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 Desperate to help our beautiful girl

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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:58 pm

Monika, this may be a bit gross but let's go.  Husky's originated in the Siberian Arctic (tell her something she doesn't know) and like most canines it was often feast or famine.  If the Chukchi had just brought down a few deer it was feast, or if they migrated to the shore and brought in a load of fish then the Huskies were happy to make like gluttons.  If food was scarce then they had to work anyway and made do with what they and their hosts could come up with.  Because of this working (hauling sleds) on an empty stomach their bodies adjusted over centuries<?> to 'work with what they had.'  If you look at what most of us are feeding and then look at the food bags, you'll find that we're feeding ¾ (more or less) of the 'recommended'. For my dogs, for example, the bag recommends around 3 cups a day - they're getting 2 and thrive (one is overweight!)

It seems as if they managed quite well when the food was limited and when there was too much I'd bet that like most canines they ate whatever they could and literally eliminated the rest (just like Dakota is doing)

If you strictly limit her food to two cups of kibble ( or reduce the kibble if you're going to mix in any canned ) I'd put money on her stools firming up.  If you give her two cups of kibble plus a can of food a day you may not have reduced her intake enough to make an appreciable difference.

I know I'm sounding harsh because you want her to 'get up from the table feeling full' the problem is that dogs do eat as much as they can when they can because that's the way the had to live in the wild - and we're only a few generations from that.

Diarrhea is a symptom that somethings wrong, it might be a virus, it might be worms and it might be too much to eat. If I'd caught it, my first recommendation would have been to limit her food, because that's the problem that most people who are new to Huskies encounter.  But mea culpa, I completely glossed that part of your message.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:13 pm

I did read the food amount and thought it was an awful lot, but I considered the food and my mind broke it down similarly to how Jenn (TwisterII) broke it down in her post and that's basically a fairly poor quality of food, with very little nutritional value so her body is passing it through as fast as it can and absorbing very little (and probably why she's always hungry). It would still cause soft poop though because there's nothing really there to bind it together, but considering the breakdown of ingredients in her food, she probably needs at least that much. Thats why in higher quality kibble, you feed them much much less, because it's packed with all the nutrients in such a way that the body absorbs nearly all of it instead of passing it through as fast as it can. My opinion is get her off the Science Diet instead of cutting back on it. Adding pumpkin may in fact firm up her poop, but she still won't be getting the balanced nutrition she needs as a 7 month old puppy, so the pumpkin will just mask the issue, it won't fix it.
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Jade
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:04 pm

Hi! I joined the forums for reaching out about a similar issue with my own husky! My girl Ila is nearly three and has been suffering the same issues as your pup off and on for about a year. While I wish I had a solution to offer, I thought some of the things our vet has tried while attempting to narrow it down might interest you. I read you don't want to do blood tests or a biopsy (we're nearing the need to do the latter with our girl and I am real worried myself!), but some blood tests may be necessary to screen out issues. You'll see we had to do two of them ourselves. (The IBS test was done via ultrasound.)

B12 deficiency: Apparently that can cause diarrhea in dogs. Your vet can do a B12 test to screen for this, and according to our vet there's a rare case in huskies where they won't properly absorb B12 via their digestive system. We had to give Ila B12 supplements for 3 months before rescreening her.

Diet: Science Diet was recommended by our former vet at the very start of her issues. It only worsened them, and we took her off of it after reading some terrible reports of that happening in other dogs. Even though she was only eating it two weeks, she was sick for awhile after. She's on Acana now, but we're considering swapping to Taste of the Wild ourselves. I also agree with the amount. We feed our huskies, who are both very active dogs, 2 cups of kibble a day. I sneak our other husky Runa a bit extra on days they've been really active, but in my Ila I've definitely noticed issues arise from overfeeding.

IBS: Another vet test, and of course another reason she might be suffering this! This was pretty much the first thing our vet did with our girl.

Zinc Deficiency: When I brought this up with my vet, they gave me a much more concrete answer than yours. Our vet said that she's encountered that a few times over the years, and brought up some of the points you mentioned in an earlier post of yours. Her levels were tested, and she was fine here but we've given her weekly zinc supplements just to be certain. (Also, our other husky suffered some fur loss around her muzzle and since she started taking zinc too that's stopped!)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. We're frequently calling in a prescription for Metronidazole ourselves, and I hope your puppy recovers soon! It's a scary long term thing, but I think you've gotten some solid advice here! Fasting when she's suffering diarrhea does seem to help our Ila, and I really do recommend you try it next time Dakota has a problem.

