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 Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out

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Heather88
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PostSubject: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:47 pm

So recently got s new husky puppy Kiba, who is now 10 weeks old. I already had a Pomeranian/terrier mix at home. Tessa is 8 yrs old and only 7.5#. Now when we brought the puppy home 2 weeks ago she already weighed 11# and obviously growing fast. I know huskies tend to play rough and my terrier does too but I'm a little worried as Kiba will pretty much sit on Tessa and doesn't seem to listen to the change in growl pitch that I can tell means Tessa has had enough. I know I. Have seen people say to let the dogs work it out I just don't want anyone to get seriously hurt as the size difference grows. Kiba is also awfully pushy and will reach in and take toys or bones from Tessa even with the warning "back off" growl she is getting. I'm trying to work on a drop it and leave it command with Kiba but obviously she is still very young and will take time.
So I guess the main question is do I continue to let them sort it out or if it gets really rough and I can tell Tessa needs a break do I split them up? I will see if I can get a video to show them playing but they tend to freeze as soon as you try.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:12 pm

Quote :
So I guess the main question is do I continue to let them sort it out or if it gets really rough and I can tell Tessa needs a break do I split them up?


Well, my response to this is "Yes."  Even at 7.5#, Tessa should be able to tell Kiba that she<?>'s had enough.  It's a funny thing about dogs, even a 2# adult can tell a 25# pup to "Behave, damnit!"

Puppies, almost all puppies want to learn!  and there's no one who's better equipped to do it than an adult dog.  Quite literally, they've been there. somewhere back along their lives, some other dog has shown them how to behave properly in doggy society.

Personally, I wouldn't be too anxious to break them up.  If Kiba keeps ignoring Tessa's warnings it should really be up to Tessa to correct her.  And be prepared for something that sounds like crisis and mayhem ... that's just Tessa being a good step mom.

Now, all that said ... there should never be any blood (okay, maybe a little bit, but nothing serious) from when Tessa corrects her.  I forget where I read it, but a correction is like a parent correcting a child - it's a conversation they need to have for things to work right.  The more interruptions to their "discussion" the longer it's going to take Tessa to get her point across.  Points like "That's my food, get!" or "I'm bushed, go way, leave me be!"

I recently added a 5 yo (adult) to my existing pack of two and for a month I was wondering if these two were ever going to reach a peace.  "That's my spot!", "Forget you, I'm here!" and off they'd go.  I've interrupted a few times when it got to be too chaotic - like they were destroying the house! - but in general, I've let them work it out.


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Heather88
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:27 pm

That's what I was thinking. I'm more afraid of Kiba hurting Tessa when she gets angry about the correction she is getting, plus with those super sharp puppy teeth. I've seen Kiba grab Tessa by the back of the neck and try to shake her and in that position there is not much Tessa can do to get her to stop.
And yet I don't worry about her doing the same thing to our cat! We have an interesting assortment of animals and I want everyone to get along obviously. I know Kiba and the rabbit will never be able to be out in the same room together probably though. Already she is getting way to excited even just seeing him across the room. The other dog is the one that they sort of have to get along since they are together more.
The other thing I worry about is I don't know how well socialized Tessa actually is. She has always done better with bigger dogs than dogs her own size but have never really had the need to bring her to the dog park or anything. She otherwise is mostly indifferent to other dogs she meets but has initiated play with our cat and with Kiba some. I got Tessa at a year and a half old from a vet clinic I was working at after someone wanted to put her down because they couldn't get her housebroken. She had a bladder infection and has been perfectly housebroken since!
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:28 pm

Okay picking up Tessa and shaking her isn't real play and this is one of the times where you *should* intrude.  It's play in that it's a learning process for her - but it's learning to catch / kill.  

I was really hoping that Tessa could put her in her place but if she's being the object of "capture", whether it's play or not, then she needs some help with Kiba.  A real sharp "No!" should get her attention so Kiba let's her be should be enough until she gets the idea that Tessa isn't a toy.

Blasted dogs - - - never do what they're supposed to or what you expect.

Edited twice now to straighten out dogs names, think it's right now ...

