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 Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)

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Loki14
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PostSubject: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

We treated our 6 month old, 40 pound husky on the 6th of this month with Pet Armor Plus, and he is still whining and scratching at the fleas.

Is there anything else we can do until it's time for treatment again? A natural treatment? What about a flea dip/bath?


Last edited by Loki14 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:57 am

Give a dose of capstar. It will kill most adult fleas within 4 hours and virtually all of them by 24 hours. And vacuum, vacuum, vacuum. Wash all bedding, human and dog. And if you have a cat or other pets, give them capstar as well. And a preventive.
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Rumflower
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:01 am

I'm not familiar with pet armor plus but did you bathe doggy the week before or the week after treatment? For frontline I learned the hard way you can't do that, lol.

As for natural treatment I've heard of using apple cider vinegar or coconut oil, but I haven't done it personally and can't vouch for them.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:36 pm

@Rumflower wrote:
I'm not familiar with pet armor plus but did you bathe doggy the week before or the week after treatment? For frontline I learned the hard way you can't do that, lol.

As for natural treatment I've heard of using apple cider vinegar or coconut oil,  but I haven't done it personally and can't vouch for them.

It's supposed to be the same as Frontline Plus. I believe he was bathed a little over a week before treatment, and hasn't been bathed since.

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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:37 pm

@amymeme wrote:
Give a dose of capstar.  It will kill most adult fleas within 4 hours and virtually all of them by 24 hours. And vacuum, vacuum, vacuum. Wash all bedding, human and dog.  And if you have a cat or other pets, give them capstar as well.  And a preventive.

Yes, we're treating the yard and carpets too here soon. I will get some of the Capstar. I think our neighbors are where they're coming from, they have three dogs outside that they pretty much don't do anything with.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:19 pm

Capstar works really well at killing fleas on the dog, I've been going through the same thing as you, its been a battle for sure. Capstar is only going to kill fleas for hours though, not days or months so everything else needs attention as well to get the upper hand, like bedding, carpets, etc. on the carpets, food grade D.E (not the one for pools) is very helpful, sprinkle it down and use your hands to rub it in, it's entirely safe, you can even put it on your dog. I have a thread just from I think last week where some very helpful advice was given, maybe give it a read...I think I posted it in general forum. Good luck! Fleas are evil!

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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:25 pm

Jimmy is right - the capstar kills the adult fleas on the dog that day. Same time as capstar, make sure the fipronil is up to date. And all the other stuff...
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whitehusky3
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:37 pm

Oh, fleas! What a horrible thing to deal with! Luckily, I have a tried and true method of getting rid of them within a few hours, and it hasn't failed me once.

I never used Capstar, but that's only because I didn't know where to get it. I highly recommend it because it has a very good reputation of being effective (but be aware it's intended to get rid of fleas within 24 hours but wears off after that). I recently found out it's available at Mill's Fleet Farm, if you have one in your area.

First, I give all of my pets a flea bath. Usually my cat gets one, but the last time we had fleas, I just put a topical solution on her shoulders and it was effective.

Then, I remove all living creatures from my home. You'll want to pick a nice day outside because you'll be out there for two hours.

Finally, I set off flea foggers all over my home (3-4 are enough to cover my 2,500 sq. ft. home). Some people don't like to use foggers, but they are VERY effective, so I recommend them.

After 2 hours, I go back into the house to clean up the foggers and open all the windows to air out the house.

Voilà! No more fleas!

My mother uses a variation of this by giving her dogs flea baths and then spraying all around her house with Raid Flea spray every morning for about a week.

There was one time when I had a minor flea problem that didn't require the use of foggers. I bathed my dogs and then put flea powder down on all the carpeting. That was sufficient to get rid of them. But in that instance, the fleas were only in one room, so it was pretty easy to get rid of them using the carpet powder.