Two quick questions:

Do you have any mulberry trees in your yard? The berries aren't poisonous, but can cause diarrhea in dogs too. Ila, of course, loves them and we cut down our mulberry tree to avoid her eating them.

I may have missed this (and other things! Sorry!) in another post, but where did you get Dakota? Ila is the product of a bad backyard breeding situation and a rescue, and our vet believes that whatever is causing these issues for our baby might be genetic. If you got her from a breeder, I'd reach out and discuss this with them and see if any of the other dogs in her line have shown similar issues.

It sounds like you're doing everything you can to help Dakota out, and I wish you and her the best!
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:46 pm

Al - I agree with all you have stated. I was speaking to my child's teen friend who stated that Huskies are snow dogs and hunters and actually he stated that all dogs usually like meat and that the 1st ingredient in the canned food Dakota is getting is water. Why is it not a protein but he did state that his Vet felt that too much protein in a dogs diet can make them aggressive. I have never thought of anything like that and I never thought if I eat more protein on certain days than others do I become more aggressive as well. May have to make a note of this and test this theory. But to get back to the Hill diet I do agree that when I read the ingredients I am not sure how this is considered a formulated diet acceptable to any dog. I prefer to read ingredients of food where I can understand what I am eating and it would be nice to do the same for Dakota as well.
I will be reducing her kibble as well as reduce her canned food for her breakfast. Since I was giving her 3 cups of kibble and 1 can of wet food I am thinking to reduce her kibble to 1 1/2 cups for the day and I am not sure about the can - perhaps I will give her 1/3 rather than a 1/2. I do hope she tolerates it well as I have noticed she becomes a bit feisty when she is hungry.
I plan to purchase the Merrick grain free food tomorrow and transition her even if reducing the amount of the Hill prescription does firm her stool. I really do feel its not the best food for Dakota and its not supplying her with all she needs.

I had gone to the site Dog Food Advisor and entered the Purina Pro Plan En as the Vet recommended this for Dakota and once again I see ingredients listed that I can't see providing her any nutritional value. This is just a few of the ingredients and is similar to Hills Prescription diet : Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, chicken meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols. I am getting the Merrick and will see how she tolerates it.

Hello Jade - thank you for sharing what you have been going through with Ila. I am sorry to hear that she has not been well. I would prefer not to put Dakota through the test and biopsy especially with all that she has been through already but its not something I would not do if I really had to. I am just thinking that she has been on Hills food for so long while that a change may be the answer. If of course it doesn't help her than at least we will know its not her food but she does indeed need a specialist to look at her and determine what is wrong with her.

To answer your questions:
We do not have any mulberry trees to the best of my knowledge as I have not seen any berries of any kind in our yard or the surrounding area. I do know we have some type of a nut tree as we have found many large shells in our yard that I had to rake early spring and Dakota was attempting to eat them but now she seems to have no interest in them as I do still have a pile among the edge of our property that I have not removed as of yet. I think its a hickory tree but I am not certain.

I don't believe I had mentioned where we did get Dakota from. She was purchased with funds from my children from a pet store in a town about 45 minutes away from us. Our paperwork states that she was bred from an Ann Quinn from Nianguia, MO and SanJon Kennels in Louisburg, MO. I had asked my husband to reach out to local breeders and he had but he and my children had also visited local pet stores and this particular one called my husband and informed him that they had a husky available. They couldn't wait to get her and so when the local breeder contacted us a month or so later we already had Dakota. I suppose we can contact the store owner or the Vet we initially saw as he takes care of all her dogs and see if he is aware of any other dog having issues as I would think she has used Ann Quinn before but I can't say for certain as this was our 1st time getting a dog.
Thank you as I do hope we are doing what we can for Dakota and I will make a point when I call the Vet to update them on Dakota's condition after we switch her food to inform them of what findings you have shared with me and that should test he for the B12 and Zinc deficiencies as well as the IBS test. Hoping just a diet change will cure her but only time will tell.
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:30 am

Oof, that looks like a puppy mill puppy. The breeder may have improved since this post, but, still what I found looks like a puppy mill. Problems are not surprising with a dog from a place like that. I'm glad you have Dakota and, will get her diet in order so that she can be a happy, healthy dog.

https://www.facebook.com/256732464402917/photos/a.257904787619018.61435.256732464402917/524788010930693/?type=1&theater

https://nopetstorepuppies.com/dog-breeder/quinn-ann

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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:53 am

