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 Desperate to help our beautiful girl

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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:24 pm

Hello. Our pup is 7 months old and has had many digestive issues since we got her. She has been on many medications due to worms and parasites of many kinds. She has been free of medication since early May other than antibiotics for surgery as she was spayed. On June 16 I noticed her stool was becoming softer than usual. It did get worse as a chunky applesauce texture but not diarrhea as she has had before. I contacted the Vet and was told to use some endosorb we had left from a previous issues with diarrhea. It didn't return her stools to normal so the vet prescribed Tylan Powder and Metronidazole. Her stool has become formed but is still very soft. I saw an article that said Husky's can have some zinc deficiency's and I asked the vet who said he has no knowledge of this in his 35 yrs of working but try it. I am waiting for my order but in researching about Husky diets I am wondering if its her food that she is not tolerating. I did request that the Vet do a stool sample and it was negative. The Vet has our pup on prescription diet Hills W/D can food for weight management as its high in fiber and prescription diet Hills I/D dry for sensitive stomach. Our pup is under weight but tolerates the can food as it has made her stool firm in the past when only given it for a few days when she has had issues. I am concerned about her size and weight as she seems so small to me but even worse is that we can't get her to have normal stools for more than a few weeks. I was thinking about changing her food as I read that the best food for a husky are Blue Wilderness, Taste of the Wild, Orijen and Nutro Max natural food. I don't know which I should try or if anyone has any advice on what to do for our little one. The Vet says if we can't get her stools normal we would need a specialist who will have to do blood tests or a biopsy and I am not wanting to have to do that. Any advice would be really appreciated.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:27 pm

If my vet ever told me "Well, I don't know, but try it." I'd be looking for a new vet. Personally it sounds as if your vet doesn't know much about Huskies and they have more than their share of "doggy oddities," it *really* helps to have a Husky knowledgeable vet.

As odd as it may sound, Husky's because of the way they were bred (with the natives in Siberia) have some really odd dietary problems, not all by a long shot but enough.
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:45 pm

I agree, find a new vet. I also can't imagine a high fiber diet or a weight management diet being appropriate for a 7 month old puppy.

Honestly, I'd try something less expensive and not so common ingredients, like Pure Balance Bison, Pea and Venison. Yes, it's the premium Wal Mart brand and, it's pretty good food, especially given the low price and being meat based, grain free.

I started Kaila, now 13 weeks old, on that since she was a rescue and, I couldn't get any of her old food. One day of thick oatmeal consistency poop then, normal even with a rapid diet change. Poor pup at 10 weeks old had already been given 4 doses of Strongid - too much according to my vet who said she was fine other than needing to rebuild a healthy gut.

I gave her all of the kibble she would eat plus 1/3 cup pure pumpkin puree mixed with 1 TBS plain yogurt and, a small drizzle of raw local honey for a week before putting her on the prey model raw diet with a kibble supplement that my other three eat. Just had another fecal done today - perfect.

Shes gained weight, is growing properly, is full of energy, healthy and happy now. A far cry from the little pup that would play for five minutes then sleep for four to five hours when I got her. Now she plays more than sleeps, just a 2 hour mid morning nap and a three hour afternoon nap, and night of course.

The main thing is find another vet that knows huskies and, is better with digestive health.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:37 am

New vet and definitely new food.

I would do a week or two of a bland diet of chicken or turkey mixed with rice with either the pumpkin or yogurt mentioned above and then make the switch to something that is better quality, grain free, more protein, less carbs, higher fat and see if you don't see some improvements. At this point you could be dealing with a bout of colitis from all the meds and the food that has a lot of stuff in it that huskies usually do not do well with. Her insides need some time to calm down.

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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Poor baby.......I agree with the others, new vet, grain free food. I would steer clear of Blue, it is not at all what it used to be. Several lawsuits and recalls and has recently been bought out. Nutro has had their own issues. Orijen is going to be way too rich for this pup. The PB or TOTW, 4 Health if you have a tractor supply or Kirklands grain free if you have a costco would be the ones I would go to. Do as Jenn suggested do a bland diet for a few days get the poop solid then slowly, and I mean slowly transition over to the food you want to feed.

Some other things......most dogs who go with the Tylan and Metro seem to get back to ok, and some don't, main reason is that no probiotics was included. This pup has been on so many meds no wonder she has tummy issues. I would look for a good probiotic. Chewy has several options, often same as what the vet will offer, if they offer probiotics, at a cheaper cost. Yogurt in this case can help, but because of the duration it is not formulated specifically for dogs. I would look for Proviable or Fortiflora, later on you can try others, but those are probably the most recommended out there. I would give a solid month with the probiotics and the switching of the food, before seeking out any other ideas, since often times it does indeed take 4 weeks or more for this type of tummy upset to straighten itself out. With the dog food I would choose a flavor that has fish in it to start out, those lines tend to be a little lower in fiber, too much fiber for some dogs will also create loose poops.

Finally how much does the pup weigh? Can you post pics so we can see the body condition for her? Huskies are medium size breeds, females weigh less, so if she weighs 30 pounds I might not think she is underweight, so pics would help greatly. Zinc is typically a coat issue vs a stomach issue so I don't think currently that is her problem. I think it is all of the meds, worms and the current food fed that is causing these issues, and possibly over feeding, since huskies eat about 25% less than most dog breeds, and far less than bag recommendations. For the most part many huskies do not do well on grain inclusive foods, and require fat for their energy where other breeds require grain for their energy.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:53 pm

Now it's time for her to tell us that her vet is also her husband ... Smile
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:11 pm

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for all your input and advice. I apologize as I did forget to mention that our pup has been on a probiotic ever since we have had her. The initial vet who was recommended to us by the person we received our pup from prescribed Probiable-DC and we switched Vets at the end of March and the provide us Fortiflora powder for her.
I did go to our local Walmart today and was pleased to see that they do carry the Pure Balance brand but didn't have small bags of the Bison, Pea & Venison recipe. I did see a 4lb bag of Salmon & Pea recipe as well as a Grain Free Trout & Lentil Recipe but I didn't know which to choose.

