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 What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW

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AtticusKronosVulcan
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PostSubject: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Fri May 27, 2016 4:54 pm

Hi all!


My 5month old Alaskan malamute has been having diarrhea off and on for the past couple weeks. He will be fine for a couple days then have watery stools, sometimes explosive. I will fast him for half a day until it stops then slowly feed him more of his TOTW and it starts to firm up on his own. But then the cycle repeats??.....

My question is, what is a good kibble for him to eat that will be less rich than TOTW because I'm thinking that may be the problem.

* he has had 3 fecal exams since coming home with me at 10 weeks old. First one came back with giardia and coccidia. Did one round of meds, giardia gone but still had coccidia on 2nd fecal exam.
One more round of meds and his 3rd fecal exam came back clear and he was issued a clean bill of health.
*then the stool issues started happen ending. Mind you, with both giardia and coccidia he never had a loose stool and never threw up. He was symptom-less.

*he does not like bland chicken and white rice. Refused to eat it.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Fri May 27, 2016 5:56 pm

Were you feeding the Pacific stream puppy? or the high prairie? or both? What else are you feeding him? As in treats and snacks. Having an idea on this I can help better. Most puppy foods run high in protein so that is where richness comes from, but this issue he is having can also be an intolerance or allergy from a specific ingredient or treat as well. Lastly this also is a symptom of over feeding, so how much and how many times a day do you feed him?
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Fri May 27, 2016 10:15 pm

Pacific stream. Nothing else.
No treats recently. Haven't had a chance to buy more after running out.
I have been feeding him 2 cups. Morning and evening.
Any food recommendations? I want to switch him asap to see if that's the problem.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 1:03 am

I am going to be honest with you, switching foods is not always the answer. You really want to try and keep on he same food, because switching can make matters worse, and you end up in the feeding game, where so many pet parents get into with a) picky eaters, b) constant tummy upset, c) eventual allergies, d) can't figure out the issue. Now I am going to have to play a guessing game on his weight....the guidelines for his age and me guessing his weight at around 40 ish pounds he should not be eating 4 cups a food a day. I think if you backed off the food a little and work with that, he should be better. It is something that most of us here recommend new new owners, because typically they over feed and run into the mushy poop issue. Being your first Mal, and him being a larger animal may have you feel like you should be feeding him more. You want a slow steady raise in weight, you do not want him to grow too fast. Myy gsd pup s considered a large breed as well and at 9 months old I have never fed her 4 cups of food, had I, I would be sure to see poop issues. 3 cups of kibble was max I have ever fed her, and it was between 5-7 months of age. what I would do first before switching kibble, is to feed 1.5 cups twice a day for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. By your description it gets solid after not having a meal and doesn't get bad again until he has been eating his normal allotment for several meals, to me that is indicative of over feeding. If he is over 60 pounds at 5 months, well then maybe a different issue altogether. But between 30 and 60 pounds at 5 months he should be eating 3 cups of food a day. I am going to be honest there is few if any bland limited ingredient puppy food out there, because they require certain levels of protein and bone, or like I said from another post calcium to phospherous ratios. Some of the top brands like Fromm, Acana, Orijen, have too much protein for certain breeds. Typically fish is one of the easiest proteins to feed puppies. If I were you at this point is try the 3 cups a day, split into 2 meals. If after a few weeks of this and no treats, use his allotment for training treats, he still has the issue, then 3 things I would do. 1)Have him retested for giardia or coccidia or worms. 2)Transition to an all life stage food, which really should be over 6 months and preferably 12-18 months old, when you do, I would start with Taste of the wild for an easier transition, there are all life stage foods they offer at less protein. 3) add 2tablespoons of can pure pumpkin (not pie filling) into his diet daily, and then wait until he is slightly older to transition. I swear I have looked at other options for my girl, but you need a balance of fat, protein and fiber in a puppies diet. If your guy has issues with TOTW, he more than likely will have issues with the others, because most puppy food is about the same. As an adult there is where you get more variety and choices, and options to work with to figure out what will work best for him.

By all means if you are still having issues, then ask. But the easiest, simplest route right now is decrease his food intake.
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 2:02 am

I mislead you I'm sorry. I should have specified. I am feeding two cups a day TOTAL. 1 c for breakfast and 1 c for dinner.

