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 Detoxify and Supplement

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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Join date : 2012-12-15

PostSubject: Detoxify and Supplement    Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:44 pm

Hello,

I am looking for supplement for my 8 yr old husky. Any suggestions on this would be appreciate.

1: Before put him on supplement routine, should I start with detox for him? How long would it take? 4 weeks programme or longer?

1.1: How to safely detox a dog? What would be a good aid to use as I first thought was Milk Thistle but some members advice to use it with care as it has blood thinning effect.

2: Reading from previous posts, Nupro and Wholistic Pet Organic are mentioned the most, however it is quite difficult to obtain in the UK. Is there any other good brands that can buy in the UK?

2.1: Wholistic Pet Organic are using human grade, organic ingredients, can I use supplement for human to feed my husky with smaller price tag?

Thank you again.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:32 pm

First question would be...what ate you trying to accomplish with supplements?
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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:06 pm

Hello @amymeme Thank you for your reply.

I am greedy for my husky wellbeing, I pretty want everything for my 8 yr old. Holistic + Joint + Fur + Skin + Eye + Gut if there is something that exist, otherwise I want something Holistic + Coats/ Joint Especially he lately has had a Mast Cell tumour toe amputation.

I understand that lifestyle would be the 1st step and supplement would just do a little aid.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:56 pm

A high quality food and a fish oil supplement like Bonnie and Clyde would be where I would start. Good food will clean and brighten your dog's internals just fine. Adding a probiotic like Greek yogurt helps also. The fish oil will help skin and coat and joints. Give that for a couple months then see if there are any other seasons that can be improved upon. There is such a thing as over supplementing. It's best to stay simple and adjust as things specifically come up.

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:09 pm

Hello @Twisterll, Thank you for your input.

Good News is I have been doing what you have suggested Smile What would you reckon for the feeding frequency? Currently is every other 1 - 2 days for fish oil; bi-weekly for Greek yogurt; sometimes use coconut oil
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:45 am

I use fish oil every day that they don't get sardines (I feed mostly a raw diet). Make sure that whichever fish oil that you use either has vitamin E already included (like the bonnie and clyde brand I suggested above) or add it yourself around every other serving. I do yogurt once a week for my pups but you can do it more often if you like. Coconut oil is fairly fatty so I wouldn't give it with the frequency of fish oil. I mostly use it to treat dry skin patches that pop up by rubbing it into the skin.

Since your dog has had history now with tumors you may want to look into low carb food as well if you haven't already done that.

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:26 pm

@Twisterll I wish I could offer him raw diet, he was on raw diet awhile ago but for some reasons we can't do it on a regular base, so now he is back to kibble and it would be easier to put him on low crab diet. In his early age, he was on Orijien or Acana however it seems little be too rich for him. He farts a lots with those. Recently I found this German brand Markus-Mühle NaturNah and I am new to low crab diet theory. Some websites say, as long as the crab is below 5% of meals that is ok, while some advices the source of the carb is more important, like crab from veggies and fruit. I am not sure about this. If I may ask you to lookup is the below pet food fit the low crab diet? As I found something suspicious like banana, thermally treated whole grain rice, thermally treated whole grain maize, rice germs on the ingredient list.

Markus Mühle NaturNah is a delicious dry dog food made with carefully selected, natural ingredients which are cold-pressed to retain all their vital nutrients. This high quality, complete dog food was developed by nutritional specialists and provides your dog with plenty of energy and a healthy, balanced diet.
The high quality, natural ingredients in Markus Mühle NaturNah dog food are finely ground for improved blending and cold pressing.


  • Poultry, game, fish & eggs provide high quality proteins of human consumption quality.


  • With naturally bound fibre for a healthy digestion.


  • Cold water pressing process preserves the vital nutrients.


  • Chunky kibble for a satisfying chewing experience.


  • Free from difficult to digest vegetable by-products such as bran, peelings, soya extracts or wheat gluten etc.


  • GMO free.


  • No chemical colourings, aromas or preservatives.


  • No inorganic minerals such as calcium carbonate or feeding lime.



Markus Mühle has always done things a bit differently. Their nutritional specialists have developed exclusive pet foods which are based on the natural diet of your pet. Their most recent innovation is Acticell Fruit Power to promote healthy cells. This unique, natural combination of a variety of fruits rich in secondary phyto-chemicals has an antioxidant effect which traps free radicals and counteracts ageing at a cellular level.