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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:41 pm

Shaking can break the neck/spine of the animal being shaken, it's how coyotes do much of their killing.
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jmscott
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:47 pm

You want to keep an eye on this. Siberians can exhibit prey drive with other dogs and I have seen many dogs sent back to breeders because of this. If this is the case, find a good behavior based trainer to help you teach your pup a solid leave it. Never let the little one stay alone with the Sibe puppy.
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Kmanweiss
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:09 am

Some behavior training would likely be a good idea at this point. It sounds like the husky is taking to a level that the other dog can't handle.
Always supervise their interactions, so you can stop Kiba when he crosses the line. One thing you could try is separating Kiba to another area when this happens. This way he may learn that he can play and have fun, but certain reactions will result in far less fun and a separation from his pack.

I know my new husky pup is a pretty aggressive little guy, but my older dog keeps him in line pretty well (her currently has a size advantage though which helps). Once the husky starts playing though, he gets out of control and will stop listening to the older dog's cues and warnings. A short separation is enough to get him to calm down.
After a week of this he learned when he was crossing the line, and he developed a new, more social way to ask for more attention from the older dog.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:50 am

You've gotten some good comments so I won't add anything more.  It's unusual to me that Tessa won't correct Kiba, but then the size difference may allow Kiba to simply ignore the correction.

Good luck and let us know how it works and what works for you, please.

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Heather88
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:08 pm

So here is a video of how they normally play together.

Everyone has great tips and suggestions though. I always supervise and will break it up if Kiba gets Tessa into a spot where she can't offer a correction or if Kiba is not listening to the point of injury. I thought the neck thing looked a little too rough even for a husky. And my terrier can play rough too. They also sometimes each grab an end of a rope toy and pull which is hilarious since Kiba can pretty much pull Tessa already.
Working on leave it- just started training classes tonight. She is very pushy so also working on sitting while I open the door instead of trying to dash right through it and sit while I put her food bowl down and waiting a second. I hope that will help the pushy "hey I want that bone/toy let me just take it out of your mouth" thing we have going.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:55 pm

They play super cute, I imagined Tessa being much tinier! She just has short legs, haha. Ok, with the neck thing...I didn't think of this til I saw my two playing this afternoon but there are two distinct differences in the way huskies can "shake" on the neck. The first is the way I think we all reacted when we read your post and that's the "shake to kill" like something a coyote would do, and then there's the grabbing hold on the fluff of the neck, and tugging in almost a shake like manner which is really just moving their head in back and forth tugs which doesn't even seem to faze a husky...the second is pretty much harmless and I'd think if Tessa would feel pain, she'd let out some kind of squeak or something and in all likelihood , Kiba would back off immediately. Huskies do play a bit rougher than most breeds, so I still think supervision would be wise.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:55 am

Let me "Ditto" about 95% of what Jimmy had to say.  I can't agree completely or he'd get a swelled head.  Watching them play in that video, I'd be much less concerned.  Tessa seems to give as well as she takes and she comes back to the play after she's "walked off"

I think we all jumped on the "pick up and shake" since on the one hand it *is* how many dogs kill their prey. On the other, it is also often seen in Husky play.  My Avalanche (Alaskan Husky) is 30 pounds heavier and a good 4 inches taller than Sky (small Siberian) and will grab her by the scruff of the neck - at which point Sky will either flip over or yelp.  I think that's a call that you're going to have to make, hopefully not as carefully as we thought.  But it is good that you're monitoring their play until Kiba learns to play a little nicer (though in that vid, she's playing *very* nice for a Husky)

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Heather88
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PostSubject: Re: Letting existing dog and new puppy work it out   Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:21 am

Tessa is actually a Pom/Doxie/terrier mix -the Doxie is where her short legs come in Laughing
And yeah we had an awesome night last night and this morning where it seemed that things were clicking for her so much!  We sat at the door to go out to potty and waited for me there instead of running back and going somewhere else, we were playing with Tessa so much nicer (no yelps) and Tessa kept grabbing her lip and hanging there for a second! And we went straight into our kennel and laid down when said it was bedtime! Now if only she could do that last one during the day too we will be golden.
So overall feeling much more positive today -it has been a stressful couple of weeks so far but that is a new puppy and of course double that when your husband has never had a dog before the older already trained one I brought into our marriage.
And also thanks again for the wonderful advice! It is nice to talk things through with people that know and love the husky breed. All my coworkers at the vet clinic thought I was crazy for wanting one based on the normal stereotype that everyone has of them.


Last edited by Heather88 on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to thank everyone)
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