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 Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?

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Starfire
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PostSubject: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:21 am

So I wouldn't say I'm an expert with genetics. (unless its cat genetics)
But I feel like I've always had a decent grasp on it.

But after researching, I'm not sure if it's just because huskies come in such a wide variety of patterns/colors/ect that I'm a little lost.

So I'm expecting a puppy from two red/white(kinda?) dogs.

The female is a red/white with a blue eye and a brown/blue parti eye. She looks like a standard textbook red/white husky

It gets complicated with the dad. He's a red husky, but not really white? He kinda ombres down to a tan color on the face and legs and under-ness of him. Kinda looking more like a wolfish-pattern. He also has a blue eye and a brown/blue parti eye.

My question is what would the pups look like? Would the parti eyes get passed down? Or would the eyes be just blue or brown? Does anything about their genetics make sense or is it just a dice toss?

Obviously the pups will be red but will they be red/white like their mom or that weird ombre-blend like the father? Also, is it true that red huskies don't really have blue-blue eyes? Cause I've seen pictures with striking blue eyes but I figured they were edited.

As you can tell I am bad with waiting and surprises. I know I'll love my puppy no matter what.
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Kmanweiss
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:56 am

Genetics for anything is complicated.
You'd need to know what is dominant or recessive for a breed.
I'd assume the darker colors are more dominant, but I don't know that for sure.
I'd assume the blue eyes are recessive and the parti eye trait is even more recessive, but again, only assumptions.

Based on the parents only, I'd guess red with possible tan tones in certain areas.  Blue, or Blue/Parti eyes would be the most likely combos.  Again, just a guess.

To get any more accurate you'd need to go deeper into the lineage.
Take humans for instance.  I have dark brown hair and dark brown eyes.  My wife has blue eyes and dark dirty blonde hair.  Brown eyes and brown hair would be the best guess....but all three of my kids have bright blond hair and blue eyes.  The genetic lottery combined a recessive eye color and hair color from my mom to give my children about a 50% chance of having either blonde hair or blue eyes, and about a 25% chance of having both.  And yet all three of my children have both traits.

What I would suggest is that you don't think about it any more than you already have.  I've seen people get excited about a future puppy and envision everything about it in their heads....then when the puppy is born and looks a little outside what they predicted, they are let down.  The last thing you want to do is go into a new relationship with any sense of negativity. Just work on the research and prepping your home for your new family member.
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KairoAndEmber
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:17 am

I can only answer to the blue-blue eyes. Kairo has the most beautiful bright light-blue eyes I've ever seen. We actually call her Demon Dog just because of them - they make her look so intense! I have pictures on the forum (but not a link right now, sorry - posting fast while at work).

Try not to get caught up in what MIGHT happen. You really only care about the personality in the end. You could always get a head start by asking about the parent's temperments, abilities, etc. But as stated before me, don't worry about it any more than that. There really is no point Smile
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:39 am

Actually, I'd like to hear a good answer to this myself.  If you breed two of almost anything else you can look at a Mendellian chart and the result will pretty much be what's expected.  But when it come to Huskies, I think it gets thrown out.  

Here (and associated pages) is a simple discussion of some of what affect a dogs coat colour. (The author says simple, not me!)

Another site discusses dog eye colour in general but part way down the page there's a discussion about Huskies. I wandered this site for a while and it's interesting. Since he says he can't have any large pets, he has rats - and I believe we also have some ratters on our site, no??

At least the gentle-person in the UK doesn't suggest that this is simple!

Good luck understanding Husky genetics ... as I said, I don't think they have any:)
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:52 pm

Don't assume the pups will be red. I don't remember where I read it but red is something like the recessive end of black. Pups could come out black and white. I wish the search bar here wasn't suddenly so bad. I think lani did a break down on this at one time.

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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:00 pm

The only way I've found to get any kind of reasonable return is to go to Advanced Search, enter my search criteria and the tap on Google Search. Yes, it does return it as a google search but for IAHT only.
I've done searches from the search bar that I *KNOW* should be found only to have it return *nothing* ...
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:00 pm

From what i know from things that have been said here and with others, 2 reds will not always make reds, there will mostly be a mix of colors.

has this pair been breed before? that would give you the best idea of what could happen.

Have you done your home work on making sure this is a responsible breeder? have the dogs have their hips and eyes checked? are they over 2yrs of age?

in all honestly if your breeder is a reputable breeder they would have all these answers for you as they should know what they are talking about if they are breeding these 2 dogs.

http://www.itsahuskything.com/t1042-how-to-find-a-reputable-breeder

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Starfire
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:33 pm

I think you all are confusing the point that I'm asking strictly because I have a preference for my puppy!
I'm going to love my pup no matter what they end up looking like. I just like researching these kind of things because they interest me.
I don't even prefer red huskies but I'm claiming a pup in a litter that comes from red huskies because I love the breed so much and believe it'll be beautiful no matter what.