Acticell supports the digestion, optimises nutrient absorption and strengthens the immune system. Experts have used ten different kinds of fruit including pineapple, apple, mango and blueberries, to develop a unique and exclusively natural combination of vital nutrients. The resulting fruit mix is a healthy boost for the cells and provides your dog with all the natural vitamins and secondary phytochemicals it needs for an optimal nutrition:


  • Acerola cherries are full of vitamin C which strengthens the immune system.


  • Apples are known for their high pectin content, an important fibre needed to maintain digestive health.


  • Bananas are great all-rounders with a high potassium content and important vitamins, carbohydrates and fibre which help to produce enzymes and energy as well as helping to keep nerves and muscles healthy.


  • Pears also support a healthy digestion and are known for their high mineral content.


  • Raspberries contain important biotin, indispensable for healthy skin, coat and claws.


  • Blueberries are packed full of phenolic acids, flavonoids and other secondary phytochemicals which are especially important for healthy blood vessels and eye sight.


  • Carob pods are rich in flavonoids, gallic acid and glycosides which contain important antioxidant properties and have a beneficial effect on the digestive system.


  • Mangos contain secondary phytochemicals which support the body's defence mechanisms and have a positive effect on coat pigmentation.


  • Papayas are tropical nutrient powerhouses full of important enzymes, especially papain, which aids the digestion of protein. Papayas help to keep the digestive system healthy.



Dogs have developed over thousands of years and in the wild dogs would feed on a variety of prey, eating every part of the animal, including the bones as well as feeding on berries, herbs, fish and insects. Their natural diet provided them with all the nutrients they needed to stay healthy and thrive. We tend to forget this all too often. The best diet for dogs is in fact still small animals of prey - but that's not all that easy to arrange nowadays.

Markus Mühle NaturNah is a unique, complete dog food which is based on the ideas of a well-known vet, dog breeders and the director of a dog kennel. They wanted a dog food which is in keeping with a dog's natural diet in the wild. The result is Markus Mühle NaturNah Dog Food.

The nutritional studies show that Markus Mühle NaturNah is rich in minerals and that it provides a balanced proportion of amino acids which is vital for dogs and the ideal basis of a healthy diet. Markus-Mühle NaturNah Dog Food is made by a family-run business near the River Rhine in Germany. It uses a careful cold water pressing process and the chunky kibble also aids dental care while satisfying your dog's natural chewing instincts. This unique dog food does not contain beef, pork, preservatives, chemical colours, vegetable protein extracts, artificial flavourings or aromas, genetically modified ingredients or inorganic minerals.

Please note:
Since no chemical colours, preservatives, flavourings or genetically modified ingredients are used in the production of Markus Mühle dog food it can only be stored for up to 6 months after the listed production date.

Composition
Dried poultry meat meal 28%, thermally pre-treated maize, thermally pre-treated brown rice, game tripe meal 8%, rice germ, game bone meal 5%, maize germ, Jerusalem artichoke, marine fishmeal 5%, BetaVulgaris, cold-pressed linseed oil, cold-pressed rapeseed oil, powdered egg yolk 2%, dried moor, powdered fruit 2% (carob, pineapple, papaya, banana, acerola cherry, apple, pear, blueberry, mango, raspberry), dried mixed herbs, salmon oil, powdered marine algae, powdered dried Yucca Schidigera.  

Nutritional additives per kg
Vitamins, provitamins and similarly effective substances:
Vitamin A 10,500 IU, vitamin D3 1,050 IU, vitamin E as all rac-alpha-tocopheryl acetate 200mg, vitamin B1 as thiamine mononitrate 3.5mg, vitamin B2 as riboflavin 7mg, vitamin B6 as pyridoxine HCI 4.2mg, vitamin B12 42µg, biotin as D-(+)-biotin 210µg, folic acid 0.35mg, niacin 21mg, vitamin C as L-ascorbic acid 140mg, pantothenic acid as calcium pantothenate 7mg, choline chloride 1,050mg

Trace elements:
Manganese as manganese (II) oxide 48mg, copper as copper (II) oxide 10mg, zinc as zinc oxide 65.0mg, iodine as calcium iodate 1.6mg  

Analytical Constituents
Crude protein 25%, crude fats 10.5%, crude fibre 3.3%, crude ash 7%, calcium 1.3%, phosphorus 1.0%, sodium 0.39%, magnesium 0.18%, potassium 0.69%, iron/kg 200mg
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:55 pm

This food seems extremely low in fat for most huskies. I believe the carb % for this is................. 100 - 25protein, -10.5 fat, -3.3 fibre, -7 for ash = 54.2% carbs, and that is very, very high. What other types of food is available to you? Sadly I am not and most of us are not as familiar with foods in the UK. I'll go look up some other foods that I have heard of later this evening and see if they are low in carbs. I agree with Jenn that carbs make an older dogs system run harder.
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Grizzly&Charcoal
Teenager
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Join date : 2012-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:49 pm

Hello @MiyasMomma I never aware that food is that bad after you pointed out as Markus Mühle has been reviewed by many user and particular the aforesaid website. I thought it was quite a good brand even we show to one of our vet, he reckons it is a good food. Now, I believe he gains weight and not so much farting possibly gains the "benefits" from high amount of carbohydrate and low protein.

