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 Opinions needed on poop issues

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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:54 pm

Amy...and Jenn too, I'm not discounting other possibilities than their food, I do have reasons for being fairly certain the foods are the culprit, but as usual, I'm at work and can't go into explaining it all (unfortunately that means typing book long posts when I get home Wink ) but for now I will say that, to me, the symptoms keep going back to appearing like the amount is too much and that is what is frustrating me. I will also say that this issue is consistent, daily, no good days, no days that are worse, almost like this is the new "normal" for them. I'll post better when I get home, and promise not to write a book, lol, but Amy, pool water is out...Kohdi doesn't go near the water except to look at his reflection. Probly doing the "mirror, mirror, on the wall thing, haha, and I've kept Nishka from getting near the water to drink since her gastreontitis episode.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:17 pm

Ok, Amy/Jenn, I'm home now. I hope I can type this to make sense.

First, Kohdi, and I think Mishka, had normal poop before I took them off ND. Mishka's may have been soft still from her antibiotic regimen, but for some reason, I don't think it was, I think it was normal (my mind is a bit jumbled so I can't say it with certainty) pretty much immediately after taking them off ND, and starting Solid Gold, poop issues started coming up, and worsened with time to just explosive pooping. Now, if it were just Mishka, I probably would have thought up atleast twenty good reasons it was happening, but I can't do that with Kohdi. He had zero issues with poop, til then. That is the point I started this thread. Up til then, I was getting advice, from Renee, through pm's. At my request. Thru conversation, me sending copies of all Mishka's lab work, she suggested getting Mishka off ND and on a lower carb quality food. She gave me a couple choices, I gave her a few of my own picks to evaluate, all were still high in carbs, so one of the foods suggested by her, was Solid Gold. I gave the food plenty of time, as you can see at the beginning of this thread, but poop was just getting worse and worse, and it was determined that the Solid Gold may just be too high in protein and too low in fiber. This is the point I think, that I came to all of you, in choosing a new food. Acana was the choice I ended up making. *Almost* immediately, I saw poop getting slightly better, each day it got firmer, BUT I noticed firm was followed by mush. Ok, so I wrote that off as " just having to adjust and needing more time" one bag came and went, got another, I'd see good poop, and either in the same pooping, being followed by mush, or a short while later. I didn't like it, but I just kept thinking more time and they'll be ok. Bag two is just about finished, and it occurred to me, their poop never changes, it's good followed by mush. And this is where I'm at now. And why I pretty much know it's the food. My initial thought was, well, it's like they are being fed too much of it! But, they are not. Since both dogs poops are exactly the same, and Kohdi, for sure, had normal poop up til the original food change, and only Mishka is on cranberry supplement, food is the only common denominator, that would fit in as the consistent (daily) condition of their poop. It's as if it's the new norm for them. There has not been one day, since taking them off ND, that either one of them as had a day of normal poop. So whatever is causing it, is consistent enough that nothing changes for the better or the worse. Only food, in my opinion, can be suspected. About the only other thing I could think of, and being not far off from your suggestion, Amy, is their water. Maybe something in it has changed. I havnt tried anything different with it yet, I want to make one change at a time so I know which one it is that needs fixing.

I want them to stay on Acana. I'll mix ND with it for awhile, I'm thinking 70/30, 30 being ND, and see if there is improvement.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:23 am

Jimmy, if what you're looking for is solid poop, you might want to consider the bone meal. Jen, wpskier had a good post on here about maybe 3 years ago on how to add to food. I think staring with a tsp and working up to a tbls but can't remember. I'd search for you but I'm on my tablet and is pia.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:28 am

I couldn't find anything about Jen giving a breakdown on bone meal but I did see a lot of times that Megan (mbarnard0429) mentioned it. Of course now I can't find the thread where she actually says amounts but remember it was around a teaspoon and that's all. Different bone meal brands though have different feeding amounts so if you try that you will need to just read the bag. It will say how much to give for its specific formula. She was feeding KAL brand which apparently has a higher ratio per spoon than some other brands.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:23 pm

I'll look for Megan's thread tonite. Thank you Amy and Jenn. It's my opinion that if the food is proper, the dog shouldn't have mushy poop (?). Adding bone meal would be similar to adding pumpkin, no? Maybe the bone meal has some added health benefits? I'll read up on it. Thank you both again Smile

So day before yesterday I started mixing ND into the Acana, not a lot, maybe 30%, last nite on our walk, Kohdi pooped. It definitely wasnt as mushy. Would the change I made show up that fast though? Although the ending part of the poop wasnt as firm as the first that came out of him, it was formed and not messy to pick up.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:53 pm

Average 6 hours digestion end to end in dogs.

I've read all the advice, hoopla etc and Jimmy...to be honest, if your pups were doing well on the ND - good energy, good eyes, energy, coat etc, then I say go for it. Personally, I think there's a wide range of what is good and not so good and if you're dogs are doing well on a particular food, you should not have to feel guilty about feeding it. I also don't buy the carbohydrate UTI thing UNLESS you're dog is diabetic then sugar can spill into the urine and create a nutrient rich environment for bacteria to grow. THe big thing is lots and lots of water to flush out the urinary tract to remove any bacteria that may accumulate. From my reading the vast majority of UTI's, particularly in females, results from fecal contamination during elimination. Mishka's vulval variation may well contribute to that.