I know not to over feed. So hat is not the issue.
His last checkup a few weeks ago he was 34lbs.
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 2:04 am

So I should keep him on 2 cups of totw a day and add 1tbs of pure pumpkin to each cup?
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 3:36 am

Ok that makes things a wee bit different....and he is growing at a nice rate, great for you! Although his tummy troubles I can understand where you are coming from...........well, yes the 2 cups, and pumpkin, ugh.....I have no idea how he is not getting enough fiber, because it just seems that way. My breeder loves Victors dog food, it actually is slightly cheaper that TOTW, it fits the parameters of large breed puppies..........ack, it may be the fish, which, eh some dogs don't do well on fish. My gsd only has major issues with chicken, and yea, super high protein is too rich for her, 25-28% seems her sweet spot, but then you have to find the right levels of fiber, and some food is just dismal for fiber, it's such a balancing act for sure, but at this point yep, he is having an issue, thanks for clarifying how much you are feeding.....I am sorry you are having this issue. I switched Sofie over to TOTW all life stage, because the kibble was so small and she inhaled, also had issues similar to your guy with chicken and high protein. I really didn't want to switch brands, because my older girl who is a husky is soooooo very picky on what she eats, and has been good on TOTW.....I have had her on the Sierra Mountain (the lamb) and I have also gave her the Pine Forrest with good results. I still feed her between 2-3 cups a day, and she is at a nice weight at 9 months about 65 pounds, growing slow and steady. The other puppy formula may be worth a try or the two I have mentioned, because you are staying within the same brand and because he has had tummy issues, switching hasn't been an issue for me and may be worth trying, the worse it can do is have him continue have tummy issues, and you should know within a week or two if there is still a problem.

Other's you can try Fromm grain free large breed puppy, not as much fiber, but who knows, the Victor puppy(2 kinds) again not much fiber.

I am really sorry you are going through this. Has your vet said anything on his weight? I think Sofie was at 42 pounds at 5 months, 46 pounds at 6 months and then shot up to 62 pounds at 8.5 months. I figured her low weight gain at 4-6 months was because of the excessive pooping and loose poop. I also think as they mature and get to the year old age, that they slow down some and their poops just even out.

I think I gave you a few options.....if sticking to TOTW I would go with 5 pound bags, and wait about a week to 2 weeks to see any results. If going to a new brand then 4-6 weeks for any results. Please keep us updated, I know he has been a difficult tummy pup, and I really feel for you, both of mine are/were, so I truly understand what you're going thru.
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 3:53 am

Thank you for all of the input. I would hate to switch brands because my 2 huskies are both on the adult totw formula and love it. So eventually once the malamute is old enough, I would like them to all be on an all life stage that is the same.

As for the puppy, what are the other totw formulas you recommend for him? I'm confused if the ones you mentioned for sofie were suitable for him at his age or not? Your right, maybe it is the fish! Never even considered that! If this continues I think I will get another fecal exam next week. Just to rule anything else out for sure.

But I feel if he did have GIARDIA or COCCIDIA again that he wouldn't have days with normal poop and that it would be diarrhea all the time and possibly vomit. But he does have days with normal poop. All week was normal except for this morning the diarrhea started again. He had two watery stools this morning and no poops since and is acting totally normal like always so I just fed him 1 cup of food a few minutes ago and I mixed Ina tablespoon of pure pumpkin and he gobbled it all up. He's sleeping right now so I'll see how he does throughout the night.

Thank you for your help! I will keep updating in this section
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 3:56 am

Let me add, i know you want to fit the calcium to phospherous ratios, TOTW High prairie puppy is slightly higher, however, as I mentioned above, i think sometimes it's best to try what's available within current brand first before switching brands, especially with so many tummy issues. If you feel the High Prairie puppy is too high in protein which can be too rich, try the Sierra Mountain (lamb) it is only 25% protein, Sofie has been doing real good on this, and only 1 protein source, lamb. If you go this route do the 2 cups a day, no pumpkin, if his poops normalize, try increasing at a 1/4 cup at a time, up to no more than 3 cups a day. He does seem on the light side for weight, although lean is fantastic, you do want him to have a good steady climb. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 4:01 am

No problem, you asked when I switched Sofie over, she was 4 months, I hated to do it, but she inhaled the puppy kibble, so the Lamb was bigger kibble, slowed her down, one protein source, lower in protein %, fat and fiber seemed to be just right for her. She does great on it, and Miya eats it as well.
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 4:26 am

He also inhales his food. Every. Single. Time. Lol like he's never eaten before! But I love that he always has an appetite. Makes me relieved to see him so happy. So switching him over to Sierra mountain won't be a bad thing? He turned 5 months on the 23rd of this month...