If my pup does have Colitis as I do believe the Vet has mentioned she could have Inflammatory bowel disease or her loose stools could be caused by stress and arise at any time I am not sure how she would get diagnosed or cured for Colitis.

I have done a diet of chicken and white rice when she was 2 or 3 months as the initial vet thought a bland diet would help her stomach but the current vet has not ever mentioned giving her a bland diet. He has only removed her kibble and had us give her the w/d canned food when she had diarrhea and this helped as he said the canned food is high in fiber. I personally am not happy with feeding her canned food that is meant for weight management purposes as she is a puppy and should be given the best food with appropriate calories for a growing dog.
I don't know if she is being overfed but the Vet has recommended that our pup receive 1 can of the prescription hills w/d and 3 cups of the prescription Hill i/d digestive care per day. So she receives 1/2 a can with 1 1/2 cups kibble for breakfast and dinner. Months ago she was getting less food but I had told the Vet that she eats her food very quickly and seems to be still hungry. He said to keep adding food to her bowl until she was done and we tried that once but it seemed we went through the can and I have no idea how many cups of kibble and I was afraid she would become ill from eating too much and too fast so this the amount of food the vet stated to give her. I feel she is not getting enough calories to fill her up which is why she eats so quickly and licks her bowl clean at each feeding.

When she had her surgery to be spayed on May 22 I believe she was 26lbs but she has not been to the vet since so I am not sure how much she weighs now. I had my daughter hold her and weigh herself but I know its not accurate but its the best estimate I can do so I will have her try this again.

I read on Snowdog guru site that In Huskies and Malamutes the progression of illnesses due to chronic Zinc Deficiency may present as follows:

Chronic digestive issues (often mistaken for food allergies), often accompanied by bouts of diarrhea, and lack of appetite (often mistaken for being a picky eater).
My pup is not picky and has eaten any food we have give her but I was wondering if the food she is eating is causing her the digestive issues so I was hoping to see if the zinc would help her. The vet stated that its not a supplement that can be given for months at at a time but it may help so we should try it for a few days.
I am thinking from what I have read in the past few days and from the replies on this forum that our pup does need another type of food which is appropriate for her.
Originally our pup was on Holistic Health Extension chicken and brown rice for puppies but both vets felt that Hills Science Diet would be better for her. Its clear if she has nothing in her stool to explain why she is having oatmeal texture or formed yet very soft stool every day which is not what she has before the 16th of June that it can only be the food she is eating. We have no treats for her as the Vet only wanted her on her canned and kibble food. Prior to the soft stool I had only give her celery, carrots and watermelon to try and she enjoyed them very much but at this point she is only having her dog food and the medicines prescribed by the vet as well as her probiotic.

I am planning to call our vet and inquire about changing her food and see if he's open to this or not. The facility has many forms for Hills Science Diet food bags on shelves in the waiting room and I will be honest as I initially hoped it would be the best thing for our pup as the previous vet provided the same brand but I do wonder if he will be open to something he doesn't sell in house.

I am going to go back to Walmart and get a small bag of the Pure Balance in the Grain Free Trout & Lentils and see if she tolerates it. I realize the worse that can occur is she has diarrhea -- I hope that would be the worse outcome in changing her food.

This vet that we currently see is not of any relation to us. It is a daughter and father group that was recommended to me by a dear friend who has been taking her dogs to them for over 10 years. I do believe they do have the lowest rate in the area for visits but that is not important to me if I can find a vet who has knowledge about huskies and digestive issues. We just want our pup to be healthy and happy.
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:23 pm

I just weighed our pup and it's not as accurate as what the vet can do but it seems she is 33lbs.
I took some pictures of her before we went for a walk. She seems thin to us but I think my kids miss her baby pudge but she does still appear small to me. I have nothing to compare her to so I would appreciate any response on how she looks. Thank you.


Last edited by Momof3&asibe on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:25 pm


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Husky911
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:42 pm

HI Momof3&asibe

If your stool sample is negative, I would definitely try switching food. Diet i think is #1 determinant for how formed or how lose your dog's poop is. Ever since I've had at Echo 8 weeks, it would seem every 3 weeks or so he would have a wicked course of diarrhea. Literally I would be using kidney basins as a makeshift toilet for him when he had bowel movements outside. The last straw was when he had a massive accident inside my house on my carpet after we had just went outside for a potty break. It would seem that after a week of fasting him and switching him to bland diet and his poops returning to normal it would all repeat again in a couple of weeks.

Fast forward 8 months of this and I had enough. I tried everything. From different brands of kibble to pumpkin, to yogurt, to fasting, to bland diets. I decided to go crazy and just fast him for 24 hours and switch him cold turkey to a RAW diet. 12 hours later his poops came out rock solid and I have never looked back since. It has taken almost a year of being on a RAW diet to fully heal his stomach and reverse the damage that kibble did to his GI system. Now he can drink from a puddle on the side of the road or dig in a muddy pit of swamp water and not have massive diarrhea the next day. I'm also slowly reintroducing meats like beef that used to cause him GI upset even on RAW and no problems whatsoever! The sad thing is I spent good money on quality kibble like Orijen.

I personally never went to the vet during any of his episodes of diarrhea. Because he would always get better in about a week, therefore I never really truely suspected worms or parasites. I find western vet medicine is good a symptomatically fixing things, but never really helps get to the bottom of why he had diarrhea in the first place. But if you've already recently tested his poop without issues, I would implore you try either a different brand of kibble or to switch to RAW. I can't tell you the wonderful benefits I've experienced since having him on it.

If you consider RAW, don't hesitate to ask questions about it or how to switch over. I along with some other members here feed a raw diet, some even do a partial raw diet and still supplement with kibble.

Good luck!
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:12 pm

@momof3&asibe -- I really hope the three are less hassle than the sibe is.  You sound like you have a house full of fun and confusion there - emphasis on the 'Fun!'.

