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 Jealous barking

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Khidd
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Join date : 2018-06-11

PostSubject: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:15 am

I was hoping to get some help with my huskys.

I have two girls, one is 7 years old and one 4. The four year old gets jealous if I pat the other one and will bark and become aggressive at the other dog.

She also will bark if the other one has a toy/stick she decides she wants or if she sits in a spot where she wants to sit.

It is hard to try any positive reinforcement because when I am outside with them it always happens.

Any help would be appreciated.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:11 am

My female is a brat like this sometimes and will bark at one of my males until he gives up and gives her what she wants. To which I promptly take whatever it was away from her and give it back to him. Look at training in the "leave it" command and when she's doing that just tell her to leave it and go lay down. If someone else has it she has to leave it. If it's something I don't want her to have when we are out walking she has to leave it.

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aljones
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Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:29 am

As @TwisterII says training is all important in this type of situation.

I wish I could find the article I read recently that stressed that "discipline is not punishment"  but the short course, as I remember it, is you reward for their learning to do something you want - positive reinforcement.  While discipline is letting them know that they are not doing what you want (or being a typical Husky, doing what they want anyway.)  Discipline may be as simple as "No!" when you see your dog sniffing prior to counter surfing - "You really don't want to do that!" - or removing a dog physically when it's starting to do something you object to, like taking a piss on the kitchen floor and you say "No!" and remove him quickly to his proper place.

Seeing the results from positive reinforcement are things we all look for; but we also need to be prepared to correct (discipline) inappropriate behaviour.  What I see TwisterII doing with her "leave it" is disciplining the dog who's in the act of or apparently considering doing something we don't want.
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Khidd
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:40 pm

I’m finding it hard to use any discipline. My girls are outside dogs and generally if I go out she runs over to me and is no longer doing the behaviour. I don’t want to discipline her for running to me.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:29 pm

Perhaps you could use the sit command and teach wait? That tends to calm a dog down a little, with out it being a "punishment"
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:20 pm

@khidd, we're not connecting here.   You're right, you shouldn't punish your dog for running up to see you when you go outside - that's a natural reaction.  But if you have a bouncy dog (I have one) then it's fair to say that once she reaches you then she needs to sit and wait for you.  Your positive reinforcement comes into play when she gets the attention she's craving.

At 27, I presume you have a job of some sort and you probably get up to go to work - that's discipline.  Doing what you know you need to because that is what is expected of you, it also helps that you receive a reward - your pay.

I really hate the way that English has taken discipline and made it mean punishment when there's a world of difference between the two - a child needs to learn self discipline to get the things that they want (or at least most kids do) if you want your parents adulation then you study hard, get a good night sleep, eat a decent breakfast - that's discipline.  If you, as a child, don't exercise that discipline then you should expect reasonable punishment.  Don't feel like studying, then there's no TV (or gameboy); don't feel like going to be on time then I'll flip the circuit breaker to your room and you can set in the dark ... those are punishments that hopefully fit the offense of not having proper discipline.

No one here would expect you to punish a dog who doesn't know what is expected of him, you have to instill that discipline in him.
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Khidd
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:31 pm

Thanks for clearing it up. I am having trouble installing that discipline. When she runs to me if I ask her to sit she will. But it’s not stoping the jealous behaviour when I’m not with her.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:14 am

My take on your situation is a lot different than everyone else's, I think. I would first ask though, 1. what is your 7 year olds reaction to the 4 year olds jealousy/barking? And 2. Did they grow up together, or is one fairly "new" to the family?

I've had nothing but pairs for my whole life, and yes, there has been the jealousy thing but for the most part, they've handled it on their own. I'll add that mine all grew up together. With the exception of my current two, who are only a year apart, I always had an existing dog with an age of minimum 4 years when the puppy was added after the existing dogs companion had passed away. With that being said, I can somewhat relate to your current situation with my current two. Only times I've "stepped in" so to speak, was when they were much younger, and when one wanted the others stick, so what I'd do is just give the one doing the bothering (usually the youngest) her own stick. Most of the time, id make a game of it by calling her to me and then we would go search for a stick together. When they each had a stick, they were either content, or turned it into a game of taking the others stick. Kohdi is 5 now and Mishka is 4 and they've turned it into a game of "I'm gonna get your stick" which in turn turns into a full on play/wrestle/zoomies/catch me if you can. They handled it. Nowdays, When Mishka has a stick, Kohdi will often pester her, he doesn't really want her stick, he wants the play, but if Mishka's not in the mood, she will make the crinkle nose, lol, and it may take a time or two, or three, of that, and Kohdi stops. It's why I ask, what is your 7 year olds reaction to the 4 year olds pestering?

As far as the attention thing, I do my best to equal out my attention to them. If one is being petted and the other comes up, I pet the other too...I have two arms! Wink if one should get pushy (it may have happened when they were younger, I haven't seen it in a long while, I nudged that dog back, but still petted. They just want their attention and they must grow out of it with time because I remember it with each pair, but it was so short lived I can't remember much about it except that it was always the youngest being the pushy one, and they were very young at the time. Nowdays, they both will greet me and want attention, but one or the other will back off and I give full attention to each, while the other "waits".

I'm not saying anything that's been said in the above posts is wrong or anything, on the contrary, I'm mostly wondering if your 7 year old is just *that* passive or do you normally step in at some point before the 7 year old gets super irritated by the 4 year old instead of letting them get through it on their own.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:18 am

I realized after I'd written my last book that I'd led this topic somewhat astray.