He isn't skinny. He looks like a huge butterball. Our vet, same vet we've been going to with our older boys since they were little, told me Vulkan looks like he will be a big boy. His paws are huge! I'm not worried about him being small, but I would like to see his poops firm up so I know he is retaining enough nutrients.

Hopefully we have a good week ahead! Fingers crossed!!

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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 1:32 pm

I have not had any issues with her being on the sierra mountain. many large breed owners will switch to an all life stage at 6 months for various reasons, so I really wouldn't worry too much. a lot of puppy food has multi protein sources, and animals like huskies, mals, and gsds, just do better on a single protein, for whatever reason, maybe allergic reaction and switching to a single source protein helps alleviate allergic symptoms. Once their immunity builds back up, and they retain more nutrients, their bodies will accept other proteins. I know some people have issue with TOTW because of recalls several years ago, but, as I have found they offer a great bit of variety to work within their food line. I wish you luck, and remember, that food changes may take a few weeks to actually see results, in my case with Sofie it took about a week, which I was surprised, figured it would take longer.

Fingers crossed for you!!
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 2:02 pm

Thank you! I am going to go get a bag of Siwrra Mountain right now!
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat May 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Vulcan just ate his first cup of Sierra mountain. Let's see how this goes Smile
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:37 am

So he has had diarrhea again today. 4 runny stools. I'm going to take him to the vet in the morning but I don't even know what to tell them? Or what tests they should run? He seems totally normal except this stool situation??.....

I'm at a loss Sad
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PostSubject: Re: What's a good bland(er) kibble? Stool issues on TOTW   Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:17 am

Ugh, well, you can retest for giardia and coccidia, you may want to test for worms, sometimes do not appear in fecal samples, and may have to retest. There are other issues out there, but golly, I have to say they do not normally affect puppies, but adults, IBD, SIBO, and EPI come to mind, and they require specific tests.Those issues tend to be young adult issues, and is more commonly seen in gsd's, but has been seen in all breeds, and more specific to large breed dogs.

Did you ever have him on a bland diet? Sorry can't remember, and any probiotics that the vet gave you? Did they ever prescribe Metro (long name it's an anti biotic pretty specific for severe diarrhea). Has he gained weight? His weight to me is light, although you want a lean pup, he should be pretty equal in weight compared to my gsd, in fact your guy should at adult weight be heavier than my girl at adult weight.

For the moment until you can get him back in to the vet, I would, if he was having solid poops, continue with the pumpkin. You can try a bland diet until you see a vet also.....I found the easiest, blandest meal for my girl to be..

Turkey burger boiled in about a cup of water. Double cook plain rice (not the minute rice variety, just plain white rice) you want it stick, so double cook. Mix the turkey, the left over water of the turkey and rice, and scoop a half cup, (half cup 3-4 times a day) add a tablespoon of pumpkin, and a tablespoon of plain greek yogurt or kefir. That's a plain and bland as it gets. The turkey is low fat, low grease helps with tummies, rice soaks up excess liquid in tummy, pumpkin is fiber and firms every thing up, and the yogurt helps to add good gut flora.

Once the vet runs a parasite and worm test, if they comeback clean, ask if the vet is familiar with IBD, SIBO, and EPI, if they are they know what tests to do. I do not want to burden you with that at the moment. It's nothing terrible, but a drastic diet change, that may not be needed.

You can also opt to get an allergy test done, it also can be expensive, but if he has an allergy to something it is the fastest way to know what he is allergic to, then you would know what food to buy. Switching food, may be an option, but this may follow every time you switch food also. Most companies use similar ingredients. Natural Balance, and Wellness both have limited ingredient lines, but again, if it's an allergy, you want to know what he is allergic to, so you can avoid it. I mention this since you have tried different flavors of TOTW, so it may not be a protein he is allergic too, it appears that it's also not because of too high protein, since the Sierra is a low protein. It could be a fat issue, and or a fiber issue. But again, you need to rule out some things first. The only other flavor that I do recommend in TOTW is the Pine Forrest, it may be worth to try, since it contains no potatoes, so that way you could try and rule out beef, chicken, potatoes, since none are in that flavor, it is also slightly higher in the fiber, which may also help. I do rotate between the Pine Forrest and The Sierra Mountain. Worth a shot to try the Pine Forrest, before giving up on this brand.
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