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 Is there hope?

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huskygolucky
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PostSubject: Is there hope?   Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Hi everyone! On Saturday we picked our new baby up (it's now Wednesday where I live). I'm an ace at rambling so I'll cut to the chase: admittedly we didn't let him and our other 2 small dogs get used to each other long enough before introducing them, he was aggressive with them (posturing, growling- though in his defence my Pug comes across as very in your face and dominant), got into a fight with one of them because he wouldn't back down or submit to our older entire male (the Pug), and growled/snarled at our other family member's dogs.

He is 8 weeks in 2 days. We've had a behaviourist come over and within an hour she pretty much told us he is abnormal, had no bite inhibition or respect for authority from elder (and entire!) dogs, possibly something neurologically wrong with him, and that he needs to be re-homed while he's still cute and preferably to a home without other dogs or pets. Our verdict: no way! We committed to him when we bought him home. We've put him on a training lead and stopped all mounting/dominant growly behaviour and we've already seen improvement in him already since the behaviourist's visit on Monday.

This is them as I am typing this:



I think a mixture of training (he's booked in for puppy preschool and I will have another trainer work with me) and time will do the trick. I did wonder why he was so aggressive though, he was fine when we last saw him at 5 weeks old. I found out last night from a woman who bought his brother, that the dad was allowed to roam freely amongst the puppies, and snapped at them on numerous occasions, biting one of the puppies too. The lady said the breeder told her it was their puppy that was bitten, but given our new pup's behaviour, I'm thinking it may have been him (they look similar). Either way, is there hope for us to recondition him with other dogs/our dogs or is there a chance he may forget what happened to him over time being here with us instead? I think he thinks he will get attacked or beaten up so goes in for the first bite/to scream at them in doggy language, "I CAN FIGHT BACK, DON'T TRY ME!!!" -note- he's totally fine with our dogs and they can now happily sit or lie next to each other as long as they don't play or as long as there isn't anything exciting/overstimulating happening, otherwise he starts to get a bit snappy.

There's a local husky group which are excited to meet us and vice versa when he's fully vaccinated, so I'm thinking until then, I will tire him out by himself in the garden, then let him be with my other 2 dogs when and only if he's "calm" that way no fights can escalate... then with the other huskies he can go wild! But I want him to know that my small dogs means CALMNESS. It will be better when he's fully vaccinated as I can give him a proper big walk! sunny

One last thing... or two last things Shocked

I am going to desex my Pug and the new puppy ASAP. My Pug was happily entire until now but another (albeit younger) entire male -our new pup- is not setting him up for success, hence my decision to desex him now. The behaviourist told me that if I'm going to desex one however, I should leave the other entire so there's a naturally more dominant one. I don't want to do that but now I'm worried desexing them both will have a worse effect in terms of behaviour and their relationship then keeping them both entire or having one entire, one not. What's your opinions on this?

He does not know how to play properly! My dogs + family dogs have tried to engage him, play bowing, play attacking, etc. and he takes it so unbelievably seriously. That or he kind of engages but goes from play to serious in a matter of seconds, or just has no idea what to do and just starts mounting/growling at everyone. How do I teach him how to play bow? how to engage playfully and properly? I was hoping my two would teach him but they're quite "clique"y in the sense as soon as he tries to join in they stop. And they clearly don't like that he's rough so snap at him and he snaps back Sad

Looks like I rambled Laughing sorry. Any advice/encouragement with the situation would be very much appreciated. thanks! tongue
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:41 pm

I'll be short and sweet - you've got a really good looking puppy (and Pug) there - - - and you're expecting entirely too much out of both of them for just a couple of days at home.

Your trainer is a dip!  You've brought a new puppy into a home with an existing dog and you both seem to think that everyone's going to be smiley, happy - that will happen in time, but not if you keep changing things.  Leave your pug intact for the time being, desex him later if you want - but for right now, you need to establish a simple baseline and desexing him/both will not help.  If anything, you'll be limiting play between them since you have to have two relaxed dogs as they heal.

His "play", as you describe it can come from two entirely different causes.  The first is that Huskies PLAY ROUGH.  It's not uncommon to folks who have never had / been around Huskies to see their play as an attack.  If there's no major blood - a minor nip as someone moves when someone else grabs isn't too uncommon as they learn - then I wouldn't worry too much about them.  The dominance issues you present are, again, play to determine where he fits into the pack (of dogs and humans).  Your use of a house leash is good and I like it 'cause you can terminate boisterous behaviour without getting nipped yourself.