Unfortunately after we got Dakota and these issues arose I did research Puppies of Westport and read some good and not so good reviews. I also tried to search Ann Quinn and only found an article in which she would not allow visitors onto her land but she was interviewed by the end of her driveway and some of her answers were quite vague. A gsd ain't we had Dakota but the cat that approved her fit to be sold had taken Dakota for 10 days and tried to get her better. He did succeed in getting her still to be former but it was still soft and we were told Huskies have softer stool compared to other dogs. He also gave my husband the option to return Dakota but we just love her and he couldn't do that. Also he was concerned about what would happen to her. So here we are and I am hoping we can get her better so she can be a healthy happy husky.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:17 am

You lost me in that last post ... part way down it looks like you managed to conflate a couple a sentences.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't bother trying to go back to the pet store or the "breeder." Pet stores typically buy from puppy mills (you didn't know) and they typically don't offer anything but a puppy.

Enough of that, you're here to get some help with your puppy - and I think she's a neat looking puppy - so let's just leave the "breeder" and where you got her from out of the equation. You have her, she's yours, your hers and that's all that matters.
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:06 am

Yep, let it go, you've got Dakota now and, you're a good owner so, as Caesar Milan says - there are not bad dogs, just bad dog owners." So we're good to go since Dakota has a good owner.

Get her on a grain free food in smaller portions, get her eating natural probiotics, like the pumpkin an yogurt mix and, I'm betting 10 to one that's going to fix her right up. As a very reputable wolfdog breeder here reminds me, northern breeds are closer to wolves than most other breeds, even purebreds do well being fed like wolfdogs.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:01 am

That breeder hasn't improved. I had one of her puppies in my possession for a short time that she had traded to someone for a deep freezer. If your pup came from the pairing that this one did I know this one had some intolerance to various foods. Poor thing had terrible skin problems and similar intestinal issues, so some of this could very well be genetic and will take some time to figure out what works and what doesn't. It's been a couple years but this one was showing issues with Chicken and Beef. Might be something to think about when choosing what flavor of Merrick you go with.

Dakota is lucky to have you. Many of the pups from that "breeder" haven't been as lucky.

It is essential for all to remember that this is a PUPPY. Not an adult. Some tests won't apply for a puppy and should be seen by a specialist before experimentally dosing for it. If you don't know exactly what you are dealing with when it comes to some of the various things a dog can be deficient in you can cause more harm than help by "trying it and seeing". Same with home cooking and raw feeding. If you come to the point of want/needing to go that route I would start a new thread that is separate and we can help you with how to properly balance a DIY meal plan. It is not building a stew and feeding it. Just want to add that disclaimer.

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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:44 pm

Sorry AlJones - I think I was very tired when I was typing my response and lost my focus. I did find paperwork and see that the seller guarantees our puppy for 6 months from the sale date for congenital defects which would adversely affect the life or long term health of our puppy. I don't know how we would determine if Dakota has any defects nor do I understand what would occur as I can't imagine not having her with us. Once we had Dakota she was found to have Giardia and Coccidia as well as worms and parasites but she had been treated and was cleared. The last issue found with her stool was the beginning of May and she was given medicine and then she was fine and was able to be spayed on May 22. Only until June 15 did she have firm stools and it seem she was finally doing well. I did fail to mention that my eldest daughter had taken Dakota in the woods by her school for a hike. My daughter knows that she has to watch out for Dakota to not place anything in her mouth. She had taken her again another within a day or 2 after but Dakota has not gone there since. I wonder if she did come across something that could cause her to have soft stools but not diarrhea. We did have her stool tested and it did return a negative result. I am trying to remember the changes in her diet since we got Dakota on february 1.
She was on Holistic Health Extension puppy food - chicken and brown rice dry and beef or chicken canned food.
The Vet changed her diet to Hills I/D for sensitive stomachs dry & can around March 19 and our current Vet made a change to the Hills prescription diet dry and can around April 14 which is what she is currently on at this time. I can only think her food is causing her to have the soft stool or something occurred while she took a hike in the woods 2 weeks ago.
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:57 pm

I did go to our local pet supply store to purchase new food. I now am questioning my decision. I intended to get Merrick grain free food. Upon speaking to the manager and answering some of his questions he wondered why I was looking for a grain-free food unless I had knowledge of allergens that Dakota has. Does she have watery eyes, mucous from her nose, itch issues, patchy skin etc. None of these pertain to her. He asked she eats grass and said yes which I had heard was due to an upset stomach. He felt it could also be that she is missing nutrients from her diet and is searching for it outside as well as having a husky years ago he recalls his boy always wanting to eat anything he could find. The managers recommendation as I did state that I wanted to avoid chicken and beef due to recommendations from so many of you was to try lamb and potato kibble but it is not grain-free made by Redford Naturals. They do have a grain-free diet as well but he was not certain as to why I would want to remove the grain from Dakota's diet if I was not certain of any allergens.
I apologize as I just couldn't recall why a grain free diet is better for a husky.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:22 pm