You'll find that I often throw out comments like "she's gonna tell us the vet is her husband" just to have a little fun and lighten things up a little.

Now, seriously - I may get some argument but in my opinion Hills Science Diet in any form is rarely the right food for a dog - especially a dog with a problem.  The vets need to make a dollar and by recommending Hills, they do get a buck or two.  If you look at DogFoodAdvisor some of them are rated as 3 & 3.5 while some are unrated since they're weight management or "special diets."

As @husky911 mentions several people here feed raw diets - but with three kids, etc that may be more than you want to get into - it's like cooking a meal for a kid who can't eat greens (bad example, but your get the idea) and then cooking another meal for the rest of the family.  Unless your pup has some serious issues, you'll probably find a decent dry food that she'll eat (hopefully without breaking the bankroll)

As for the pictures, she looks like she could put on a couple of pounds but not a whole lot.  Nice tummy tuck but her ribs looks pretty obvious (and that could be the picture and angle as well)

You mention a lot of things you've done and different vets - and this is not a criticism, we all try to do the best we can - but a lot of the things we do take time, sometimes several days before we start to see the desired effect.  (But who wants a 'loose' puppy for a few weeks, right?)  That's why the first recommendation is to fast the dog, (er, you have a puppy, so I wouldn't do a longish fast) and then switch to the rice and chicken diet which is typically very easy on their stomachs, if that works right you should see solid(er) feces within 72 hours or sooner.  If not she might be allergic to the chicken<??>  a whole other 'ball of wax'.

You mention the "Trout and Lentils" (again, I'm going to refer to Dog food advisor who rate the Pure Balance from 3.5 - 4.5 depending.  The "limited ingredient" and "bison" rated 4.5 so if I had my druthers, I'd go with them for a trial first.  However, trout and lentils, depending on what other ingredients are there should be a good safe bet as well - you're going to want to have her on that diet for a few days, at least, to see if she adapts to it or not.

I'm getting way too long here ... you have a good looking girl there and I wish you the best of luck getting her settled to a workable diet.  (if I referred to her as a him at all in my message, just consider that I'm an old man and my mind slips at times.)

ETA: for those more knowledgeable than I here'the ingredient list for the "Trout and Lentils"
Quote :
Ingredients: Trout, Fish Meal, Lentil Powder, Pea Protein, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Dried Peas, Kelp Meal, Chia Seeds, Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Natural Flavor, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Potassium Chloride, Salt, Dried Brewers Yeast, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Manganese Proteinate, Dried Bacillus Coagulans, L-Carnitine, Copper Proteinate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:48 pm

@husky911 thank you for sharing your experience. I am not sure if doing a RAW diet at this time would work the best for me but of course if it becomes the only option for our little Dakota then I would just do it. My eldest child had many allergies as a preschooler and a few year thereafter. Seemed she began to be allergic to most everything and had a limited diet. Thankfully grew out of it but that makes me think badly of myself that I had not checked what the main ingredients are in the Hills Science Diet food compared to other foods. I was told by our current Vet upon meeting him for the 1st time that his concern with our puppy is her health and anything else such as training is not a topic he will discuss so go to google and find what you can or have your child do it. Honestly thought that odd but if that's what he does then so be it as the 1st Vet and his staff were always willing to discuss any training issues I had. We had changed vets as the current one is much closer to us- not sure if I mentioned that before.
You mention fasting and my concern is that our pup had vomited bile on occasion when she was around 3 or 4 months old. The Vet examined her and found her stomach to be empty even though we were feeding her 3 if not 4 times a day. She had just vomited bile 2 evenings ago just before I was going to get her dinner. I had not seen her do this but realized after that it was a bit more then 12 hours since her last feeding. It's making me wonder if I am not feeding her at the appropriate times. She eats breakfast around 6-6:20AM as sometimes we walk a bit when she awakes in the morning after going potty. I then feed her dinner around 6 so it is about 12 hours. I am just concerned about having her fast and if she will have an upset stomach or will she try to eat more things then she already does when we go outside. The 1st vet would have us change her diet to boiled chicken and white rice for a few days to settle her stomach when she was having diarrhea so I do wonder if I should do that and then introduce a new food slowly increasing portions daily.

@AlJones I apologize for not coming across that your comment of the vet being my husband was in humor to lighten up the conversation. I thought it was rather funny as my husband gets quite an earful from me about what is happening to our pup and how I wish I could say what I am thinking to our current Vet. But the current Vet did come off a bit cold to me but I do really like his daughter but I don't think we can pick who we see and he has more knowledge then she but not when it comes to our puppy apparently.

I agree on the photos I had taken but I was hoping to show that she does still have an indented stomach area and ribs are showing. Her fur is growing in from her surgery but I do think the pictures do reflect exactly what you commented - she can gain some weight. Just not sure if that means I should be feeding her more food but if Hill Science is not being digested well by her I don't see any reason to increase her amount of food. I am bewildered as she was handling it well for about 3 weeks and suddenly she has soft stool the consistency of oatmeal at its worse or clumps but still soft texture. My eldest daughter had the misfortune of taking her for a walk and Dakota didn't have a BM in our yard before going (I try to make her walk to do so in the yard) and my daughter had the most difficult time picking it up with her bag. I forgot to tell her to take some paper towels or napkins as well.

I appreciate you reminding me that all good things do take time. Our 1st vet told me that often as I was calling with an update too soon and not letting the medicine work as I was hoping it would have instant relief for our little girl. I was just hoping in this case that since she has been on the antibiotic medicine since Thursday that there would be some visible relief but she seems to be the same with slight variation in her stool being oatmeal vs. soft clumps. I keep thinking it may take weeks and not necessarily days to get her bowels back to normal. I was going to try to the Zinc supplement but after all the responses I really do think the issue is her food. As another mentioned its a shame to think how much is spent on bags of food or cans of food we have not used. I am planning to donate any unopened bags/cans to our animal shelter but its the latest purchase of the largest kibble that they had that I purchased from the vet as I thought she was finally doing well that is the most disappointing but it is what it is. I keep trying to say to myself everything happens for a reason and for some reason we were blessed with this pup and she brings me so much joy and laughter but as much as she appears to be OK I know she's not and I wish I could cure her tomorrow.