Thank you for showing me how to read the labels again, it helps me to understand closer of what I am feeding him.

If according to the allaboutdogfood.co.uk analyse, Acana possibly the most well reckon brands with the highest score. For Acana there are 2 options that I am thinking about. ADULT LARGE BREED and Acana SENIOR DOG

Apart from Acana Taste of The Wild possibly a USA brand that can be obtain in the UK with a reasonably price tag

What would reckon Taste of The Wild? I enclose Acana Adult Large Breed Dry Dog Food and Acana Senior Dry Dog Food details for your reference. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you for your attention in advice Smile


Acana Adult Large Breed Dry Dog Food
Ingredients:
Fresh chicken without bones (13%), dried chicken (12%), dried turkey (11%), red lentils, whole, green peas (8%), field beans, fresh chicken offal (liver, heart, kidneys) (4%), dried Atlantic herring (4%), fresh whole eggs (4%), fresh whole flounder (4%), herring oil (3%), chicken fat (3 %), sun-ripened alfalfa, green lentils, whole, yellow peas, pea fiber, fresh chicken cartilage (2%), brown seaweed, fresh pumpkin, fresh garden gourd, fresh parsnips, fresh cabbage, fresh spinach, fresh brown mustard, fresh oilseed rape petals, fresh carrots, fresh "Red Delicious" apples, fresh "Bartlett" pears, freeze-dried chicken liver, freeze-dried turkey liver, fresh whole cranberries, fresh whole blueberries, chicory roots, turmeric, milk thistle, large thistle roots, lavender flowers, real mallow root, rose hips.

Additives:
Nutritional additives:

E6 [zinc] (100 mg/kg), Enterococcus faecium NCIMB10415 (600x10^6 CFU).

Analytical constituents

protein 31.0 %
fat 15.0 %
fibre 6.0 %
ash 7.0 %
carbohydrates 29.0 %
calcium 1.4 %
phosphorus 1.1 %
chondroitin 900.0 mg
moisture 12.0 %
aminoglucose 1500.0 mg
linoleic acid 2.2 %
omega-3 fats 1.2 %
omega-6 fats 2.4 %
calories that can be burned 3458.0 kcal
DHA fatty acid 0.35 mg

Acana Senior Dry Dog Food
Ingredients:
Fresh boneless chicken (16%), dried chicken meat (15%), dried turkey meat (14%), red lentils, whole green peas, fresh chicken offal (liver, heart, kidneys) (4%), dried Atlantic herring (4%), pea fibres, fresh whole eggs (4%), fresh whole flounder (4%), herring oil (2%), sun-ripened alfalfa (2%), field beans (2%), green lentils, whole yellow peas, chicken fat (1%), fresh chicken cartilage (1%), brown seaweed, fresh squash, fresh marrow, fresh parsnips, fresh cabbage, fresh spinach, fresh brown mustard, fresh rapeseed leaves, fresh carrots, fresh “Red Delicious” apples, fresh “Bartlett” pears, freeze-dried chicken liver, freeze-dried turkey liver, fresh whole cranberries, fresh whole blueberries, chicory roots, tumeric, milk thistle, large burdock roots, lavender blossom, real mallow roots, rosehips.

Additives (per kg):
Nutritional additives:
E6 [zinc] (100mg), Enterococcus faecium.
Technological additives:
Vitamin E (preservative).