My apologies if I ruffled any feathers asking where Dakota came from! My question was't intended to be rude whatsoever, and was asked merely to suggest that if she was from a breeder they might have an idea or experienced similar in the past. I also didn't mean to sound like I was suggesting to dose her with anything without speaking to a vet. I was simply sharing what I've tried with my own dog with a similar situation.

Monika, getting her on a different food is a great first step! My fingers are crossed that it fixes your fur baby up and nothing else is necessary! I'm not familiar with your new brand of food, but it seems to get really good reviews online! Wishing you and Dakota the best of luck and health!
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:46 pm

Jade - I don't think you asked anything that was rude at all so there is no need to apologize. I truly do appreciate you sharing with me what you are going through with Ila and I welcome any questions as they may help me find a solution or guide me to somewhere I never would have thought to do such as now with trying a different food and seeing how Dakota responds to it.

I have no knowledge of the breeder nor do I believe my husband asked but we have paperwork so that is why I know where Dakota came from. I did feel comfortable with the puppy store owner as she also provided us with her cellphone number if we had any questions about Dakota. I had sent her many texts and she responded as well as had spoken to her when Dakota had her bout of diarrhea. She had told me to feed her chicken and rice with salt free chicken broth and also mentioned giving her pumpkin as well as greek yogurt. She had given us Holistic Health Extension puppy food in chicken and brown rice and beef and chicken canned food which only had 3 ingredients of beef, beef broth and garlic. Treats were only a freeze dried chicken made by PureBites that we were given Dakota when she went outside to potty for training. I liked that I could read the ingredients on the dry and can food and understand what they are and feel good about giving them to our pup. Sadly along the way I became overwhelmed with all the digestive issues Dakota was having and the Vet saying that she has a sensitive stomach so changes needed to be made and that is when we changed to the Hills food for sensitive stomachs and it seemed to work initially but she still had bouts of diarrhea and we thought it was due to all the things she had caught such as worms, coccidia, giardia and parasites. The current vet felt a prescription diet would suit Dakota better and with her bowel issues they felt a high fiber diet would help to bind her. Again I got lost in fix the problem but yet we never found what that problem is exactly. The current vet has been good about not just medicating Dakota especially after all she had been through before they saw her but I think they have exhausted all that they can do and that is why they feel she needs a specialist to do blood work and tests and perhaps a biopsy to know what is going on with Dakota as everything else seems to help for a short time only. I have decided not to give her the Zinc supplement as its not been determined that she does indeed need it but again I was searching for any ideas on what could be the issue with our pup. At this time I will be changing her food and seeing how she reacts to it and contacting the Vet hopefully after a week as I do hope Dakota doesn't begin to have diarrhea but I know we have to try something as I don't think what is going on is normal. I do plan to share with our Vet what you had found with Ila regarding the vitamin deficiencies and tests as I do think if the change in diet does't help we will have to go the same path as you.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:57 pm

I had posted early on in the thread. Dakota looks like a lean pup that is in a growth spurt, they do look gangley and leggy and under weight. Adding a few pounds is fine, but she is not especially under weight. I have a husky mix and a pure bred gsd, and both have had issues with feeding. I have researched and read up on conditions for close to 5 years now, because of their various issues.