How long would you fast her for? As I mentioned earlier I am concerned about her vomiting bile so I am weary of attempting this. I am not sure if just giving her boiled chicken and plain rice would be sufficient for a few days and not have her fast. Since I am going to try the bland diet of chicken ( I don't think she's allergic to it but not sure how I would know) and white rice I will have time to order the small bag of the 'bison' food. They did have it in larger size but I am weary and would rather spend $10 instead of $50+ in case its not tolerated well by her.

My apologies for my long winded responses. I have so much to say... too much to say as usual. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:23 pm

I'd go with the salmon and pea Pure Balance, peas but, only because I know my dogs like peas better than lentils, or any other legumes for that matter.

I do really like the Bison recipe but, if that one is out of stock, mine get the Salmon instead, no problems going back and forth as needed. Still, even having to go big bag, the Bison is the better formula and, for some dogs, fish is an allergen. Bison and Venison rarely are. Maybe because Huskies are closer to wolves and, those are natural prey for them.

If there is another Wal Mart nearby see if they have the smaller bag, or order it from WalMart.com with 2 day shipping or, in store pick up.

For mine, they ARE wolfdogs so, North American Prey is definitely the meat source they do best on. Fortunately, where we live, each hunter is allowed six deer per season and, there are 2 humans that hunt in this house so, we get a dozen deer every year plus the scraps and trimmings from friends and relatives that hunt and, the local officials bring us fresh road kill when they find them nearby. Add the rabbits I raise for both dog and human food, the garden for the plant mater and, a kibble supplement and, we're good while spending very little to feed the dogs.

Mine do get chicken leg and thigh quarters now and then, 50 cents/pound all day long here but, they need more than just chicken, that's a tasty treat for them is all. They also get catfish and bass and, occasionally a buffalo fish in the summer when we do go fishing fairly often.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:39 pm

I too, have a little girl (she is 4 now though but quite small) that has G.I. Issues even to this day (though not nearly as bad) and I went through the headache of trying to find the right food for her. Even the Acana she is on now, doesn't matter the recipe, will still cause periodic G.I problems. Mishka's issues started with having recurring UTI infections though. Anyways, you brought up something in your reply to Husky911 that I would like to touch upon. You say she is eating a lot from outside, what kind of things is she eating? Because I too have that problem (to a lesser extent than when she was a puppy though) with Mishka. There are many plants, berries, etc. that are either poisonous to animals or at the very least, cause things like G.I problems. Mishka often picked up berries that fell from trees, on our walk, that would make her throw up. She has always liked chewing on plants as well, the latest has been Bougainvilla that I found out causes diareah and throwing up. Recently, I installed new sod for them so they'd have something cool to lay on for the summer. Both my pups munched on the grass and I thought nothing of it, dogs do like to eat grass, however, one week they were both ill with explosive diareah (I mean like bombs exploded on the walls!) and I couldn't figure out why...fast forward a week and Mishka had it again, almost took her to the vet AGAIN for these issues but I didn't because I think I found the culprit. Teeny tiny little mushrooms popping up in the grass (you can barely see them!) so everyday now, I check the grass early in the morning before I leave, rake it, and hope I got any that were there. I'm just saying there is a shocking amount of things outside, that we don't really take notice of, that can cause our dogs distress if eaten. I am NOT saying this is your pups problem, but it may interfere with all the remedies you are attempting to get her back on track. One more thing, the throwing up of yellow bile, my two would both do it on occasion and I posted about it here and got recommendations to feed a light snack before bed, it did work for me so I'd say it's advice worth trying for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:44 pm

You're talking about long winded responses when there are some of us here who don't have any idea how to be brief ...

The idea behind fasting her is to let her body get rid of everything (nasty) that might be in her stomach / bowels.  The chicken & rice is to give her something that should fill her up (the rice) and chicken for nourishment that hopefully won't upset her. Most people seem to change their pups from three feeding a day to two at about a year old. You might want to go for three meals (6:AM / noon / 8:PM or so) and see if that helps the bile problem. (( Actually, most dogs will let you know when you can make the switch 'cause they'll start eating less and / or leaving parts of a meal ))

Back to the pictures for a moment.  That tummy tuck is normal for most dogs and more pronounced in some (Husky's and Greyhounds, for example) than in others.  Hers is not so pronounced as to look like a problem to me.  Sibes are supposed to be sveldt / thin and trim. Since they're a medium sized dog, a lot of people expect them to be quite a bit bigger than they really are.  If you look at this chart I put together a while back. you'll see that she isn't the lightest female in the group.  Yes, she looks like she could put on some weight, but you seriously don't want her to be 'pudgy' since that does bad things to joints over the long run.

I do rescues so most of the dogs I've had have been adult when I got them and never had to 'enjoy' the puppy problems.  Sibes reach their adult size at about a year and her growth plates don't look to have completely closed off (those are the areas above her ankles that look knobby) so she's got some more growing to do.  Between a year and two years she will, I am told, put on more muscle mass.

I had to laugh, we have a mother / son vet team and people have had similar comments about them. Mary is very easy going when she isn't swamped and will take time to talk while her son is all business (which will change I hope) both have better rapport with the dogs than with people!

I'm going to set out for a message or two hoping that others who are more aware of food problems than I am will respond.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:43 am

@ bluemoods - I was thinking if I have her fast and feed her chicken and rice than I would have time to order the smaller bag of the bison and venison but I thank you for sharing that the salmon may be a good one to try from what they did have available. I had heard that salmon may be a favorite of huskies as they would hunt for them in the wild. It seems my pup is not picky at all and has always eaten whatever we have given her. How lucky for your dogs as well as yourself to be living in such a wonderful place to have an abundance of food.