Oh, and one more thing... I never treated my yard for fleas, but I know there are many people who need to otherwise they keep coming back. So that's something you'll want to consider. I think the recommendation for treating the yard is diatomaceous earth, which you can also get at Mill's Fleet Farm.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:23 pm

Foggers work... just don't have birds in the house. First hand experience, not a good outcome.

Wal-Mart carries either co-star or it's generic or both, can't remember. Also, Tractor Supply.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:50 am

I got some Capguard yesterday from Tractor Supply and gave it to all of the animals. Also, the cats still need their Pet Armor treatment, they just freak out and attack so we've been putting it off.

I found some old Insect killer in the shed and treated the back yard with it. I vacuumed everything and all the dog beds yesterday too. I plan on picking up some DE to try as well.

I'm not finding anything on Co-Star, though. Are the Sentry or Raid flea foggers about the same thing?
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:02 am

@Loki14 wrote:

I'm not finding anything on Co-Star, though. Are the Sentry or Raid flea foggers about the same thing?

Stupid tablet...Capstar...their are various generics out there - I got mine first at Tractor Supply, 2nd time at Walmart, same active ingredient as Capstar, different name. And Co-Star is NOT one of them. Sorry for the confusion.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:07 pm

@amymeme wrote:

@Loki14 wrote:

I'm not finding anything on Co-Star, though. Are the Sentry or Raid flea foggers about the same thing?


Stupid tablet...Capstar...their are various generics out there - I got mine first at Tractor Supply, 2nd time at Walmart, same active ingredient as Capstar, different name.  And Co-Star is NOT one of them.  Sorry for the confusion.

That makes sense! Lol

Yeah I got mine yesterday from Tractor Supply, it was called Cap Guard, I think, but yeah it is the same active as Capstar.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:54 pm

We have treated him with Petarmor plus the past 2 months, he has a couple weeks before the next dose. I just recently made the mixture below and have used it on him. Can this mixture be used more than once a month while I'm trying to get rid of the fleas?

I've been at my parent ever since we got Loki and they have neighbors and a yard. Fleas are always really bad in the summers here in Oklahoma, but I believe our neighbors outside dogs have them but never get treated, so its hard to get rid of them..

We are moving into our own apartment this week, just me my girlfriend, Loki, and her cat. We plan on giving another dose of Petarmor, buying more Capstar, giving a flea bath, and using the below mixture (if it is okay to use more than once a month), also we have used some DE once here. It is the Garden Safe Insect Killer with DE. I think it is safe for animals? Anyways.. the apartment has wood floor besides the bedroom which has carpet.

What flea bath do you guys recommend or what ingredient/s?

I'm sorry this is so long, but this is going to be the best time to get rid of the fleas for Loki and I feel bad that he is so itchy all day long. My parents dogs have some fleas too and so do the cats, but they don't seem to bother them nearly as much..

Also, is there an all in one flea, tick, heart worm preventative? I've seen Trifexis but have heard horrible things that it does for dogs.

Guest wrote:
Yes i use my own mixture on my lot
10 / 15 drops pure teatree oil ( available from health food shops )
75 ml water
2/3 drops of lemon juice.
If they have fleas or ticks you can add 5ml of vodka to the mix ( i do this anyway )
Dispense the mixture into a spray bottle and away you go.
In all the years i have owned dogs i have never had a single flea using this mixture alone.
I have never used a chemical treatment like frontline as kia has super sensetive skin and this would irritate her.
Use about once every 3 months ( more often in summer )

I also use a tea tree shampoo and coat spray ( available from pets at home )

Fleas , flies an other insects hate the smell of Tea tree and anything citrus scented.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:08 pm

Did you use capstar? And follow with a fipronil with insect growth regulator?

There are some combo products out there. I've found it cheaper to use generic ivermectin tabs and a rotation of fipronil, permethrin and pyriproxyfen as well as some generic wormers.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:13 pm

@amymeme wrote:
Did you use capstar?  And follow with a fipronil with insect growth regulator?  