Plos 1 is a scientific journal, although huskies are not wolves, nor are they closely related to wolves, they do, because of their origins lack certain enzymes that other dog breeds have. This means that many huskies can not process grains well and tend to be intolerant to grains. Intolerance will show up as loose poops. Plos 1 article http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148899 if I can find the original article it further explains that some huskies have as few as 2 copies of enzymes, similar to wolves vs most dog breeds. Most on this forum feed grain free. Most feed 1-2 cups daily. My husky mix girl had many issues as a puppy never realizing that grain inclusive foods was a contributing factor to her frequent loose poops. At around 75 pounds she still only eats max 2 cups of Taste of the Wild Prey line and around 6 ounces of raw. She poops once a day, sometimes twice and are well formed, but this was after much research, finding the right food, and getting rid of all of the worms and parasites she had as a puppy. My gsd coming from a very good breeder, with 0 puppy issues as far as parasites and worms had loose poops forever. Cutting out almost everything and cutting her down to 1.5 cups a day and 2-4 ounces of raw, never feeding anything with chicken, and she now goes 2-3 times and her poops are mostly formed. Over feeding and not feeding the proper breed specific food is the number one reason for frequent pooping and for soft, pudding poops. After so many years I should have known better, but figuring a different breed, she needed more, don't think now that is the case. Most health issues like zinc deficiency, B vitamin issues, and those type of issues typically pop up at around 2 years old. The next biggest issue people fall into with huskies is frequent changing of diets. It took about 4 weeks of feeding my gsd 1.5 cups a day down from 2.5 cups a day to really see a change in the frequency and amount and the consistency of her poops. People tend to switch up too often with food. Pick one grain free food of good quality and stick with it, give it minimal of 4-6 weeks to see any type of change, continue with made for dogs probiotics. If after that amount of time, I would suggest an enzyme made for dogs, but that will be a maybe and let's see how it goes for the next 4- even 8 weeks, before looking at other remedies. lastly as I have mentioned earlier, huskies derive their energy thru fat, this is the case with my husky mix girl she needs high fat, my gsd on the other hand does not do well with a lot of fat. Working dogs like labs for instance derive their energy thru carbs, and that is why they do so well on grain inclusive foods. The food you got is relatively new, and the manager is pushing it, since it is a store brand they are trying to sell. I did not include Merrick in my first reply, and actually gave a list of food to look at that have been known successful for the breed. Merrick is fed here and there from members of this forum, and I have personally fed merrick can to both of my girls with nice results, tho honestly can is not really needed, too much liquid as I have found can also produce soft stools. I would get a softball or a rock and place it in the food bowl to help slow the pup down on eating.
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Husky911
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:04 pm

Ugh...you guys are killing me with your gut problems...RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW... lol! ...It literally fixed all of Echo's problems within 12 hours, and 1 year later, he can bathe and eat swamp sludge and not have diarrhea the next day...Iron stomach!



**end my PSA on a RAW diet Laughing **

Anyhow...to answer your question Momof3&asibe, grain free food is becoming best practice in the world of canine meals because grains in general is just a cheap filler for companies to substitute dog food with.  It has limited nutritional value and your dog really isn't able to digest it well.  So it passes right through them, often as diarrhea, in large piles of stinky crap.  

I can assure you that Echo, who is on a purely meat/bone based diet with added supplements of fish oil, kelp, alfafa and spirulina gets all the necessary minerals, and nutrients he requires to be a healthy active dog.  Literally meat, fish oil and seaweed.  Nothing else.  His meals can't be more basic.  None of this chicken meal, corn gluten meal, beet pulp, liver flavor, soybean oil, etc etc, garbage garbage garbage!  Like what is beet pulp?  Ewww...

I can also tell you that Echo loves grazing on grass, leaves, branches, seeds, and anything he can put his mouth on in the city.  People say it cleanses the colon, or dogs do it because they're missing vital nutrients, blah blah blah...who knows what it does, but I can assure you he doesn't digest it at all, because it all comes out in a clump in the other end, or it's dangling and I'm fishing a tall blade of grass out of his ass.  There is no nutritional value to why he does it, he just likes doing it.

I can show you the textbook pristine blood work and urine analysis I got from his recent annual physical on RAW without grains, without commercial dog food as proof.  Commercial dog food companies scare you saying that just feeding basic organic materials isn't a wholesome meal, and its nothing further from the truth.  

While I cannot guarantee you that grains is what is causing your dog's runny poops, it could be a factor.  The only real way to test it is to eliminate as much as you can from his diet and stick to basic wholesome rich organic, biologically appropriate foods like meat, bone, and fruits/veggies, and then re-introduce slowly what you wish to see what makes your dog's tummy tick.