@Arctic_Wind - our pup usually chews on sticks and occasionally eats dry grass as I left the clippings the last few times I cut the grass. You did remind me and how foolish that I had not mentioned it to the Vet but our pup did find an area a few weeks back that had mushrooms which I did research are called dead mans fingers as they are slender and gray in color and emerge from the dead roots of a tree we cut down years ago. I have avoided this area with her because she was constantly finding these mushrooms and I was constantly trying to remove them from her mouth but I have to believe some may have been digested. I will have to share this with the Vet as I did completely forget about this as its been a few weeks since she has been near that area. I don't see any berries in our yard or anywhere that we walk. The only other finding she came upon was a dead bird in the pachysandra and I immediately told her to drop it and she did. I am not sure if her having it in her mouth for a few moments would cause her to have issues with her stomach as that occurred at least a week or so prior to her soft stool issue.

@Aljones Do you know how I would know if she is allergic to Chicken? I believe the last time we had given her table food in a manner of speaking was boiled ground beef and white rice as our 1st vet wasn't sure if she was reacting to the chicken kibble she was initially eating. I will try the chicken and rice again before changing her foods and hope it does help her. I have to say even when she at 3 or 4 meals a day she never left any food in her bowl. She does seem like she could keep eating all day if I would fill her bowl up and that concerns me the most with the food she is on now that it may not be enough for her.
I am glad to hear that the tummy tuck appearance is normal but I do think she could still gain a few more pounds and still be good. Hopefully with a change in food it will occur so she doesn't seem to be too thin in appearance. Thank you for sharing the chart as I am one who would expect her to be much larger as I have referred to her as a large breed dog comparing her to the neighbors labrador and golden retriever but I do realize being female she will be smaller then they are.
I have been asked how big she will get but I have really no idea. I was concerned that she was too small for her age now and with all her gi issues that she may be the runt and stay small so I am relieved to hear that you can tell she has more to grow based on what you see in the photos.

That is funny that you know a mom/son vet duo. I have been told positive things about the duo we go to but I have also been told the dad can be all business as you state and come off a bit harsh but he truly is not that bad. I just am not sure they are the right fit for our pup. I just can only hope I can locate someone who is as I honestly only know of 1 family who own a husky and 2 beagles and they are not very local to us but I can ask who they see but she has told me she has never had the issues that I have had so not sure if her vet is knowledgeable about huskies or GI issues but I can always ask.

I am curious as I was researching the site you had mentioned called DogFoodAdvisor and I noticed the Merrick brand on it. I see it had a high rating and they do have a Grain Free puppy texas beef & sweet potato dry food as well as real buffalo and sweet potato. I recall when we 1st got our pup speaking online with an old friend who gives her dog Merrick brand as he had a sensitive stomach but he is a labradoodle but regardless she said this food worked the best for him. I was just wondering if anyone has used the Merrick brand and what results did they have.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:26 am

If your dog is not having active diarrhea, there is no need to fast.  As Aljones mentioned the fast is only for 24 hours after the initial symptoms of diarrhea, and by diarrhea I mean like waterfall =P.  Soft stools don't count =P.   On a side note...I've only ever fed Echo twice a day ever since he was a puppy at 8 weeks.  He would vomit on occasion before meals (bile with sticks & the occasional squeaker), but nothing serious.  At 7 months, I can assure you a 24 hour fast won't kill or harm your dog.  Just make sure he/she has plenty of access to water and you'll be fine =D.

If you're worried you can switch to a bland diet, but if it's just soft stools, I would probably just add a tablespoon of pure pumpkin into your food and leave it at that.  

In terms of feeding, I just re-read your posts and have you ever considered you're overfeeding your dog? =P.  1 can and 3 cups of food seems excessive.  On top of that you're feeding what is essentially garbage vet food...which I always laugh at.  If you read the ingredients it's quite gross.  But I won't start my rant about vet food.  I've tried it with Echo before...and it smells like SPAM, also garbage =P.  Worked for a bit...then diarrhea...all over again =P.

I would seriously find a 5* rated dog food on dogfoodadvisor, and switch him ASAP, and keep it simple.  No treats, no supplements, just food and maybe some pure pumpkin to bind everything together and let your dog detox.  You might experience worsening poops immediately afterwards, but they should firm up.  

As for your dog's weight/size, I can assure you that once his stomach settles down and he doesn't have constant bouts of diarrhea he will fatten up accordingly.  You also need to keep in mind that you have a growing 7 month puppy.  Skinny and lean is just part of the process.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:51 am

@ Husky 911
Currently our pup Dakota is not having diarrhea. I understand exactly what you are referring to as we have had many moments of the explosive episodes and I have referred to them as waterfalls to my husband and to the Vet. Dakota had been having what I felt were normal formed stools. They were easy to pick up with a shovel to remove from the area as well as clean up if we ventured anywhere with a poop bag. She began to have soft stools on the weekend of June 16 and at times they were the consistency of oatmeal or they have been formed pieces but a very soft texture - not easy to dispose of at all. This led me to believe is ill and even though the vet didn't request a stool sample I insisted and it was negative. They prescribed 2 medicines which are Tylan Powder - a pinch 2x a day in her food and 1/2 tablet of metronidazole 2x a day which I make a small meatball with her wet food for her to take. I do have endosorb pills if she does begin to have diarrhea as that has helped in the past to get her stool firm. And she does take Flortiflora probiotic powder each morning sprinkled on her food.
Thank you for explaining when one should Fast. I had not been told to do this when she has had horrible diarrhea. I had either added pumpkin to her food which did not help or was told to give her a bland diet of chicken and rice but last time she was given a bland diet the Vet recommended boiled beef and rice as he was wondering if she was allergic to chicken. Our current vet has only had me remove her kibble and give her the canned food as he says its high in fiber along with the endosorb pills and that had worked when we tried it a month and half ago. The current Vet has never had me change her to a bland diet. I have to admit I was excited when we found our current vet as I had called a few local places and the woman who answered the phone had told me she had huskies before and her mother still has 2 and that the doctor was currently treating a few huskies that had stomach issues. They asked where we had gotten our husky to see if there was a connection - but there is none. I have never met this woman as she is only part time and there on Saturdays. I really thought we found a place that has knowledge of huskies and their sensitive stomachs. I do know of one family who has a husky and 2 beagles so I am going to ask her what she feeds her dogs or if they eat different foods as well as ask where she takes them to the vet. Only concern is she is lives about 35 minutes or so from us so hopefully her vet is located between us but I am so desperate to get our pup on track that I will travel to the right vet if needed.