I also have a reputable breeder, I have seen the litter's lineage go way back and she's already answered enough questions for me. I joined here specifically so I wouldn't bombard her with questions 20 times a day because I don't want to annoy her.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:26 pm

According to this article (its validity I do not know) 2 reds can only produce a red, a red splashcoat or piepald or a white with liver points because red is homozygous for autosomally recessive red factor. I am quoting - not sure this is true but I haven't really researched it.

http://www.alpinesibes.com/genetics.shtml
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:45 pm

Jesa, I think we all went the way we did because you ask "My question is what would the pups look like? Would the parti eyes get passed down? Or would the eyes be just blue or brown? Does anything about their genetics make sense or is it just a dice toss?" so we headed that way with our answers.  

We don't mind questions, we don't even mind "*That* isn't what I meant" but you might have to clarify what it is you're looking for if the answers aren't 'right'.  

Sibe genetics is indeed a very odd thing, at least to my mind.  I don't breed, and my only resource in fact is what I've seen here and what I've seen seems to suggest that, other than the grey / silvers, what you can expect is - as you've said - a toss of the dice.

The other 'thing' that you might be sensing is that so many people exude the "I want a Husky!" attitude and have no idea what they're getting into.  Some jump on anyone who has a breeding pair and really don't know enough to understand whether the breeder is in it for a buck or for the breed. Personally, from your couple of messages, I don't think you fit that bill.  If your breeder wouldn't mind, would you mind letting us know who they are?
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Starfire
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:10 pm

@aljones wrote:
Jesa, I think we all went the way we did because you ask "My question is what would the pups look like? Would the parti eyes get passed down? Or would the eyes be just blue or brown? Does anything about their genetics make sense or is it just a dice toss?" so we headed that way with our answers.  

We don't mind questions, we don't even mind "*That* isn't what I meant" but you might have to clarify what it is you're looking for if the answers aren't 'right'.  

Sibe genetics is indeed a very odd thing, at least to my mind.  I don't breed, and my only resource in fact is what I've seen here and what I've seen seems to suggest that, other than the grey / silvers, what you can expect is - as you've said - a toss of the dice.

The other 'thing' that you might be sensing is that so many people exude the "I want a Husky!" attitude and have no idea what they're getting into.  Some jump on anyone who has a breeding pair and really don't know enough to understand whether the breeder is in it for a buck or for the breed. Personally, from your couple of messages, I don't think you fit that bill.  If your breeder wouldn't mind, would you mind letting us know who they are?

I understand, I don't think I was very clear in my initial post. I wasn't asking for the sole reason of wanting my puppy to come out exactly how I imagine(my only criteria is that it's a female, but even then if I fall in love with a male puppy then that's life)

I'm just curious for the sake of curiosity. I don't care if my pup has brown eyes, blue eyes, or both! As long as it has eyes and can see out of them, haha.

My breeder has never given me a reason to NOT contact her. I've actually been talking to her for over a week now and initially didn't want a pup from this litter but after she sent more more pictures of the parents I realized that they would be beautiful pups no matter what. I just don't want to bombard her because I know I can come off as "too much" and "annoying" since I always have a million questions racing through my head...

Also, I'm bad at comprehension sometimes so what do you mean "I don't think you fit that bill"
What bill are you referring to?
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:51 pm

Jesa - I think Al is referring to the clueless person who wants a husky because they love the blue eyes or they saw a puppy and thought it was the cutest ever...then get one, are horrified at the "teen years" when puppy destroys everything and is a willful, strong whipper snapper that refuses to do your bidding. And that that person is not you.

Any way - I can understand your reluctance about not contacting the breeder every 2 seconds out of excitement. I am the same way - get so excited and then badger everyone around me...but that's what we are here for.

Maybe you could make a list of your questions through the week and make 1 call to the breeder with your questions? One I would certainly ask, if you haven't already or don't know, is are the parents OFA and CERF certifications and what is the health guarantee. Too many people on here have had pups with numerous health or behavior problems from breeders who did not do "due diligence" as my husband puts it.

Exciting times, getting a brand new puppy. I envy you...at least theoretically. I'm too old to do night time potty duty lol!
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:57 pm

I can appreciate curiosity I've been told that I'm a very curious person (double entendre intended)

When I said I don't think you fit that bill - I don't think you're getting a Husky *only* because they're cute. My impression of you is that you're in it for the long haul - and that's upwards of 12 years! I would like to think that you've selected a good breeder, not someone who just tosses two Huskies together and takes whatever; I would like to think they've done all the exams (hip and eye, for example) so their pups stand a good chance of being free of hereditary defects.

My reading of your messages suggest to me that you're an all around intelligent, caring person - I think you fit that bill.
And being a pedant, the Cambridge dictionary say that when someone uses "fit a bill" they're meaning that they will "be suitable for a particular purpose". In this case, selecting and caring for your pup.
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Starfire
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:05 pm

@amymeme wrote:
Jesa - I think Al is referring to the clueless person who wants a husky because they love the blue eyes or they saw a puppy and thought it was the cutest ever...then get one, are horrified at the "teen years" when puppy destroys everything and is a willful, strong whipper snapper that refuses to do your bidding.  And that that person is not you.

