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 May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?

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HuskyLife
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PostSubject: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:48 pm

Hey guys, I'm back!

I've been a longtime lurker who rarely posts unless I have a question! The last husky I was considering purchasing was met with a lot of thankful skepticism about the breeder I was working with, and your help on that was... I really can't put it into words. I'm just so thankful strangers would guide me in the right direction like this.

I've been searching for over a year for the right husky for me, from the right breeder. Browsing facebook for available huskies has been a daily ritual for me for a while now, but to my surprise, I MAY have found exactly what I'm looking for. It's one of those 'too good to be true' scenarios, so I wanted to just post it here to see if you guys see any red flags or have any advice.

I've been looking for a female husky for sale in New England. I would take any lovely pup so long it was from a reputable breeder at this point, but I'm finding the best breeders have very lengthy waitlists, but if you asked me what dog I would have if I could have any in the world, it would be a while female Siberian Husky. That is exactly what I found on facebook today.

Here is the listing: https://www.facebook.com/groups/483377965027240/permalink/1455963294435364/?sale_post_id=1455963294435364

Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. I did my own googling on the seller and I could find much in terms of reviews or history, but you guys who are already in the community surely have a better eye for this stuff than I do.

Thanks again!

UPDATE: I realized the link I added was to a closed group, I attached the listing photo in the below. The place is called Windy Valley Kennels. Thanks.



Last edited by HuskyLife on Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:02 pm

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure the link is working. It takes me to a closed group Facebook page where I have to join the group to browse or comment.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:17 pm

... and since I don't have a FB account, I can't even get as far as Jimmy did. A web site or a name would be a great help ... maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:23 pm

me either...
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:34 pm

UGH! Sorry guys, I didn't realize the listing was from a closed group I joined.

I updated the top post with a photo of the listing. The place is called Windy Valley Kennels in Eden, VT
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:45 pm

'K, I'm not getting anywhere with the name either, haha. A quick search brings up her FB page which is locked (cuz she doesn't use the page anymore (?) ) and I'd have to join her group...so I can't see parents, other huskies in her lines or anything. Her website, I need to fill out a questionnaire type thing to get any idea of what her dogs are like. She has a good business rating but not sure how much that counts for in the big scheme of things, but she also breeds another breed of dog which, if I remember correctly, is somewhat of a red flag. The puppy pics just show me a cute puppy. There is a $200 deposit required which is normal, but personally I don't like that she requires full payment at 6 weeks or your monies are forfeited, I don't know if this is common practice though but I've personally never encountered that. And I see nothing about hip and eye checks.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:59 pm

OK - I joined her fb group. The pups do not appear to be OFA or CERF tested. She did post a chart about juvenile cataracts inheritance. She only gives a 1 yr genetic health guarantee (many issues do not show up until later.) It does not appear that she either shows or works her dogs, she apparently only breeds. Not just Siberian huskies but Boston terriers as well. People seem to like her on her fb page but I don't see much info about the parents. She is offering for adoption a dog that was purchased from her so it seems as though she takes back her dogs if it doesn't work out. Using HuskyMom's dogs as a reference, I would say she is breeding pet quality only. But I can't be certain as there is little info on the parent/breeding stock, no pedigrees, very few pics of parent's and no reference to show achievments.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:10 pm

See, this is why I go to the experts. Hmmm. There is always something scratch

I'm in contact with her now, and she sent me a photo of the parents which I will attach below.


I appreciate you guys raising those concern. Can you help me interpret what those mean, exactly? For instance, what is the concern if she is breeding for pet quality? What is the concern if she is breeding alongside other dogs (and, presumably, on a farm of some kind)?

While I have her on facebook messenger, do you have any advice on questions I should be asking?
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:32 pm

OFA CERF tested? Does she show her dogs or work them on sled teams? Pedigrees? Objective of her breeding program.

Primarily what you should be concerned with is the health and structure of the pups she is producing. Hopefully, she will be breeding to better the breed, to remain within the standard. Pet quality usually means the pups produced do not conform closely to standard, have some faults in conformation that, while should not be bred as they will dilute the breed as a whole, do most times, make fine family pets.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:55 pm

With the hips and eyes not being certified throughout the line, you are taking a gamble that your pup won't develop either hip displacia or juvenile cataracts, both of which are extremely expensive to correct and painful for the dog.

On breeding other breeds. I suppose the premis is that full focus isn't on bettering the one breed. It's also possible, it *has* happened, that having other breeding stock on the property, has resulted in one breed breeding with the other breed, unbeknownst to the breeder, in your case it'd be a Boston Terrier mating a Siberian Husky or vice versa. It may not happen a lot, but it has happened. There are probably other reasons as well and someone else may be better at answering this question better than I did Wink

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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:03 pm

I will relay those questions and anything else you guys suggest over to her. I think I'm second in line at this point, If I can determine if these red flags hold enough weight for me to not call it off.

I'm obviously excited about this, I want it to be the right thing, but I'm trying to use my head instead of my heart. Easier said than done. Any other feedback always helps.

I don't know. I'm torn. Well, I'm not torn about the pup! I'm torn about the situation. Paralysis by analysis, or something. You guys are bringing up excellent points. It's a lot to process, particularly with her wanting an answer soon, as the pup is already 8 weeks old and she needs to find a home for it, it's all moving very fast. Stress!

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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:05 pm

I'm less than impressed.  A good breeder will not only show / run their dogs, they'll have at least something on the net that shows they do - often it's not much of a net presence but something.