I do believe I have some canned pumpkin so I will add it to her meal at dinner and see if that helps or I would think I could just give some to her as a treat. Sadly she rarely gets any other food besides her 2 meals.

I have never thought I was over feeding her. Dakota always seems hungry after she is done eating and licks her bowl clean. She has left it and returned to it to lick it again at times which made me think she really would like more food and is still hungry. When I initially told this current Vet that she eats really quickly. She only takes a few minutes to eat and has always been like this he said to give her more food until she stopped eating. I attempted this once and kept adding more kibble to her bowl and she ate it - added more and she ate it - I believe I added more again and then I decided to stop as she seemed she would keep eating and my fear was she would vomit. The canned food does not provide any feeding guideline but they are large cans and we have been told she should have 1 per day. I did look at the Hills feeding guidelines and it states for a puppy between 4-9 months and at 30lbs to be given 3 1/3 cups of food per day. This is a sensitive stomach brand labeled i/d. I had really not focused on what ingredients are in her food until recently when I began to think it has to be her food that is causing the soft stools. I assumed that since both Vets had prescribed Hills then it must not be so bad. I had never seen nor gone to the 1st Vets office as my husband made the trip the many times our pup needed to go there. I do recall the staff member telling me that we should try a dog food called Fromm but we never made the change as we found out Dakota had worms or some parasite and was given medication so we didn't want to also cause disruption by changing her food too. Not sure if Fromm is a better form of food then Hills but I know as much as I do beat myself up over what I should have done its what I need to do going forward that is important.
Even though the Vet said to try the Zinc supplements I know its not an answer to what is really going on so I shall be returning them as he said if it does help she can't have them daily for months on end.
I was told to call him on Saturday or Monday with an update. I did ask if her stools do not improve with the medications she is on what is the next step. He said we need a specialist who has GI experience and perhaps testing will be needed such as blood work and a biopsy. He called it the million dollar question which I know is his way of saying it will be costly. He has mentioned the specialist before when Dakota had explosive diarrhea and said if we can't get it under control she would need a specialist. This is what made me begin my search the other day for the best husky food and I realized Hills was not listed and that many have either chicken, beef, lamb etc as the 1st ingredient and our dry is brewers rice, whole grain corn and chicken meal and the canned is water, pork liver, whole grain corn. I think the 1st ingredient should be a meat/fish food. I also know that corn is not a good type of a vegetable. Its the only one all my kids will eat (1 does like cooked peas the others do not, 2 will eat fresh peas out of the pod when my mom grows them in her garden, 2 eat raw carrots but all do not like cooked carrots, they all like broccoli) but it in my opinion corn has very little if any nutritional value. I am sad to see its listed in the top 3 ingredients of both foods Dakota is eating.
I am going to call the Vet today rather then wait until Saturday or Monday as I see no change in Dakota's bowels and I am going to tell him that I would like to change her food. Depending on the response I receive I will be either looking for a new Vet or we shall be getting his blessing to try a new food and see how she reacts.

Thank you for assuring me that Dakota is OK as far as weight and size. I do worry as I have been told that huskies are high energy and even though she does like our walks and she gets the occasional zoomies (as we call it) she does seem to rest/sleep a lot. I have nothing to compare her to as she is my 1st and only dog but I expected her to be up and about much more. I think she isn't getting the nutrients she needs from her food and that may be making her sluggish and want to lay down quite a bit but then again I am not sure and this may just be her.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:21 am

Merrick is a good brand. It was bought by Purina but they haven't messed with the formula at all. I've talked to them and verified this. I feed my cat their canned food and another member here has been happy giving their dog their canned food as well. I have one dog that has issues with potatoes so I don't feed potatoes to them.

Allergies can manifest in a few ways. Itching, chewing at feet, ears that get dirty fast, and smells because of excess yeast production, goopy eyes, etc. There is however a difference between an allergy and an intolerance. I have a dog with a true chicken allergy. If he gets cooked chicken he will chew the fur off his back until his skin is bloody. Intolerances show up more in the form of what you are seeing. Diarrhea, stomach upset, not processing food well. Intolerances are more localized to the digestive tract. If you suspect an allergy or intolerance to chicken opt for turkey instead when you are doing the bland diet. Stick to light meat though. Red meats like beef, deer, pork are richer meats and will make it harder for her stomach to settle down.

Hills food has an insane amount of carbs, very little fat, and not much protein. Vets get kick backs for it which is why more often than not they will prescribe it. It can do the job that they want it to do, but not usually in our breed since Huskies do not tolerate the ingredients in it. A Lab it might work on, a husky it rarely will. The majority of what is in the Hills food is unusable for a husky and thus it passes through her system rapidly which is why even with high fiber it carries no substance. It is moving so fast through her system she isn't absorbing any of it and taking the time to pack it into solid formed poops.

Colitis is something that time and removing the issue foods will often work out. Once the GI has been settled and isn't being pummeled by issue foods it will begin to heal on its own. It will take a while though. Colitis sometimes comes with slime mixed in with the poop. If you've seen slime or mucus looking substance mixed in with her stools then that would be a sign of potential colitis. If you have seen this then you may want to skip the rice and go for just pumpkin and turkey or really finely pureed green beans and turkey for your bland diet. Rice can sometimes grate on colitis.

