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 Opinions needed on poop issues

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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Opinions needed on poop issues   Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:38 pm

Ok, so a little background first. Mishka was having recurring UTI's, so in addition to a cranberry supplement, I was advised (not by my vet though) to change her food to one lower in carbs. Solid Gold High Protein is the food I changed too. It didn't make sense to only change Mishka's food, so both Kohdi and Mishka receive the Solid Gold. Since changing, and I did the whole mixing with their former food (Natures Domain Salmon and Sweet a Potato) thing, both dogs have had soft poop, even mushy at times. It's been a couple months now atleast, the second (maybe third) bag is almost empty so before I go get this food again, I thought I'd get your thoughts first. What I've noticed with Mishka, is that her poop starts out normal, and at the very end it gets mushy...tonite it was bordering on diareah. Kohdi just seems to always have soft poop now. Only Mishka gets the cranberry supplement so it really has to be the food. Poop was never an issue with Natures Domain. I, at first, thought maybe it was too rich, so I lessened the amount they got, but at only about a cup a day, really 1 1/4 cup, I don't want to lower it more, nor do I think I should have to add pumpkin to their food everyday just to have normal poop, something isn't right. So what do you guys think? And do you think Mishka would be OK to go back on Natures Domain since she is getting the cranberry supplement now?

Edit to add: Kohdi can eat anything, Mishka seems to have a more sensitive stomach. Chicken seems to bother her. I thought she might be allergic but after reading another post in here about a possible chicken allergy, Mishka doesn't itch, or have trouble breathing or anything like that, she just seems to act different after eating it, like she will fart and things like that. Again though, While Kohdi and Mishka have different tolerances as far as food, both dogs have the soft poop with food being the only common denominator. One more thing that is *interesting*...morning poop seems to be "better" than their afternoon/evening poop, why? I do not know


Last edited by Artic_Wind on Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:54 am

Hi Jimmy, I don't have much experience since Mars is our first dog.  But I'll tell you my eexperience.
I have only changed Mars' food twice.  The first time from TOTW high prairie puppy to adult.  The adult version gave him to much flatulence and soft poops.  The poops were so soft it was troublesome picking them up.  (I think maybe it was to rich?) At that point I switched him all at once to Natures Domain lamb.  He ate that food for about a year.  I switched him all at once-and No more soft poops. Just two months ago I had to switched him once again.  He would not eat Nature Domain anymore or if he did he would vomit soon afterwards. Again I switched all at once, I know a slow transition is recommended but his situations, in my opinion, did not allow for  it.  He is now on Zignature Lamb; he loves it and perfect poops!  I don't remember why you switched food. But if i had two huskies I would want them on same food. But I think that if both Kohdi and Mishka have soft poops it must be the food.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:33 am

Thank you so much Polly! I thought this food might be too rich as well, so I kept lowering the amounts I gave. I really can't go lower than I am now. It's just weird to me that, as far as Mishka goes, her poop is good til it gets to the end (I know it's gross but...) and poor Kohdi hasn't had firm poop since I switched.

I've never had issues with Natures Domain, I fed the salmon one, I only switched cuz the carbs, and with Mishka getting UTI's, it was thought less carbs meant less work for the kidneys and stuff.

I know Mishka's moms new owner from FB, and she feeds Zignature. It's supposed to be as high in carbs (from what I was told (?) ) though than Natures Domain so I don't know if, in my situation, I should go that route. It's no doubt a quality food though and price wise I think it's along the lines of the Solid Gold I'm feeding now. Ugh, I just don't want them having soft poop anymore Sad

Thank you so much Polly Smile I think it's something in the food too
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:46 am