If you correct him when he gets way out of line and your pug corrects him then he'll figure out where he belongs within a couple of weeks or so.  If things haven't calmed down in a couple of weeks then come back and ask again ...
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Agree completely with Al. And, if, after a few weeks. he still hasn't settled in, I suggest you look at my Blazze thread. My foster was 6 years old and a real problem...things much better now, though I still keep in muzzled out of his crate.

http://www.itsahuskything.com/t16630-blazze-becomes-z-ev-follow-his-journey-from-death-row-to-member-of-the-family?highlight=blazze
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huskygolucky
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:54 am

Hi thanks for your replies Amy & Al! For the first time since their fight I just let them run around together and decided to wait and see how they would play before telling Zuko (new puppy) off. I was floating around them but it all went pretty smoothy... the biggest factor being, I was CALM Shocked I'm pretty prone to panicking or stressing but I know how tremendously it can aid or unnerve dogs so I decided to muster all my will and remained calm. And guess what?! Nothing bad happened. There was no fight, no attack.

After watching dozens of videos on Youtube this morning, I was amazed to see things almost in a new light. I watched Zuko being a little too excitable, Rupert (my Pug) mouthing back a bit before being a little more stern and Zuko turning his entire body around and sticking his bum into Rupert every time he was told off. So different to the face-to-face no backing down approach I saw them both in on Sunday (when my energy was off the radar stressed and expecting something disastrous)...

I've also come to the realisation (especially after reading your thread, Amy... wow, by the way! You have such patience and calmness- please teach me!) that just because Zuko is growling doesn't mean he's about to attack or spin off into level 10 aggression mode. I knew huskies were vocal but I thought just singing and chatting Embarassed didn't realise it was perfectly normal for huskies to growl and snarl whilst they were playing, there was me thinking World War 3 was about to happen and thanks to my energy, it totally did with their first fight. But no, this time I was chill, and I put some confidence in Rupert that he could sort it out if necessary and tell Zuko off himself. Feeling pretty stoked but a long way to go till I'm going to be confident having Zuko off the training leash or letting them play a little more freely Smile
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:41 am

I have to agree with Al, that behaviorist you found was a moron. But frankly so was your breeder. Leaving a male to roam the pups can very easily turn into a blood bath and they could have had many pups injured or killed. That being said, everything will be fine. Getting everyone fixed when appropriate age should/may calm some things down. Mostly peeing. The puppy isn't old enough to be sexually anything so him being intact isn't causing anything with your pug right now. Your pup is just a typical puppy that is going to be stubborn like any husky, play rough like any husky, and will probably throw tantrums like any husky. Puppy class will probably do you the most good of anything and continuing being calm at home and redirecting or correcting behavior you don't like.

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th1921
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:02 pm

I have to agree with all the other commenters....give it a few weeks! When we brought Cain home we really thought Suka (2 year old female) was going to kill him. It was actually really scary and stressful for the first few weeks. We watched them constantly and slowly allowed Suka to get to know the puppy. They are now the best of friends! Be patient and good luck!!
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:26 pm

I feel you. Our older dog didn't accept our husky puppy first. It takes a month (!!!) to she to accept her. Watch few weeks, its always hard to dogs to understand why someone comes to their territory. You should have took your dogs to a random place and then show puppy to them. Then they could accept puppy better. But still is your dogs are pretty aggressive about their territory or jealous (like our) that wouldn't help. We did like that and it didn't help very well. Our older dog isn't aggresive, but she didn't let our puppy to eat, play with toys and be with us. She is so jealous.
And our puppy didn't like that other dogs come close to her. It's pretty normal. But i think everything is going to be alright.
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huskygolucky
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:10 am

Thank you everyone! Zuko becomes a different dog each and every day. He's really settling in and I'm excited to see how he progresses. Very Happy
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:13 am

I've had several different breeds of dogs over my lifetime and while all of them are smart, I don't think I've found a breed that is as intelligent and thinks as much as the Husky's do. Give him just a little leeway and you'll swear he's out-thinking you!

For all their individual quirks and breed traits they're really a wonderful dog to have around!
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huskygolucky
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PostSubject: Re: Is there hope?   Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:40 am

@aljones wrote:
I've had several different breeds of dogs over my lifetime and while all of them are smart, I don't think I've found a breed that is as intelligent and thinks as much as the Husky's do.  Give him just a little leeway and you'll swear he's out-thinking you!

For all their individual quirks and breed traits they're really a wonderful dog to have around!

Oh totally! It's amazing how much he just sits back and watches. He knows sit without even being taught it, just from watching my two!
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