Any way - I can understand your reluctance about not contacting the breeder every 2 seconds out of excitement.  I am the same way - get so excited and then badger everyone around me...but that's what we are here for.  

Maybe you could make a list of your questions through the week and make 1 call to the breeder with your questions?  One I would certainly ask, if you haven't already or don't know, is are the parents OFA and CERF certifications and what is the health guarantee.  Too many people on here have had pups with numerous health or behavior problems from breeders who did not do "due diligence" as my husband puts it.

Exciting times, getting a brand new puppy.  I envy you...at least theoretically.  I'm too old to do night time potty duty lol!

I mean, blue eyes are pretty and such. But if I ever get the strong desire to look at an animal with blue eyes I'll just stare at my boyfriend's cat!(even though I'm allergic)

Brown eyes are just as deep and emotive as blue eyes, I mostly am just here for liking huskies because they are huskies! I didn't like huskies at first. And that was mostly by looking at the surface. I only fell in love with the breed after finding out what they are like as the dog. If the looks didn't sell me the first time around then I don't really care for them still. As long as they're healthy and full of antics!

The breeder I chose does only breed healthy dogs. The females only have a couple of litters and she doesn't have an insane amount of dogs(look up bamahuskies, THAT is an example of a crazy amount of dogs and litters. I know what a bad place looks like)

She also does those certifications which is another criteria I had when looking for a breeder. I swear finding a good place was awful. I felt like I sifted through 10 bad breeders before finding a single good one.
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:05 pm

listen..don't put too much into this whole genetics thing. I think it's all bogus. As you can see from this picture of my Husky's beautiful parents that one is an elegant sable piebald and one is a majestic black and white beauty.


HOWEVER as you can see from this picture of my husky..that I got a mud husky...know one told me about the mud husky...and there is a damned good chance you'll get one too!

Have a happy day all. hehe
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:26 pm

@Michelle Dobson wrote:
listen..don't put too much into this whole genetics thing. I think it's all bogus. As you can see from this picture of my Husky's beautiful parents that one is an elegant sable piebald and one is a majestic black and white beauty.


HOWEVER as you can see from this picture of my husky..that I got a mud husky...know one told me about the mud husky...and there is a damned good chance you'll get one too!

Have a happy day all. hehe



lol! lol! lol! got one of those!
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:40 pm

He's... one question. Does the dad have liver points and thus is a red or black points and possibly a sable? Possibly even an agouti which, if the article I posted is accurate, would change the all red offspring expectation.
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Starfire
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:42 am

@amymeme wrote:
He's... one question.  Does the dad have liver points and thus is a red or black points and possibly a sable?  Possibly even an agouti which, if the article I posted is accurate, would change the all red offspring expectation.
I don't have a clear understanding of those terms. Unless you're referencing ferrets !
I would best describe him as a ginger with cream instead of white. No black.
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:30 am

Liver points just means reddish colored nose, lips, etc. instead of black. Liver colored would mean red to the best of my knowledge, and a reddish coated dog with black points (nose, lips, etc) would be more sable colored, again to the best of my knowledge.
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:45 am

@Artic_Wind wrote:
Liver points just means reddish colored nose, lips, etc. instead of black. Liver colored would mean red to the best of my knowledge, and a reddish coated dog with black points (nose, lips, etc) would be more sable colored, again to the best of my knowledge.

Exactly what I was referencing...
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:04 pm

Leo's mom was black and white with rust on her hocks with brown eyes and his dad was copper and white with blue eyes. he had 3 black and white sisters two with brown eyes with short coat the other one with medium, the other one with bi eyes and black and white. Leo was the only male in the litter and he came our red and white with bi eyes and medium coat.

you'll just have to wait and see. just make sure they are a good breeder.
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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:19 pm

Mishka's mom was a black/white with brown eyes and his dad was a red/white with amber eyes. All pups were black/white with brown eyes. Maybe one with bi-eyes but I only keep in touch with Mishka's sister so no idea on the other pups from the litter after 6 weeks old (pictures).

Siberian genetics are incredibly complicated. There is a pretty awesome Facebook group called "Colors of the Siberian Husky" that has some really good discussions about coat colors, patterns, etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Are husky genetics really this complicated or is it just me?   Wed May 17, 2017 1:08 pm

Saskas mum was grey/white and her dad was black/white.  There was a litter of 8 (6 male/2 female), all black/white or grey/white... bar 2 (including saska) which were red/white with deep sky blue eyes.  Saska's eyes have turned a light bluey/predominantly green colour.  The breeder told us the dad's father was a red/white siberian and all papers/lineage were provided.  Like yourself, I get really curious and interested in the breed (mostly out of excitement).  It could go any way - I reckon you'll likely get a red/white from the description of the parents, but as with my experience, it could be nothing like either.  Good luck with your puppy, either way I know you'll have fun and enjoy him/her! Very Happy
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