Jimmy, you gave the food a fair chance, most people don't, but typically after 8 weeks if it's not working you know. Maybe a cleaner sourced food, like the Zignature or Acana, they are slightly lower in protein, but are sourced a little better. What I mean is this.....Dogs with no issues do fine on what is called value quality foods, 4 health and nature's domain is that type, they are quality foods but if rebranded they would be considered Diamond value or Taste of the wild value since they are made from the same company, Diamond, but are sourced thru different packing places. I know this because I wanted to samples of 4 health and I would have had to call 4 different plants to get the samples. Acana has some flavors that are lower in protein and fat, but are cleaner sourced. Zignature does as well, on the plus side of both they are higher in fiber so that should clear up the poop issue. I would look for under 30% protein or around 30%, some flavors are slightly higher and some slightly lower, if I remember correctly Mishka is not a fan of chicken so you will have to look at the ingredients, they sometimes sneak chicken in. Yes they are higher in carbs, but thinking that both the Zignature and Acana rely on meat vs meat meals for their first ingredient (example turkey, then list turkey meal) will be a better source of protein, they also do not rely on potatoes or sweet potatoes as their main starch. So yes they are higher carbs than what the Solid Gold is, but they do not use a heavy carb. I hope that makes sense and I hope you can find a happy medium for both Kohdi and Mishka and keep Mishka UTI free. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:11 am

Thank you Renee! I HAVE to get food very soon  so I gotta get this figured out fast, haha. I think I'll give Zignature a try, Polly has had luck with it, with Mars, I know Mishka's mom eats it too, and yeah, I do understand it with the carbs, it's kinda like how a plant based protein is different than a meat based protein. now I just gotta find the right recipe best for Mishka. I looked at them and chose whitefish but the fiber is pretty low, duck has less protein...I'll figure it out though. Kohdi won't be a problem, just gotta get his poop back to normal. At times it's been "messy" so it's pretty important I change this. Interestingly enough, I looked up the fiber on Natures Domain and it's even lower than the Solid Gold I'm feeding now, so that part I don't really get. Anyways, thanks again Renee!
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:25 am

An intolerance to some food in my mind doesn't necessarily mean an allergy. Kinda like having IBS. Some things flair it up because the insides are already wonky but people with IBS aren't always allergic to what gives them a flair up. It just irritates and already irritated system more than other foods. She might be okay with some chicken, but not a lot of chicken so you would want it farther down in the list.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:21 pm

Jenn, one of the first ingredients in the Solid Gold High Protein is chicken fat, and had Kohdi not had the soft poop too, I would have thought it was the chicken fat in the food.

This food is 38% protein, that seems high (yes, I realize high protein is in the name, haha) I'm wondering if the soft poop is cuz there is too much protein for them. They're kinda lazy!
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:42 pm

Jimmy, it doesn't surprise me on the protein. Miya does great at the 32% protein, Sofie doesn't, she gets the soft poop too. So her protein is 25-27% and she is fine. Si I would think that is the case with your two. I also don't think it has too much to do with activity, Sofie is a spaz, hahaha. Sadly in the case with the Solid Gold, I suspect too high protein with too high fat(I think it is higher fat than most also) with not enough fiber to counteract the protein/fat.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:54 pm

Oh wow, I didn't realize that with the fat...and I've been feeding them less, but their weight seems to stay the same, no wonder!
Even though I looked at the nutrition information, that 38% protein never really clicked in my head, til last nite when looking at the other foods. My poor dogs Sad there have been days where Kohdi looked like his butt exploded. It probably did! I guess I'm adding pumpkin til the change is made.

Thanks so much for the information! I wish I had asked sooner, now.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:17 pm

Jimmy, KCals plays a role too. I think ND salmon was probably around 350 per cup, where Solid Gold is around 100 KCals more, so yes indeed you would be feeding less. But some dogs just don't do well on certain ratios. Honestly and for some reason I have yet to see, it truly takes 6-12 weeks to see a physical change in what we feed. An elimination diet for example a vet will tell the client to wait it out a minimum of 6-8 weeks, it is a sloooow process. So even if you had asked a month ago I probably would have suggested waiting it out a tad longer just to see if their bodies would adjust to it. I would certainly not beat myself up on it tho, 8 weeks or 2-3 bags I personally think is an appropriate amount of time to see if a certain food works or not.Most people do 1 bag or 3-4 weeks and that truly is not a long enough time to see if it will make a difference. BTW, your Dane's friend, have them look up EPI in dogs and see if the symptoms are what the Dane has. One symptom is not able to gain or maintain weight. If so apecific tests need to be ran that are over looked in general tests.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:01 pm

