I figured that if I'm giving CM and MoNS a thread, now would be a good time for another point of view, too.

...again, I'll be back.

Love positive reinforcement and Victoria Stillwell. Having experimented with Stillwell and Milan's training methods both, I have better results with positive reinforcement training.

Positive reinforcement fits my gentler personality better too. I'm generally a passive person so it just works better for a person like myself really.

I am also of the mind that one should not just teach a dog what it shouldn't do (often what I see with the CM style), but rather do both correct them when they do wrong but also encourage them when they do right.

CM's style just doesn't seem like something that everyone can physically do, while VS's style is something that the average person can easily and SAFELY handle. Just my two cents.

I lean towards both positive reinforcement and letting Adobo and Biko know that I'm running the show here. Different ways for different things. Behavior discipline in my opinion requires dominance, which doesn't mean having to inflict punishment my tone of voice and ugly face is enough to push most dogs into submission. Training though really goes better with positive reinforcement. Biko for example we just finish a 8 week obedience class with him and he made me flustered as all get out at times but 98% of the time I kept it positive. He scored 96.5 on his final grade. This boy has the potential to be a real gentleman so I looked up Mylo's score when he was a pup, Biko beat him out by point-------> .9 (Mylo had 95.6) Adobo our diva scored 94.0
We start novice classes next week for both, the next step toward hopefully eventually being Canine Good Citizens and then as a therapy dogs.

I've never seen V. Stillwell yet though I seem to always miss her by an hour when she is the telly. Cesar M. though I may practice what he preaches a little bit, I can't stand watching him for more then 30 seconds as he seems soooooooooooooo phony.

Not only does all this work make them better dogs it makes me a better owner.

Val, I think you and I are totally eye-to-eye on this.

Overall, my goals with positive training is to keep my dog happy and out of trouble, focused on appropriate things, doing behaviors that are good for him and his well being, and that don't harm him or jeopardize our relationship/bond. Above all, I strive to be compassionate, humane, kind, and truly CARING for all the beings within my family.

My ongoing list of resources that support this philosophy are:
* Dr. Sophia Yin's website, especially her sections on Leadership without Force and A Better Way. She also has a blog and section of fantastic resources.
* Pat Miller, especially The Power of Positive Dog Training book. She also has a website, blog, and list of articles.
* The Whole Dog Journal - I am a subscriber and LOVE LOVE LOVE it. They have a weekly "tip of the week" email you can sign up for for free. They also have a shop called Dogwise that has a lots of books, e-books and articles. Most everything there is good, with a few exceptions, Ceaser Millan and The Monks of New Skete. See the other thread on this forum for my reasons.
* Dr. Patricia McConnell has numerous books, audio books, and a website.
* Jean Donaldson is another really great positive reinforcement trainer with a couple of books , including Mine!: A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding, Fight: A Practical Guide to the Treatment of Dog-dog Aggression, and Culture Clash.
* The Denver Dumb Friends League has an excellent list of resources for helping to solve canine misbehavior, too.
* Victoria Stilwell's television show It's Me or the Dog is very good. She also has a website, Positively.com, which has great forums, a few podcasts, a blog (with some posts by really good guests) as well as a newsletter. You can catch past episodes on Animal Planet, and occasionally on Hulu.com.
* I am a proponent of Nothing in Life is Free, too. I'm still sorting through a bajillion links to good explanations of this method, but Google is your friend, and it really works wonders in terms of building confidence, manners, and trust with your dog.

From a WDJ Email:
Why We're Positive About Positive Training Methods

We've come so far since those dark days just over a decade ago when virtually all dog training was accomplished through the use of force and compulsion. We know those days well; we were quite skilled at giving collar corrections with choke chains and attained several high-scoring obedience titles with our dogs using those methods.

Trainers, behaviorists, and dog owners are realizing that this is more than just a philosophical difference, or a conflict between an ethic that says we should be nice to animals versus a more utilitarian approach to training. While both methods can produce well-trained dogs, the end result is also significantly different. With positive training, the goal is to develop a dog who thinks and works cooperatively with his human as part of a team, rather than a dog who simply obeys commands.

One criticism of positive training is that the dogs are spoiled and out of control because, while the dogs are highly reinforced for doing good stuff, no one ever tells them what not to do. "Dogs," the critics say, "must know there are consequences for inappropriate behaviors."

We don't disagree with this statement. Positive does not mean permissive. We just have different ideas about the necessary nature of the negative consequence. When one is needed, positive trainers are most likely to use "negative punishment" (taking away a good thing), rather than "positive punishment" (the application of a bad thing). As an adjunct to that, we counsel the generous use of management to prevent the dog from practicing (and getting rewarded for) undesirable behaviors.

The result? Since all living things repeat behaviors that are rewarding, and those behaviors that aren't rewarded extinguish (go away), the combination of negative punishment and management creates a well-trained dog at least as easily as harsh or painful corrections and without the very real potential for relationship damage that is created by the use of physical punishment.

One of the most significant reasons for not using physical punishment or force with dogs is the potential for eliciting or exacerbating aggressive behaviors from them.

The most rewarding and exciting part of training for us is watching the dawning awareness on a dog's face that he controls the consequences of his behavior, and that he can elicit good stuff from his trainer by offering certain behaviors. We never, ever, experienced that in the "old days." We used to take "sit" for granted, because if the dog didn't sit when we asked, we made him do it.

Today, we never get over the thrill of that moment when the dog understands, for the first time, that he can make the clicker "Click!" (and receive a treat) simply by choosing to sit. It keeps training eternally fresh and exciting."