She doesn't look overly underweight to me. You want to feel the last two ribs. If you can feel more ribs than the last two when you lightly run your hands down her sides. Better to be on the light side than on the heavy side in the long run. Most pups get in the 3 cup a day range while still puppies then as adults drop back to 2 cups. A food with higher actual usability will help with her ravenous apatite.

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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:46 am

Dakota is okay for weight and size, slightly on the thin side but, that isn't a bad thing for a large breed dog. That's a good thing actually, you want them on the thin side - they aren't growing too fast and, they aren't putting excess weight on growing bones and joints. That spares them a lot of bone and joint problems later in life and lessens the chance of hip dysplasia.

As puppies, Huskies do go in short bursts, then rest or sleep for an hour or two, usually with one longer nap during the day. Too much running and bouncing about is hard on young joints, they know that instinctively and won't overdo it unless it's to spend time with their human, like going for a walk or run with you. Don't expect her to act like the adult huskies you see in videos and such until she is 1.5 to 2 years old.

You're right about corn - it's for horses, cattle, sheep and, goats, not dogs. Sam as if 2/3 of your meal were wheat bran - okay it fills you up but, it comes right back out the other end and, you can't digest it. Sweet corn is better than the field corn in dog food but, yes, even humans have a hard time with it. It's better for us creamed or, chewed very well, all of the nutrients are inside and even we can't digest the outer layer of the kernels.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:50 pm

@ bluemoods
I am really relieved to get assurance that Dakota is looking OK. Its also nice to know that as a puppy she should be sleeping and having bursts of energy as well. I just kept thinking she is not getting enough food so I am failing her but clearly she is not eating the correct food so I do need to make changes in her diet.
What exactly can we expect when she is 1.5 and 2 years old? I feel bad as again the only husky owner I know but never have I seen her dog has 3 other dogs which are beagles. It makes me think Dakota may not be happy as she gets older if she doesn't have a companion.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Huskies are happy being the only husky, they love their humans, if you hadn't noticed, she's more focused on you and, wants you to play with her every chance she gets.

Huskies tend to mature mentally more than most other breeds, that happens sometime around age 2 to three. Your beagles are like tweens or young teens, Dakota will be an older teen or young adult as a comparison. My wolfdogs go all the way to middle aged adult by age 3 - they actually find puppies and any other dog that still yips and plays like a puppy annoying. Huskies are more tolerant of puppy like behavior from other dogs, provided they are socialized.

The wild was never bred out of Huskies entirely, they do have a high prey drive. That's why those games that simulate hunting for a small mammal under the snow (sniffing out food) work so well with them. Some sledders still allow their dogs to hunt for part of their food and, a husky is capable of doing it, if it needs to.

They are also bred to be independent thinkers. If the husky thinks it isn't safe to obey your command, it will disobey and, do what it thinks is safe for both itself and, for you. Think of a team of sled dogs and, the lead dog knows there in thin ice to the right. The musher says go right, lead dog leads the team, and thus sled and musher left instead - saving everyone a cold dip and, possible drowning. They work the same in a more urban environment or, out in the woods, on the beach, etc...

They will refuse to go down a trail because they know a venomous snake is a several meters ahead on that trail. They will bark and howl trying to call me back at the beach because I'm getting too close to a rip tide or a jelly fish. No I didn't train them to do that, it's bred into them, they have amazing instincts for keeping you and, themselves safe.

They are high energy working dogs and, if they don't have a release for that energy, either physical or mental, they get bored and, just like my wolfdogs, a bored husky is a destructive husky that can give house broken a whole new meaning by chewing and clawing/digging at nearly everything in the house if left home alone and bored.

They like to use their voices and "argue" with you. They don't outright bark so much but, they have a whole vocabulary of sounds and, they use them quite well when they think they need to. Most people find that amusing and, can have quite long conversations with their huskies.

Watch some videos of huskies arguing, huskies talking and funny huskies, you'll see what they are like.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:47 pm

Monika, she has you, your husband, and three playmates she's not going to be unhappy because she doesn't have anyone to play with!!

I have to admit that I read how much you are feeding her and completely ignored that that might be too much (as in way too much!)

Of my three, all adults, all get two cups of food a day. I have a food possessive female (Sky) who will guard her food bowl even though she hasn't eaten all of it; one possessive female (Sasha) who, I think, would gladly eat till she was bloated if I let her - interesting that she'll lay beside her water bowl and the bag of food and never indicate any interest in it; and one male (Avalanche) who would gladly eat anything he can get (to include Sky's leftovers when she moves away)  Obviously I can't feed them as much as they'd like - I'd have some very sick dogs and probably have a vet bill to take care of - bloat is not fun and can be very serious.)

This is a quick and simple test, for 36 hours feed her a cup in the morning and a cup in the evening, if her stools are still loose at the end of that then it's time to look at other 'things.'  But after having @Husky911 point it out, that is a definite possibility - as I mentioned, there's a quick and easy 'test' for that.

If her stools become more firm and you still think she's not getting enough then increase the amount by, let's say 1/4 cup a day - when she becomes loose again then just back up to when she was last firm.

It may not be that she's not a good food, it may be that she's getting too much of it and just 'passing it on through.'

Lethargy, at 7 months old you've had her through part of the winter (yes??) how active was she then??  Since you're in CT (thank you for that, BTW) if she's more active in the morning and the evening, you may be running afoul of temperature and humidity.  *My* guys do fine with 100° temp but the today humidity is 'high' at 31% so they're all crashed waiting for either the humidity or the temperature to go down. (So am I, it's muggy here today)  Hartford, at the moment, is 82° with 80% humidity (and I said it was muggy here??) I'd really expect her to be crashed out somewhere.

With moderately high temp and humidity she simply can't cool herself.  PetMD has an interesting article on how dogs cool themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:13 pm

Sorry if I have missed any responses that already say this, but Gatsby was about the same age as your girl when he also started having stomach issues. (He did ALWAYS have diarrhea after rounds of antibiotics, too.) We kept switching foods and he would either have diarrhea or refuse to eat all together. The only thing that made any difference for him was switching him to a home cooked diet. We throw chicken breast, rice, kidney beans, sweet potato, and a variety of frozen veggies in a crock pot and cook it on high for about 3 hours. It makes a lot of food and he's loved it ever since. We also top it with varieties of different fish or eggs from time to time.
He hasn't had any stomach issues since switching to home cooked (he's now 4.5 years old). There are definitely positives and draw backs to every option, because all dogs are different, especially each individual husky.