I just texted my friend Renee. Her Dane was tested twice for it, $222 each time and she apparently, definitely doesn't have it. I can better explain when I'm not on my phone but her Dane became very very sick last year, I don't remember exactly what it's called but her body was actually attacking itself and causing her kidneys to start to fail. So basically, her treatment is some kind of medication that lowers her immune system, I think whatever is happening now, has to do with this treatment she is on, but the vets can't figure it out. Thank you for looking into it! My friend is in tears just thinking about it, this dog is her life, like mine are to me and I'm sure urs are to you. It's stressful Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Oh how sad. I think you posted pics of the Dane in your scrapbooks before. It was worth me asking. It is a semi common issue with gsd's so that is why I know something about it. I like to know the health issues of the breeds, so I had looked at EPI before, just so I was aware of the issue. Sending positive vibes to you, Mishka, Kohdi and your friend and the Dane. Hope all get well super soon. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:23 pm

Renee, I have it partially wrong, that's why I don't like posting from work very much, my brain is on a hundred million different things...here is an accurate account of what is going on with the Dane (her name is Pip and she just turned 8 years old. She was Malukhai and Anuschka's best friend, as well as Kohdi and Mishka's, so it saddens me that she is not well Sad ) so here goes...

Pip was diagnosed with chronic active hepatitis-an immune mediated disease in which the body attacks it's own liver. She will take Denamarin for the rest of her life (it's milk thistle)to promote healthy liver cell growth. She was taking Ursodiol to prevent cirrhosis and gallstones (gall bladder problem can negatively impact the liver). Cyclosporine is an immunosuppressant that she is on, it's goal is for the immune system to work less efficiently, thereby allowing the body to stop attacking itself.

**ok, so to me, her issue lies somewhere in all that...I think somewhere along the line, either in her treatment or her original problem, something is screwing up. Her average weight before all this was 90 something pounds, now she is in the 70 something pound range. She DOES have an appetite, she does eat a lot, but she's restricted from basically everything except the food she is eating. She has energy, and even tried to get Kohdi to play with her the other night inside my friends house...however, it was Kohdi's first time in the house so he was too busy snooping around and trying to get sips of my friends wine she had sitting there. But my friends face lit up when she saw Pip's enthusiasm in wanting to play. She goes to the vet weekly, this last visit she had only lost one pound, however she is starting to have diareah again which concerns my friend, but I think between her strict diet, the meds, the hot temps we were having the past few days, that it could have contributed to the diareah, but I'm no vet, so all my speculating is just...speculation Wink

Thank you for your well wishes Renee, I really appreciate them and all your help. Now it's on to get Kohdi and Mishka pooping normally again Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:21 pm

Ok, so I have another question. I went to dogfoodadvisor and found Zignature food is plant based protein, much like Natures Domain. So am I really doing good by my dogs in getting Zignature? Or should I look for another food?
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:51 am

Yep Jimmy that is correct. Unless you go with one of the high protein foods, which isn't working, or go to 2 out of the 3 lines of Acana, or Orijen, the great majority of all kibble will be plant based protein. You could do raw, premix raw, freeze dried, air dried or dehydrated, but I assume you would like to stick to kibble The Zignature is plant based, but they exclude potatoes and sweet potatoes and rely on peas and other vegies. Off the top of my head Acana and Orijen would be my picks of meat based kibble vs plant. If you know of another kibble that interests you I can certainly take a look for you. I have scanned probably 3 times every food Chewy offers, not because I would for sure buy thru them, but because they offer a huge selection. For Sofie I have to avoid Flax Seed and anything Chicken, then I go to DFA and see their review if something interests me. I am on look out #4 and have made it to the N's, lol, for me I would prefer a meat based kibble as well, just seems better to feed, but also need to stay at a lower protein %, so I have been struggling, so I know your struggle. It is so so hard to feed something that your pups will eat, not totally break the bank, and make sure it is within the parameters of what I see is healthy. I know that the Acana Heritage line is close in price to the Zignature, it is a meat based kibble, they do offer a fish flavor in that line. So maybe something you may want to look at? Again if you find another brand that you want to ask about please do, I certainly do not mind looking at food, helps me too Smile Ask as many questions as you need.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:29 am