There are some combo products out there.  I've found it cheaper to use generic ivermectin tabs and a rotation of fipronil, permethrin and pyriproxyfen as well as some generic wormers.

OK - petarmour plus is fipronil plus igr
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AryaGirl
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:22 pm

I swear by coconut oil, I used an organic one on my girl because the meds I put on her did not work at all.. Wouldn't say it 100% rid of them but they were reduced exponentially. Just did that until I was able to get her on Bravecto which worked wonders and last 3 months.

Will warn though my girl licked herself quite a bit with it on and it gave her diarrhea but it won't hurt them, it's actually good for them.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Yes, we used Capstar before and after the Pet Armor.. I plan on dosing capstar a few days and then the PerArmor in the middle of the few days of capstar. I'll use a permethrin flea bath too.. When should I do this?

I'll look into coconut oil as well.

And I'm sorry, but Bravecto is what I've seen bad things about, not the Trifexis.. Have you not had any issues with Bravecto and have you seen any of the stories about it? I've read it's killed people's dogs and destroyed their livers.. So I'm kind of scared to use it. I'm not trying to scare you or say you're hurting your dog.. Lol I'm just getting more information on it!
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TigerCzarina
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:43 pm

As far as trifexis, we use it on both our dogs and have no problems - we read the horror stories too, but we talked to the vet and they talked us through side effects, issues, etc. Just keep in mind trifexis DOES NOT protect against ticks. I don't know about "natural remedies" or flea baths... The only time we used a flea bath treatment it poisoned our cat so we just fine comb it all the way.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:14 pm

For the past two summers, the fleas at my house were what I would consider severe, I was doing the topicals, I treated outside and inside, used D.E, vacuumed atleast 3 to 4 times a day, and I would think it was getting better and then bam, more fleas. Everyone in my neighborhood had switched from topicals to the chewable s...so I took my two in, had them examined and bought Nexgard. Within about a few hours, itching had stopped and much like Capstar, I could see the fleas coming to the surface and dying. It's been one month and no more fleas. What I also like about Nexgard is it kills ticks too...I don't even know what a tick would look like and both mine have some pretty dense coats and I was always worried they would have them and I wouldn't know. Now I have some peace of mind. Nexgard has the typical side effects of the others, vomiting being the most common, and Kohdi did throw up the next morning...but since it was after the 2 hours, I didn't need to redose him. Other than that, I saw no other side effects. Or fleas! Once in awhile after a walk, I might see a flea on one of them but it's shortlived.

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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:17 pm

maybe try sentinel or nexgard? haven't heard too many negatives on those and they are a flea/heartworm preventive. I will never use comfortis and trifexis, but every dog is different. I did use ovitrol it comes in a spray, or you can wipe it, on my husky when she was young and worked to get fleas off of her, have heard bathing with dawn dishsoap is good. Lastly be very careful with oils when you have a cat, very dangerous to cats.
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:29 pm

@Loki14 wrote:
And I'm sorry, but Bravecto is what I've seen bad things about, not the Trifexis.. Have you not had any issues with Bravecto and have you seen any of the stories about it? I've read it's killed people's dogs and destroyed their livers.. So I'm kind of scared to use it. I'm not trying to scare you or say you're hurting your dog.. Lol I'm just getting more information on it!

It was necessary to use on her because she had a case of "puppy mange", which is she's allergic to the mites in her skin and it caused her to have some bald spots. Bravecto killed the fleas and mites so no more mange - vet said by the time Bravecto wears off her immune system shouldn't have any sort of reaction to mites anymore. Smile No effects with my little lady she was perfectly fine on it but I understand certain dogs don't take to certain medications. I know some dogs skin "burns" from the applicator type. It's risky with any medication. Bets thing to do is educate yourself and ask your vets advice on what they believe you should use - mine just happened to like using Bravecto because it's so effective.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:00 am

ONe problem may be the baths - the topical flea/tick products work by distributing the ingredients throught the skins sebum glands - frequent bathing will remove the sebum for a couple of days.
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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:39 pm

I appreciate all of the responses! I will look into Nexguard if this next round of treatments doesn't work.