Besides two breeds of dogs, Tina also seems to raise horses?  

Personally, while the pup is cute - and all pups are cute, right - I'd tend to stay clear of her.  $850 for an unregisterable pup, with a one year health guarantee (and you have no idea [that I can see] what she'd do if the pup has health problems)

Take a look at KCSiberians who ae generally up in your neck of the woods and compare ...

also Kennedy Sled Dogs and Kryska Siberians are also *generally* up in your part of the country.  I'm not giving them a referral - but when I compare what I can see of them with what I can see of WindyKennels ... they show and tell a lot more about themselves and their dogs.

ETA: just for full disclosure, is used this search to look at breeders in your area. They may ... well, who knows, but just for options.


Last edited by aljones on Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:37 pm

CRAZY! I went on KCSiberians and she also has a white female husky available 4/3. Her website looks great, and based on what limited knowledge I have, everything seems to be on the up and up, but maybe I can ask you guys to take a look at her operation and tell me what you think?

I talked to her briefly and she quoted me at $2500 for the puppy despite her website saying $1500, I asked her why and she said 'good quality white puppies are very hard to find' which doesn't explain to me why her website is different from her email correspondence, but I'm OK with that price point if it's the best option for me. This is a decade+ commitment and the price is nothing but a number to me right now, but I want to get what I'm paying for, too, if that makes sense.

What a whirlwind. I'm excited though. This is good. Thank you so much Aljones for pointing me there! I know that wasn't a recommendation, but if anyone knows anything about them, or could take a look and vouche for her message, or how everything 'looks' that would be greatly appreciated. The only thing giving me pause with her is the price swap.

UPDATE: I found this on google... http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/casey-siberian-huskies/internet/casey-siberian-huskies-kathleen-casey-kathy-casey-this-is-nothing-but-a-backyard-puppy-mi-1201962

Which obviously has me very concerned with KCSiberians. Finding a puppy is hard. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm now going to stay somewhat in the background since I've suggested a couple of kennels and it's time to let others have their comment ... however, a jump in price is tacky, to say the least.  I don't see her listing a price on the website - always, that I've seen, "contact for price."

Quoting an old friend "costly thy habit as thy purse can buy." and if dogs are your habit .... Smile

I do have to say the the head tilt of the one female she has left would get my attention!  Really cute pup (and repeating myself, aren't all puppies cute?)

ETA: While I typically ignore the AKC / UKC / CKC registration 'stuff' KCSiberians is listed on the AKC Web site as a "Breeder of Merit" which is an earned status.
Quote :
Must have history of at least 5 years involvement with AKC events. Must have earned AKC Conformation, Performance or Companion event titles* on a minimum of 4 dogs from AKC litters they bred/co-bred†. Must be a member of an AKC licensed club. ... An AKC Breeder of Merit certificate and lapel pin.

I just spoke with her and I have considerably less qualms than with many other breeders. She's been in the business of breeding and showing for 25 years - if there were much truth to that report I don't think she'd be listed as an AKC Breeder of Merit (others may correct me).
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:33 pm

Her site does look good, just be sure to ask to see these hip and eye clearance documentations.

The price. Wow. I do know that quality whites are hard to come by. I asked the breeder my two came from why she doesn't have whites and she told me it's because of her 8 year health guarantee, quality whites are rare and in order to be able to honor her health guarantee, she doesn't breed whites (or something to that affect). But I also know that reputable breeders don't normally adjust their prices like that. A well bred, healthy puppy is normally in the $800-$1500 range (?) my own breeder had 2 piebalds born recently, which I guess are also extremely rare, and her price stayed the same as for other colors...and I don't think my own breeder ticks every box as far as "reputable" (but...I was comfortable enough to buy from her...and so glad I did Smile ) so I dunno, $2500 seems like a pretty high price.
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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:49 pm

There shouldn't be a a jump in price just because the dog is a certain color.

$2500 sounds more like full breeding / showing rights than what a pet should run.

Only one of her personal dogs is titled. The two males she has listed came to her with their CH titles. From what I can tell only one of her bitches have titles. For someone who claims to show her dogs I would think to see more titles on them.

Have you check the SHCA.org website at all for breeders in your area? They would also be wiling to refer you to someone if you lay out what you are looking for.

There is Snowdancer Kennels also in VT. https://www.facebook.com/Snowdancer-Kennels-375045114424/

Never hurts to contact them and see if they would be willing to give you names of other reputable breeders in the area. Not every breeder is a member of the SHCA but that doesn't mean they aren't breeding healthy, quality dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:07 pm

Thank you for all the advice, guys. I don't want it to seem like I didn't take it, but I ended up going with the first listing I mentioned here. I went to see her set up, to play and meet here, to talk about her health guarantees, and I walked away with a pretty optimistic feeling towards the whole thing.

I went back and picked her up, and she's been wonderful. Yes, there are still risks here (as I quickly found out, there are with any situation) but I'm happy so far. If something happens in the future, that's my fault and my bad.

Thanks again for all the help! I will now be asking for puppy advice, not breeder advice Smile

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PostSubject: Re: May have finally found my pup! But... thoughts on this breeder?    Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:25 pm

Congratulations!!!! Hope to see more pics, we have scrapbooks in here! The scrapbook is great for sharing pics and keeping track of your pup as she grows Smile I go thru mine once in awhile to just look back and I'm always surprised how much they have changed, yet stayed the same sometimes too Smile
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