I looked at some of the Acana last night. I actually looked at LOTS of food since I came home yesterday and thru the night, haha. It's a daunting task. Either I was finding too much chicken was in it or it was things like the fat/carb/protein levels were at, or near, the Solid Gold I'm having issues with now OR it just seemed to me that it's ingredients weren't really any better (to the untrained eye anyways) than the Natures Domain (which often looked better and better to me compared to some of the stuff out there, haha) I did find a 5 star, meat based food...but it's $95 a bag, which MIGHT be more doable if I had one dog, but with two...ugh, I just can't. I even learned Solid Gold, which all this time I thought was coming right from my own city, is actually manufactured by Diamond as well! And Dr. Tims has a food that is advertised as great for dogs with sensitive stomachs/to meats and poultry, but has like 2 or 3 chicken ingredients. I was getting an overview of the food from Chewy's, then going to dogfoodadvisor to see how it all breaks down. And I'm no closer to finding a food! They just all look the same in one way or another. My thing with Zignature is this...it's plant based, like Natures Domain, it's carb level is like 47% versus ND 50% , the protein/fat/fiber ratios are almost identical so like, why pay double for half the amount of food when they are so very very close to being the same?!

Kohdi and Mishka's food will be gone today, so unless I find something, I'll have to get a small bag of something to tie me over to when I find something I like.

Thanks so much Renee.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:20 pm

If it were me I would go with the Acana wild atlantic flavor and give it a try. It's a great food that sources good quality proteins. That cuts out the chicken you were concerned about and gets you a well balanced food that is low carb without being crazy protein. Since you are down to nothing in your original bag though it may not matter what you swap to since you don't have any food to do a proper transition with, so if it doesn't go well the first few days don't blame it on the food. Be sure to give it its time to settle in her system before making a judgement call on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:21 pm

Interesting on Diamond making Solid Gold, guess they manufacture half the kibble out there anymore....Diamond, Solid Gold, 4 health, TOTW, Nature's Domain. Wouldn't be surprised if the also make Authority, which I think is Petsmarts food. Diamond sure does produce a lot of common kibble.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:39 pm

@Jenn...with the Acana, I liked the fresh water fish formula better than the Wild Atlantic...it's protein is at 29 and Atlantic is at 33 which is still a bit higher than I'd like. Everything else, nutrition wise, was about identical if I remember right. The duck and Pear looked good to me but it's protein is at 27 and that's a bit lower than I'd like. And yes, their food is gone but I plan on buying a small bag of solid gold for the transition. My urgency has more to do with not wanting to buy a big bag, at $65 when I know they don't do well on it. I've had dogs long enough to know that I can't blame food immediately if a change wasn't "proper" ( I don't necessarily believe in the proper way of changing food though, to be honest. In the past with previous dogs, food was changed on a whim, not often, very seldom in fact, but a change never was done by mixing old and new foods and they were always fine) Anyways, with this solid gold, I knew from day one something wasn't right about it, and each time it ran out I was going to change it...but I never did cuz I wanted to give it that extra bit of time just in case. It was a messy situation at times, but I kept at it, so yes, I will give any new food a proper chance.

@Renne...a lot of things surprised me about Solid Gold, being manufactured by Diamond was only one thing, haha. I REALLY wish I had investigated it further before I changed food on Kohdi and Mishka. Solid Golds cost is right up there with some of the better foods at $65 for only 22lbs, and yet while the better foods average 4 stars and above, a Solid Gold is at 3.5. (I couldn't find a star rating on my specific formula though) Diamond has been behind them for atleast a little while, solid gold had a recall on one of their foods in 2012 and Diamond was already with them then. I really thought I was doing good by Kohdi and Mishka getting this "natural" food for them Sad

Edit to update: I just came back from the store, I bought them the Acana Freshwater food. Wish me luck! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:45 am

Good luck!  Hope they do well on Acana. This subject has really gotten me thinking about Mars' food (meat-based and plant-based). I honestly didn't know there was such a thing.  Embarassed  I am so glad I'm a member of This blog.  There are very knowledgable individuals here on different topics.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:28 am

Thank you Polly, and thank you for your posts too!

