMMV???

That seems like a good way to go about it. Honestly Miss has been eating like a brat her whole life. My dad gives into her every day, putting toppings on her food or just cooking her things to mix it hoping some kibble makes it in her mouth along with it. I'll have to re-train myself, her and him at this point and hope the wet food helps.

Thanks though!
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Sun May 08, 2016 11:33 am

Small Update:

We found a food Missy will gobble up right away.....but it's possibly the worst thing she could EVER have picked. Beniful Moist and Meaty. Not only is it just meh food (that I could live with by giving her good supplements and a bit of raw) but they use a preservative that causes cancer or is at least thought to. It has a single star if not lower on most sites. Because of course it does. I'm thinking of trying to use it as just a small mixer or topper for her food to lessen the blow of BAD and see if I can phase it out slowly.

I'm seeing such oddly good results from it though. She has more energy, she's more active and seems happier and she's already looking a little less down and thin and her stool is back to normal if a bit stinky. I wouldn't mind the semi low nutritional value if it wasn't for the possible cancer. At least I have SOMETHING but I may just try cooking her food myself as plain raw apparently isn't something she likes.

Back to the drawing board....
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Sun May 08, 2016 1:29 pm

I have mixed emotions on food like that - of course I have to admit I feed about the worst food around, but my dogs eat it (and I can afford it).

Most of the low grade dog foods add something to the food to make it appealing.  If it's not harmful, that's no big deal.  At least the pup is eating something ( is that like us eating Dominoe's Take Out every night? )

I think that if I were in your shoes, I'd go ahead and feed her something that is less than great - simply because she *is* eating.  Gradually, as you get grandpa et al trained to not feed her all the scraps you might try switching he to something that's better for her but if they're continuing to feed human food and enhance her food with toppings, you're fighting a losing battle.  These pups are not dumb and they understand 'guilt trips' ( if I don't eat *that* then they're going to break down and give me the good stuff! )
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Sun May 08, 2016 4:49 pm

Would she eat higher grade food if you topped it with raw or maybe low sodium chicken broth?

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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 09, 2016 1:41 am

She probably likes the beneful because of "animal digest".  An ingredient I never heard of until Ami, who always refuses milk bones, was given some milk bone like dog treats from the Fedex driver.  As I started to explain that Ami never touches milk bone, he proceeded to eagerly gobble down the treats.  The FedEx driver explained his vet friend recommended he find the cheapest dog biscuits going, that they were coated with animal digest" and they were like crack for dogs... dogs loved them.  He used them in his practise to garner "patient compliance"  I'm not sure I would really worry about the propylene glycol.  It's used a lot and, while the studies are few,  I believe if there were a real risk, consumer use would show patterns of adverse effect.

Still, beneful would not be on my list of preferred foods.  I like Jenn's suggestion of adding some broth or other high value  additive to a better food.

Personally, I would decide the food I was going to feed, offer that in the appropriate amount and, if untouched after 20 minutes, remove until the next meal.  No treats, no snacks.  And Dad needs to rethink HIS habits.  That will be the tough one.


Last edited by amymeme on Mon May 09, 2016 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 09, 2016 3:17 am

Rooen....If I remember correctly Missy ate the cooked turkey well, how about just adding an ounce or two with the broth on the kibble you want to feed and she does well on? I know it goes against what we all believe our dogs should do on the eating front, but seriously Miya is one of the pickiest eaters, and does drop weight, I feed an ounce or two with her evening meal and she eats it all, she has way more kibble than turkey, It is a lean meat, and not a lot is needed in order to coat the kibble, it's a win/win for both of you. Sometimes we have to go against conventional wisdom with our dogs, and really I would choose that meal for my girl to eat over the Beneful. Or are you talking about this food here
https://www.purinastore.com/brands/moist-meaty/moist-meaty-chopped-burger-36-6-oz-pouches

Which is probably worse than Beneful, but I will admit, before discovering the turkey with the quality grain free kibble, this was some thing Miya would only eat on occasion and nothing else, so I can truly relate.  