We have Capstar, Sentry flea and tick shampoo with oatmeal, pet armor plus, and the spray I made from the above instruction.

Here is the plan

Day 1- cap star and bathe with shampoo a couple hours afterwards
Day 2- cap star and pet armor plus topical (if it's not too soon after bathing)
Day 3- cap star and flea spray
Day 4- cap star

Vacuum everyday, swiffer everyday, vacuum dog everyday because he loves it lol

Does this sound okay? I know it is a lot at once but I'm hoping doing this and moving into the new place on day 2, which is tomorrow, will get rid of them for good.

His pet armor plus will be about 8 days early.. But, it is the .045 oz dose for dogs 23-44 pounds and he hovers between 42-45 pounds and the 45 pound dose is double at .09 oz so I believe this should be fine.

If this doesn't work we will look into Nexguard in 30 days. We also have DE that we can sprinkle over the carpet in the bedroom. We will wash all his blankets and pillows as well.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:29 pm

Others will probably disagree but *I* have a major problem with what you're planning - unless you plan on killing your dog, that is.

First off, let's see if we really understand the flea life cycle. Take a look at the flea life cycle on pedtmd.com (a handy site, BTW). As you'll see there, fleas go through four stages and only about 5% of the 'fleas' are adults. The other 95% are other stages and from egg to adult is approximately a couple of weeks up to a couple of months - depending on the environment. What you have to achieve is a flea free environment and that's going to take a couple of months of work - at least.

Secondly, more poison in your dogs system does not equate more flea death - capstar is intended for occasional use and while no effects from overdosing are reported, *I* would be very reluctant to use it the regimen you've outlined.
First you have the CapStar - effective within 4 hours for up to 48 hours (reduced effectiveness over 24 hours, but still effective for 90%, if I remember correctly, of adult fleas.)
Secondly you're going to bathe him in, I presume, a flea control product (which won't do much good unless you really know how to bathe a dog to resolve a flea problem)
Third you're going to use a flea spray on top of all this ... again you're aiming all of this at the adult fleas (which is where the primary target really is).

Personally - and this is indeed my own personal take - you're giving / putting on your dog some serious poisons. Judicious use is one thing, heavy use is quite simply something else.

Accept the fact that you're not going to get rid of your flea problem in the four days you have outlined. Even in good (warm / humid) climates, you're looking at a week - ten days for eggs to hatch and be affected by the Pet Armor Plus.

In my 70 years (and I've owned dogs for 40+ of them) I've never found any one product or regimen that will kill all the fleas at once, it's an ongoing battle that you can win - - but it is a battle.
Now, here's the problem ... as I said, only about 5% of the fleas are adults, the rest are eggs, pupa and larva that aren't going to be affected by the capstar. If my understanding is correct, you can't do anything to any of the early stages - you interrupt the fle life cycle by killing the adult so it can't lay more eggs. There's nothing that you can do about the existing eggs (app 50% of the 'fleas'). Sure, you can wash some of them off but in the long run not enough to really make a significant difference.

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Loki14
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PostSubject: Re: Still Fleas After Treated (Update, still need help)   Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:51 pm

Okay, so cap star once a week maybe every two weeks? I didn't realize how little we're adult fleas.

You still didn't give me the best course of action for the products I have on hand. Cap star, then bathe in the flea shampoo containing oatmeal, then give the Pet Armor topical?

I'm sure it is very common to use Capstar+Topical flea medicine together, it is nothing new or dangerous. Also, the flea "spray" is water, lemon juice, tea tree oil, and a small amount of alcohol, I'm certainly not going to kill my dog with this.

What is the correct way to bathe for fleas, then?
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