Since these are both adult dogs it's more difficult than if one is a puppy.  In a puppy-adult relationship the adult will put the puppy in its place - a quick snap that says "Behave brat!" will normally convince the puppy to behave.  @artic_wind ask the same type of question in his last paragraph.  I'm wondering what your response to that will be ...

Most dogs will settle these types of disputes between themselves.  In fact, I have somewhat the same situation with two of mine - don't know where it stems from and after 5 years, I've given up trying to figure it out.  Sasha is 'constantly' harassing Sky - if Sky goes outside, then Sasha will be right there when Sky comes back in and Sasha pushes her, sometimes with a non-contact snap (true 'BS') Sky's gotten to the point that she just ignores Sasha until she's had enough and then it looks and sounds like a fight for 15-30 seconds and then it's over for a while.  I've never had significant blood from these 'discussions' - a scrape on Sasha's nose, I think, was the worst.  

Like Jimmie, I normally have pairs of dogs but added Sky when a woman needed to get rid of her.  Not a mistake, but she's not really added anything positive to our pack.
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:23 pm

Sometimes the best solution is to leave it to the dogs. My three adult males have their spats, sound terrible but, no one gets hurt and, one will emerge the winner, Usually Silver. It might be over food, treats, attention, a toy, a stick, the best napping spot, whatever but, they sort it out.

Dogs do naturally have a pack type hierarchy and, they do periodically challenge their place. Stop it and, it isn't settled so, it happens again. Let it go, let them settle it (as long as they aren't drawing blood or injuring one another) and, that's the end of that argument, likely all arguments for a while. 3-6 months later, they do it again. Soon er or later, the hierarchy might change. Halo was lead until this year, Silver earned the right to lead now and Knight challenged him and lost last week. Sooner or later Knight will try for lead again and, might earn it. I let them work it out.

They get no feedback form me either way when they scuffle, I simply let them be dogs - my way of telling them "Not my problem boys, fix it yourselves." They understand that.
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Khidd
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 am

Thanks for the feedback.

How can I tell which of the dogs is the alpha? And should I treat them differently because of this? I have always thought my older one was the alpha but it seems the younger one is constantly challenging her or doesn’t understand the hierarchy.

Without being mean my younger one seems a bit stupid - doesn’t learn from positive or negative reinforcement. More than likely it is because of my lack of training with them.

Thanks again all the feedback is appreciated
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:43 am

When you come home after being gone, which one comes closer to greet you or, greets you first? If you offer a single pile, bowl or large piece of food, which one eats first? Who follows who around the most?

The first one to do something/ one leading the most is your leader. Pet or train that one first, feed that one first, just by long enough for her to get one bite of food before the other can eat. If there are two food choices, a chicken thing and a chicken back for example, the leader gets the better (thigh) food.

Reinforce the hierarchy they have naturally and, you should see the underling calm down and accept her place. She may be confused as to her place since you aren't treating her as the second dog and, so, she is trying to be an equal dog but the leader won't have it.

You aren't being mean by reaffirming what the dogs already decided, you're simply telling them they are right, they did the right thing and, you accept their hierarchy and, want that of them.

Watch for challenges and, a change in the coming years, it will happen eventually and, just go with it, let the leader be the leader.

Remember huskies have a lot of their wild like instincts, more than many other breeds, in a wild pack, the alpha eats first, gets the choice food, the rest eat in order and, get whatever is left, depending on their place in the pack. Younger dogs, coyotes, wolves, hyena's, etc... occasionally challenge and, now and them win the alpha position.

learn to read the dog's body and behavioral language just like they learn to read yours. I'd bet they know when you're getting ready to leave, when you're preparing their food, when you don't feel well, when something new is about to happen just by reading you.

It sounds like your younger one is a bit aloof, not all that concerned with pleasing you. Some dogs are like that, you need to find what motivates them - usually its a special treat or a special play game that they will chase to the ends of the world if they have to in order to have it. Use that to train the young one.

All three of my adult males are aloof. Peanut butter for Halo, rope bone for Silver and, sweet potatoes for Knight. Kaila works well for tug o war, Kong chasing, or popcorn. She's young, we'll see which she settles on as she gets older, looking like it's going to be the popcorn. Whatever works for her - I'll make popcorn every day if it works. LOL.
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Khidd
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:57 am

Thanks for that. I have always fed the older one first coz I assumed she was the alpha. She seems to just be very laid back compared to the young one. The younger one always runs to me first but the other isint far behind.

When they calm down a bit they both listen to basic commands. More so the younger one, the older one will do it if she wants lol
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Jealous barking   Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:29 am

Sounds like the younger dog is the leader, your older dog may simply have a submissive personality and, chose to allow the younger dog to lead. Try treating the young one as alpha, see what happens.

I know, it's an adjustment, my oldest male just lost his alpha status this spring, to one of his pups. The old boy is now the bottom of the four dog hierarchy and, he was alpha for seven years. No more, the younger, more assertive pup (now and adult) took over and, that made the brother to the pup number two. Dad became 3rd, then I got Kaila and, he submitted to her right off, taking the bottom position.

Once Kaila is an adult, she will be co-alpha since she is the only female in a pack of males, all of them will try to earn her favor LOL.
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