Not seeing propylene glycol with either the Beneful nor the Purina.....I do know that it is against FDA and AAFCO for food manufacturers to use propylene glycol in cat food, so something must have been figured out with that. I mean really, they use it in anti freeze...manufacturers use it to sweeten food and also in some instances to bind food together. Animal digest on the other hand is "safer" than propylene glycol, but they are different items. Animal digest is "Animal Digest is a boiled concoction made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. Digest can be sprayed on lower-quality foods lacking good-tasting ingredients to give the food some desirability and palatability. The animals used for this broth can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Ingredients can come from restaurant and supermarket refuse, the dead, diseased, disabled, or dying (“4 D”) animals raised for human food, other farm animals, rodents, pets euthanized at shelters, and so on.".........now again neither product claims they include animal digest. They do however both have meat byproducts which are.......
"Basically, animal by-products are what’s left of a slaughtered animal after the edible parts have been removed. They include the waste2 of meat processing not intended for human consumption. For example…

   Feet
   Backs
   Livers
   Lungs
   Heads
   Brains
   Spleen
   Frames
   Kidneys
   Stomachs
   Intestines
   Undeveloped eggs"

Animal digest and meat byproducts are pretty similar. So I am going to say I read my labels...........it took me forever to read label of dog foods and treats but I do. another ingredient I stay away from..glycerin and that is found in a lot of dog treats and some dog foods, what is it...a derivative of the propylene glycol, but it binds the food or treat, and again can have a sweet taste to it, and yes many human foods have glycerin in it......Rooen, I added all of this so when people read this thread they understand what food manufacturers add to our pets food and treats. again, I would go back to the cooked turkey burger with a little water over a quality grain free food. She did well on it before, she should have no issues now. I do like Jenn's idea of raw, but if she is that picky she may end up eating just the raw and not the kibble, and then she is not getting her proper nutrition, unless you go all raw, and that's a whole other thread. The low sodium chicken broth is an option, if you can find it, for me I never could, and went the turkey route.

Continue to keep us posted........
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Fri May 20, 2016 4:13 pm

Miyas, are you sure our baby girls aren't from the same litter? Because she sounds JUST like my Miss with her eating. Sadly the turkey thing will last about a day or two before she starts putting the kibble in her mouth and spitting the pieces back out without the bits of turkey stuck to it. She does this with cheese, beef broth and pretty much any topping we try to give her. If it's stuck on the kibble she will lick it off and push it to the side.

Beniful with the topings of Moist and Meaty (ONLY burger flavor...she will have none of the stake...) and at times she will pick off the Moist and Meaty and leave the kibble. I kinda caved and decided if she will eat JUST beniful then that would be that. I've tried every kibble I can get my hands on at this point. Lots of raw diets as well. Going down the list....

Taste of the Wild (most flavors)
Merrick (both wet and dry and their Back Country)
Performatrin (And ultra Preformatrin, a brand made by the pet store I work at)
Natural Balance
Blue buffalo
Wild Calling
Wilderness Blue Buffalo
Wellness
Science Diet
Purina
Wuruva
Orijin

Most of these I have tried both their dry kibble and their wet in different flavors. For raw we have tried Natural Instinct and Primal, as well as some freeze dried ones like The Honest Kitchen. Nothing works for more than a few days, then the hunger strike will start and she will start to drop weight, her energy level will get to almost nothing and she will start to feel crappy.

Me and my vet have tried to do a lot of trouble shooting. She had / has lyme and the antibiotic kida ripped through her, after an ultrasound we found out her stomach was inflamed and looked almost like it had first degree sunburn. After two weeks off meds she's made a wonderful turn around, stool is good and she has more energy...but feeding is still a huge issue.

I was thinking of either trying to switch to home 'made' raw but I worry I'll be spending a whole lot of time and money for her to turn her nose up and the whole thing be a bust. Cooked is an option too but I have three dogs to feed and I don't really want to give one something super special (even though she's already getting junk food while the others have a simple but good quality kibble) and leave the others in the cold so to speak.

Next thing we are going to try is going through wet foods and trying to heat them up a bit. Blah...
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Fri May 20, 2016 4:53 pm

Rooen...2 things to look into with your vet SIBO and EPI, both are things I would ask my vet to test and see especially with weight loss. Do not let them persuade you that they are gsd only issues, because they are not, and with the inflamed tummy it could well be sibo.

I also know that cat food is generally higher in protein than dog food, perhaps a cat food would work to her liking, the only item that I know 100% for sure may be lacking with cat food is enough zinc for a husky, so you would have to check and see if any cat foods have zinc included. From what I understand you can feed a dog cat food but you can not feed a cat dog food, so it may be worth looking into. Continue to update.

One last thing, with Miya, I do rotate the flavors of Taste of the wild along with rotating the meat that I top it off, so maybe you can rotate chicken, turkey, hamburger, etc, and see if there is more success at her eating the kibble.

And sadly yes, they do sound like they could be siblings, ugh, it can be frustrating, I feel for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Fri May 20, 2016 5:17 pm

The weight loss isn't major, she never drops more than a pound and we havn't had a really issue with it but I'll for sure ask about those two things.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 23, 2016 10:59 am

I have nothing to add to your situation @Rooen I hope you find the right stuff for your pup.