If you do decide to try home cooked, it's important to find a balanced vitamin to go along with it. We use a "gravy" on ours called Dynamite Showdown. You mix a little spoonful with water and stir it in with the food once per day.

Hope your girl feels better soon!
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:28 pm

@ Bluemoods - Yes I do see how happy Dakota is when others come home or when I return from an errand. I do find that Dakota loves everyone and has enjoyed our outings to my children's sports games an loves our walks especially when others are around and ask if they can pet her.
I can see them being destructive if not kept busy. Today for the 1st time ever I heard her clawing at our family room rug. We have not been enjoying the outdoors as much as usual as we have been having some spells of thunderstorms so we have run out to go potty and back in so we only had 1 walk today but now the sun is out so I am planning to take her on another stroll around the neighborhood.
She has 'spoken' to my kids and myself at times and we do so enjoy it when she does that. I do hope it occurs more often over time.
I am concerned that at times she does become a bit nippy. I am not sure if she playing only but it does frighten my son who then doesn't want to play with her. She will bring her blanket to him and push it toward him for him to take but at times she then bites it to take it back and has gotten his hand. I really think she is playing and doesn't mean any harm. I have seen her come behind my daughter and bite at her pants on her bottom and at times she complains that Dakota has hurt her... again I think she is looking for her to play with her but I do understand that her bite/teeth can hurt. Not sure how to stop her from doing this and I hope it will not get worse as she gets older.

@AlJones yes we do have a full house but at this very moment its just she and I and I feel bad for her as she is usually with me since I am a stay home mom. I do hope she is getting the exercise she needs. I can certainly say I am and I am enjoying every moment of it.
She arrived at our home on Feb. 1 so we did have her through part of the winter but we were told to take her out to go potty and back in so she would understand where to go so we had limited time playing even though we did let her run around a bit as she so loved the snow and made me enjoy it as well. I personally never liked the winter and snow but really came to appreciate it as I saw her enjoying it so much. She awakes anywhere from 4:30-5:30. I have been trying to work on her waiting until 5 or so to get up and go outside as the 4:30 wake ups were becoming a bit too early for me. She was going potty and then returning to her crate to nap until 5:15 or 5:30 where she would want to go out and take a short walk until breakfast at 6:15AM. She then returns to her crate and naps most of the morning. This was actually nice as I was able to get the kids ready for school and do some errands. Now that the kids are home they are amazed and think she is lazy but they have no idea we have been up and walking already as they and my husband sleep. Today we did take a walk around 1pm as I could tell she wanted to go out and it was very humid after the thunderstorm we had this morning. It didn't seem to bother her as I expected we would walk down the street and return home but she kept going on and even upon going past our home she took a turn and went down the other street. I then did return home as I felt she was doing too much in the heat of the day. She did have quite a bit of water when we returned and her favorite is to crunch on ice cubes.

As for her food I am not sure if she is getting too much but you did make me think about it much more. She was being fed 3x a day and then we were transitioning her to 2x a day on Friday, June 15 and she was getting more food at breakfast and dinner and less at lunch but I was decreasing lunch amount and adding it to the other meals so she would still get the same amount of food per day. I do see on her kibble that adult dogs at the same weight as she do get less food vs. a puppy at her weight so I never thought she was not getting enough or certainly not too much food. But I do wonder even though she transitioned from 3x to 2x maybe she doesn't require the same amount of food. I am only going by the vets recommendations that she have 1 13oz can of food and 3 cups of kibble per day. I wish I had seen your post earlier as I would have cut back on the amount of kibble I have been giving her. I will begin tomorrow with breakfast and only give her a cup of kibble with her canned food and do the same at dinner rather than the 1 1/2 cups of kibble. Thank you as that would be a very easy test to perform. I am glad that Husky911 did bring up that concern as well.

As for her food I did contact her vet and spoke to the lovely daughter vet who did state she understood why I wanted to change her diet but was concerned that I was basing my findings on the site dog food advisor as she feels that site is based solely on opinion and not fact. Just like she can create a site and have her clinic be named as the best in the area regardless of other opinions. She said she follows the guidelines of AAFCO and if the food states it has been formulated or has been tested it is acceptable. I told her I wanted to try Merrick brand and she did say that it is a good brand. However, if I felt that Hills prescription was not working then another option would be Purina Pro Plan EN for gastrointestinal issues. Again its another prescription food and she provided me the clinics number to access the site. Its a rather expensive option and seems to be more so then Hills but I have not read the ingredients as of yet to determine if its a better choice for Dakota. She said she may have some of the product but as they use Hills they don't store much of it at their facility. She also said that since Hills is a bland diet there is no need to put Dakota on a bland diet but I most certainly can if I feel I need to. She said that I could introduce the food on a 50/50% with kibble being the 1st change and then later the canned food. I just keep thinking I would rather purchase the Merrick no grain food and see how Dakota tolerates it. However, I am going to 1st reduce her kibble amount and see if her stool firms as again it occurred after we were reducing her lunch amount and adding it her breakfast and lunch that her stools changed from firm to soft.

@jumpshipsam I appreciate you sharing your experience with your husky and I am glad that you were able to help him with a home cooked diet. It is an option I would not be against as I would know exactly what Dakota is eating and I am sure it would be less expensive then the presctiption food we keep purchasing from the vet. I am one who likes to follow recipes and not necessarily wing it with my cooking. I am guessing that there may be some sites that offer recipes for making your own pet food. That would be the best thing for me so I will do a search for them. I love using my crockpot and what you make sounds delicious. How much do you give Gatsby at each meal?

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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    

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Desperate to help our beautiful girl

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