Just for kicks and giggles: Y'all know that I tried the American Journey due to first time offer and its cheaper. And that Mr. Ami loves to eat and is more interested in volume then nutritional adequacy. The American Journey has something like 436 calories per cup. The TOTW that I was feeding had 376 calories/cup. So I thought I'd cut with the Wegmans Nature at 318 calories/cup. Now...you guys can do the math...Yup. Ta dah!!! Might as well just feed the TOTW Rolling Eyes Though, for the summer, when Ami tends to be a slug, I just might do the Wegman's Nature exclusively.

However - as Jimmy, yesterday I had to pick up poop before mowing and, yes, it was formed. BUt a lot softer than on TOTW. And sticky!!! I missed one and had to clean it out of the tractor tires Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions needed on poop issues   Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:37 am

Thank you Amy, I really appreciate this post specifically. It's logical and I don't think anyone can even dispute it. I think, often times people look at the scientific (for lack of a better word) aspect of things, and common sense and logic get kind of lost in the process. Nothing about Nature's Domain caused Mishka's UTI's. Changing her food was unnecessary and could have potentially even caused more issues. Fortunately for me, that didn't happen. In a article Renee posted, a key point raised was that if a vet found crystals in a dogs urine and suggests a diet change, that person would be well advised to find a new vet. I should have never let myself be talked into changing (wasn't by my vet, haha) however, some good did come out of it so I'm not going to beat myself up over it. This will be a long winded post so bear with me.

One of the good things that came out of it, is realizing that I do want to stay with the Acana, but I will have zero issues with mixing it with Natures Domain, if it will continue to help them. Had this thread just ended back on page 2, when I suggested I wanted to do that, this thread would have ended much better than it did. Instead, I got caught up in something of such little significance in the big scheme of things, instead of ignoring it like I did back in April when it was first brought up.  THAT part,  I take full responsibility for. But back to the good that came out of this whole ordeal! The recipe of Acana that I chose, I think is the best combination of everything that would benefit Mishka. I would elaborate on that, but this post will be long enough already Wink Besides that, I just feel better about both my dogs eating it. However, the poop thing has to be cleared up. For more reasons than one. Mishka's UTI issue, is more than likely the result of a recessed vulva. This problem will usually correct itself in a dog after her first heat. Mishka was spayed before her first heat, so only surgery would correct it. So it *may* be an issue for...?. As you stated, and it is fact, fecal matter contamination is a higher risk in a dog with a recessed vulva. So the poop thing needs to be cleared up, it can be messy. Not only in the clean up part, but also it can end up in traces on her coat back there, so an infection risk is definitely higher unless I can get the poop settled down. Bone meal, as you suggested earlier, or simply just mixing the ND in, in small portions, can help me there. It's working so far btw, Mishka's poop was PERFECT today. Kohdi's, still a bit soft at the end, but better than before, for sure. I will also be keeping Mishka on the cranberry supplement. Cranberry supplements do not cure existing infections. They do, however, mechanically prevent bacteria from adhering to the tissues that line the bladder and urinary tract, though. So I have no problem giving her a supplement like this. For as long as it takes. Anyways, as far as wanting to stay on Acana. As I said, my dogs did very well on ND, even though it was stated here in posts that foods like ND, are foods a husky will not do well on, I find fault with that statement. I had a husky that lived to be 17 years old, many of those years were being fed ND. A malamute that lived to be 16 years old, and fed most of those years, ND. It can be argued the recipe has changed from back then to now, I would agree with that. By how much? I do not know. It was enough to lower its rating on dogfoodadvisor from 4 stars back when I had my last two huskies, Anuschka and Malukhai, to now where it's at 3.5 stars. This is one of the reasons I'd like to stay with the Acana. Foods from companies like Diamond, where the market is geared towards the customer who wants a better than average food, but can't or doesn't want to pay a small fortune for it, are more than likely to change formulas, without any notice really (I suppose you could keep up with it online by asking the company about it, not sure on that) to keep that price point that will keep that customer buying it's foods. The average customer, like me, lol, probably wouldn't notice these changes, and attribute any changes in their dog (weight gain for example) to aging, or lack of exercise, etc. instead of things like the food that they think is exactly the same as always, but isn't. While it probly happens in other lines like Acana too, I personally just don't think it'd happen as often/make that much if a difference. I just think it will be a food I can trust for the life of my two, to stay up there on quality, whereas the lines of Diamond (others too, I'm not bashing diamond) can't adjust much more quality wise, without becoming a lower grade. Basically, I think ND is good now, has been good for my dogs in the past, but with things like a drop in rating, make me wonder how much longer it will be good . Things I didn't think about before Mishka's UTI and subsequent food changes. I can go on and on, so I'll stop with this, but this is really the reason I appreciate your post so much Amy, because if I can't get the poop thing taken care of,shortly,  I will go back to ND, and I won't feel bad about it, and most importantly, I don't think Mishka will suffer from it, and anyone else reading this, should be able to feel the same way about whatever situation they are in. It's not always about what looks good on paper/in print. It's about what works for you/your dog.
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