Analytical constituents

protein 33.0 %
fat 14.0 %
fibre 5.0 %
ash 7.5 %
calcium 1.6 %
phosphorus 1.1 %
chondroitin 900.0 mg/kg
aminoglucose 1500.0 mg/kg
omega-3 fats 0.7 %
omega-6 fats 2.5 %
calories that can be burned 3458.0 kcal/kg
DHA fatty acid 0.3 mg
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:07 am

Both the Acana's are low carb at around 29%. I did make one small mistake in my giving you carb %, I forgot moisture, which in most kibble is 10-12% so 54.2 -moisture (we'll average) 11 = 43.2% carb which is still high. Currently there are very few kibbles that are under 30% carb. Eden has 2 lines that are low carb, Eden 80/20 line and the Eden working dog food. Their Ash content is a tad higher than American counter parts, if no issues with urinary health this is a good choice if in your budget. Akela offers a raw option that fits it all, low carb, low ash etc. the numbers will appear low to you, but raw is figured out a little different than kibble, and I personally believe fresh food, even carbs is better than kibble high in carbs. Akela 80/20 is low carb, again a little high in Ash, recommended at around 7% just so you know base line for ash. If you see any other ones let me know and I can look for you. It is a daunting task indeed. I also recommend addition of water too the diet, animals in general do not drink enough water, adding liquids by adding warm water to kibble and let soak for 15 minutes provides that, also feeding in a supplemental way, raw, certainly doesn't have to be precise, 5 or 6 ounces of raw meat will provide a fresh meat source and raw is loaded with moisture
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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:55 pm

Thank you for the information and it is real helpful. As the current food is running low and lack of time to shop around. I decided to put him on a Acana Senior. Since Acana senior has the second highest protein and lower fat among the brands that we went though. In term of cost per kg brand across Acana, Eden 80/20 and Akela 80/20. Acana offer the best price with the lowest % in Ash.
I can't agree more with you that look up pet food is a daunting task. =)
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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:55 am

Re: Fish Oil

I did not aware that there are types of Fish Oil available on the market until recent discussion.

The further I read on Internet, the more concerns about the safety on Fish Oil consumption.

Some suggests Fish Oil are easy to oxidised and form into a toxin substance and can obtain heavy metal from Ocean. Are they true? Would Fish Oil do more harm than good?

I aware that Bonnie and Clyde Fish Oil is recommended as it has the high amount in DHA 450mg & EPA 725mg and Vitamin E 100IU per 5ml. Since they are not yet put their flag in the UK, I need to find a second best, I would like to ask how much DHA, EPA and Vitamin E does my dog needs to provide health benefit?



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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:49 am

Do you have access to Iceland Pure Sardine and Anchovy? I've seen good reviews on it. If not and you want to go the capsule route what I've read is look for at least 180 EPA and 120 DHA per capsule and give a capsule per every 10-20 pounds of dog. You will need to supplement vitamin E to your capsules so look for capsules in an IU range that allows you to give at least 200IU a day.

Some extra reading if you wish.

http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth/small-animal/sports-medicine-rehabilitation/Pages/fish-oil-dosing-chart.aspx

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:59 pm

Hello @TwisterII

Thank you for your reply and I enjoy the further readings which are very handy to get to know what are good for them. Like" Vitamin E may be safest when natural forms of mixed tocopherols, including gamma tocopherol, are used." and be alerted with "zinc can be dangerous if given in large quantities or not properly balanced with copper" due to earlier Vet recommend to give him zinc supplement and I thought zinc picolinate would be one of the most bioavailability form. I hope I m not doing something harmful to him.

Re: Fish Oil
Iceland Pure Sardine and Anchovy, I have look up this, regrettably it is not yet in the UK.
However, I found OmegaWild and Omegease. Both have 18% EPA and 12% DHA, human graded but only OmegaWild has added a touch of Vitamin E (natural D-Alpha tocopherol) with 14IU per 5ml.

In this case would you reckon they are more or less the same? To complete the diet to add Vitamin E separately?


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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 pm

Of those two I would probably go with Omega Wild (though vitamin E seems a tad low but would have to do math to verify), but you may be better off just getting the fish oil capsules that are just Omega 3. Dogs get Omega 6 and 9 all the time in the food that they eat. Only 3 is the one that all of us are running low on. Then you have more control over the proportion of oil to vitamin E for the specifics of your dog.

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:34 am

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge @TwisterII

Sorry is me again, many questions to ask. Would you reckon sardines can replace the Omega 3 capsules and that would cover his Zinc and Omega 3?? If so, all I need to find him a good Vitamin E supplement?

I find feeding him raw is much more easier to balance and less chance for him to become a farting machine. Regrettably we can accommodated with large freezer here at the moment.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:35 am

If you are feeding sardines or mackerel, whole fish, canned in only water (no salt added) you won't need the supplement. Both those fish are high in omega 3 and are complete.

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Grizzly&Charcoal
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:34 pm

How about frozen raw sardines? Do I have to worry about the bone? I have read they are soft bone fish and should no worry but some say ain't.

What are you thought?
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Detoxify and Supplement    Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:00 pm

Grizzly, sardines are a great addition to your supplementation and are safe to feed.
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