Just to ease your mind, Zignature is a very good food. It's highly rated and like Renee said, it's better sourced than most other foods. My main reason for not going the Zignature route is Mishka. Her sensitivity to certain things (which may or may not be all in my head) but also her recurring UTI's and how sick she got earlier this year. I probably over reacted but I really was worried about her. If not for her, they'd be getting Zignature right now (or even natures domain since that's what they were on) because all my huskies did very well on that food, being plant based protein and all. That being said, Acana isn't more expensive than Zignature, it's a neat based food which I do think is good for our dogs, and the ingredients are sooooo much easier to read and understand, lol. I think it's worth looking into atleast! I paid $58 for the Acana Freshwater Fish...the Atlantic Fish is more expensive by about $10 and with my two, I really don't think they need that much protein (it's 33% compared to the one I got at 29%) but there's other formulas too! I just like the fish type formulas cuz...it's for a husky, lol. I could totally see Mishka snatching a fish from a stream, hahaha. And then Kohdi stomping on one til he could grab it Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:42 am

So funny you mentioned fish and huskies, lol, Me and the girls were on our own tonight for dinner and I made salmon patties. Sofie is allergic to chicken in kibble so I do feed TOTW Pacific Stream, Miya eats it but doesn't care for it. Anyways, I had a half can of salmon left so topped the girls food off, and Miya wouldn't eat it and Sofie devoured it, hahahahahahaha. You got an incredible deal on the Acana, everybody and their brother says chewy is the cheapest and they sell it for $64. If it makes you feel any better, the Solid Gold high protein line is 4 and 4.5 star foods, it is not a 3.5 star food. And the Diamond recall of 2012 also included the food you were feeding Nature's Domain, like I said it is very, very tough to avoid Diamond products. The recall by the way that has made so many people paranoid over Diamond products was for salmonella, something that "could" affect weakened immune humans and dogs, but overall healthy people and dogs would not be affected. If anyone reading this gets Netflix I highly recommend watching Pet Fooled, it will open your eyes to the pet food industry. Most I knew, little was a surprise for me, but after over 4 years of studying dog food, I am always and constantly looking, researching, and knowing recalls, etc, constantly vigilant, my 2 are extremely difficult to feed, so I feel for anyone who struggles as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:44 am

Oh and Good Luck Jimmy, I really hope the Acana works out better for Mishka and Kohdi. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:06 am

It was $64 with tax, Renee Smile so chewy is right on target. I'm just glad I didn't have to wait for it and could find a store here that sells it, AND it's only 5 minutes from where I live! Store is called Kahoots.

It DOES make me feel better that the high protein Solid Gold ranks so high...bummed it didn't rank high with Kohdi and Mishka, but atleast I was giving them something better than what I thought. Thank you for that! Smile

And thank you! You were extremely helpful to me so I'm confident this food will work out.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:30 pm

Ok, so an update since I changed their food to Acana. I don't know what to do now. I actually bought a bag of Natures Domain yesterday because at the moment, I don't see a reason not to go back to it. Kohdi and Mishka are just about to finish their second bag of Acana, while on Acana I've noticed several things. First, they always seem hungry! Like they're not getting enough food! I mentioned this first cuz it makes no sense for the second issue they have, they are pooping too much. They will poop, they are firm and we formed, then like 20 minutes later , poop again, like hefty amounts, and it's super soft /mushy. This isn't random, its a consistent daily pattern. So I guess my question now, before I open the bag of Natures Domain, is...do I leave them on Acana or go back to the food they've been eating for years? Only reason I changed was Mishka's uti's and wanting a food with lower carbs, but she is on Cranadin for a supplement so I don't really foresee having UTI issues anymore but ugh, I hate to keep messing with their system trying to find a better food.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   

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Opinions needed on poop issues

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