But I'm just gonna post my question here now to not make another "picky" thread.
-Can a dog become picky later on?
 I say this because lately my girlfriend and I have noticed that Mylo rejects his food a little more often (breakfast). It happened last week but he some type of tummy ache so he didn't feel like eating until dinner time. It happened again this morning...I put the bowl down and immediately I noticed he was not excited to eat he went to the bowl, took some pieces out and put them on the floor...then again. Unless he ate something while on a run around the house but still I wonder if he is just becoming picky. One could say he is regulating but the last time that was thought here it ended up being the greenies I was giving him that I think made him upset cause after I stopped giving him those he began eating as usual.
I don't mind putting some meaty topper on his food but I know that's not the point yet unless it needs to become a thing.
Fromm is a great food and I love feeding it to him..I would hate to have to switch foods yet again.
So yeah, can a dog become picky later on?

*Excuse my rambling..I'm at the car dealer bored and gonna be here for a while...AC problems. I wish Mylo was here with me in the waiting room haha
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 23, 2016 1:17 pm

Dave...Miya is not a breakfast eater, Sofie some days doesn't eat breakfast, yikes she is only 9 months old. Now there are days that Miya and Sofie both eat breakfast. I do rotate my food between 3 flavors of Taste of the Wild. Since Mylo has no food intolerance and Fromm does offer a variety of flavors, I would rotate his food first. As an adult he should be fine without a slow switch, manufacturers like Fromm make their food in such a way that you can rotate with most dogs not having issues. It could be the heat so that may be another issue, and he just wants dinner only. Maybe make his breakfast a little later? Lastly, I have found a treat that I do not mind feeding that helps with joints and hips, and I give one treat in the morning and then feed Miya a cup cup and a half of kibble for her evening meal, with yes a meat topper. I think finding a happy medium that works for the both of you is key, maintaining weight and keeping the healthy coat and energy. They do indeed talk to us, so listen, and adjust, maybe he is not picky, just the heat means he may require less food.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 23, 2016 1:31 pm

@MiyasMomma wrote:
Dave...Miya is not a breakfast eater, Sofie some days doesn't eat breakfast, yikes she is only 9 months old. Now there are days that Miya and Sofie both eat breakfast. I do rotate my food between 3 flavors of Taste of the Wild. Since Mylo has no food intolerance and Fromm does offer a variety of flavors, I would rotate his food first. As an adult he should be fine without a slow switch, manufacturers like Fromm make their food in such a way that you can rotate with most dogs not having issues. It could be the heat so that may be another issue, and he just wants dinner only. Maybe make his breakfast a little later? Lastly, I have found a treat that I do not mind feeding that helps with joints and hips, and I give one treat in the morning and then feed Miya a cup cup and a half of kibble for her evening meal, with yes a meat topper. I think finding a happy medium that works for the both of you is key, maintaining weight and keeping the healthy coat and energy. They do indeed talk to us, so listen, and adjust, maybe he is not picky, just the heat means he may require less food.

I even offered him a salmon great (also from Fromm) and he wasn't excited.
Anyways..Being able to rotate recipes is a big reason why I like Fromm.
There is a bag of the Beef recipe at my girlfriends house for when he eats there and at my house there's a bag of the Surf & Turf recipe. Most of the time it's the beef one for breakfast and then surf & turf for dinner then either or for dinner just depends where we are at. Half cups every time and a little more for dinner. But yeah maybe I'll do breakfast later..something that would be hard to explain to my gf though. But I'm gonna be watching him before I start any changes yet. When he skips breakfast and lunch I like to add a topper AFTER he eats some kibble first only then I'll give him some more with some meaty topper a couple minutes later.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 23, 2016 2:11 pm

I can't say anything, Avalanche just doesn't eat until he feels like it and Sasha is as apt to eat breakfast as not ('course *she* could afford to skip a few!).

I wonder - and if I'm not getting too intrusive - how about the humans in the group.  I seldom eat breakfast - it's noon and I'm thinking about getting something for my first meal of the day.  Do you all eat breakfast?  I'm wondering if the dogs are less inclined since they don't smell / see us eating ....
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Mon May 23, 2016 4:29 pm

Al I tend to eat breakfast late morning early afternoon, so in theory you may be right....at least with my two.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Picky...   Wed May 25, 2016 4:59 am

Hmmm interesting theory, and well most times we are eating something for breakfast..9ish am which is when he gets fed his first half cup of the day. But I guess there's days when he doesn't feel like breakfast. He was excited for all his three portions these past two days.
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