Going back to the basics, dogs were meant to hunt and forage for food in the wild, which typically consists of animals, berries and plants.  They weren't meant to eat processed foods and all the junk we typically see in commercial dog foods nowadays.  While we are becoming more and more cognisant of these facts, it is the reason why we suggest you buy a high quality kibble where the main ingredients are usually raw meats and organic vegetables and very little of anything else.  OR switch to a RAW biologically, species appropriate diet  Rolling Eyes  (ok...i'll stop shoving RAW down everyone's throat)

Good luck with your quest for the iron stomach!  Glad your pup is feeling better I love you
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:42 pm

Thank you as you are making me realize I did once again get talked into trying a product I am not familiar with but was happy with the ingredients as I did find the 1st few ingredients to be much better than what Dakota gets in her Hills food. I am upset with myself as my intention was to get the Merrick grain free food and I didn't stick to my plan. I think I should have sucker written on me. I had never been in this place before and was quite overwhelmed with the different types of food that are offered. When a woman entered with a very handsome 6 month old german shephard who was quite a bit larger than Dakota and the manager asked what he was being fed and we were told the Taste of Wild food but at times doesn't finish all his food so she saves it for later. I didn't ask if she was just feeding him just dry as I can't see mixing dry and can and saving it for later as being a healthy thing to do but again I am not sure if I am correct on my opinion. I should have at that moment said I would rather have that brand or Merrick and been done.

Unfortunately, I did open the new bag of food and give some to Dakota to see if she would like it and she did so now I am concerned about changing her food once again. I can only hope as she only had a 1/4 cup of the new food that getting Taste of the Wild will not be too upsetting to her.

The manager asked what the protein percentage is on the HIlls prescription food is and I had no idea but upon looking at the bag I know its 22% and even though I purchased lamb flavor of the Redford Natural brand as I wanted to stay away from chicken and beef it only has a protein of 25%. I see that Taste of the Wild venison and bison has 32% protein. The manager said that too much protein could be bad and go right through the pup but I figure as long as she gets what she needs from the food she should release what she doesn't use. I am not sure what breed that manager was referring to as there may be some dogs that can not handle a high protein type of food but I think this is what is best for Dakota.

I was actually curious if it is necessary to feed her can and if dry would be enough for her. I had done a search about the best dry food and mixing both. The only reasoning I can see for using both is that it entices dogs to eat as some may not want to eat just dry food as it doesn't taste as good as the canned. I do know that my brothers family only provide dry to his chihuahua and the family with 1 husky and 3 beagles only gives their dogs dry as the children do not like the smell or texture of can. I do feel Dakota gets more then enough water as I give her fresh water at least 3 times a day and my children love to give her ice cubes and have her munch on them.

If I do give Dakota dry and can and the recommendation for a pup her size is 2 - 2 1/3 cup per day I would reduce that amount as I am also giving her some canned food. Is this correct?

I believe from looking at the nutritional information that Taste of the Wild has 3,719 kcal/kg, 370 kcal/cup and the canned food has 989 kcal/kg, 370 kcal/13.2 oz can. I am thinking I should look up how many calories a husky at 7 months should have per day and that would help me to know what is the correct amount she should be eating as well. I am not sure if I am reading the calories correctly but does the dry have 3,719 calories per cup or is it 370 calories per cup?

Thank you for educating me and I hope with all this knowledge I will be on the right track to help our pup be the healthiest and happiest girl she can be.




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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:00 am

I feed my guys dry kibble only, mostly Taste of the Wild High Praire, occasionally Crave Salmon. Its 370 calories per cup. My 80 pound big guy gets 2.25 cups total, 1,1 and 1/4 (less with the crave as it has 430 calories per cup) My little guy at 48 pounds gets 1.5 cups.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:05 am

Too much protein can be bad, I know this because BOTH my dogs butts exploded on a food I got them (Solid Gold High Protein) when I was trying to "fix" Mishka's issues. I believe it's protein was in the 33%-36% range. Kohdi is always healthy as a horse so when both dogs have problems, I know the culprit is more than likely something they ate.

Another member here, MiyasMomma, is pretty knowledgeable on foods and one time recommended to me I go to a food with lamb, as it is a meat easy on the stomach (if I remember correctly) I did go with lamb on their current food (lamb and apple) which is the Acana Singles line (limited ingredient and one main protein) Although I don't know anything about the food you bought, I think you are doing good going with lamb. I would recommend going with Acana, but my belief is it's probably too rich for my Mishka, so my bet is your pup would probably be the same, and I switched formulas and flavors within the Acana line so it's not the lamb. Mishka does do better on it though, and it's great for Kohdi and I prefer to keep my dogs on a meat based protein, food. Food is very tricky! They both only get 1 1/2 cups of food a day, but gained weight! So I have to be careful with it. I also can't say 100% that Acana has caused Mishka distress at times, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, mushroom/grass eating is also a suspect in her latest little episode, and I've suspected other things in the past so my "Acana may be too rich for her" theory is only a gut feeling, nothing concrete.

I do wish you luck on the new food, I'm relieved you got her off of Hills as fast as you did (when my vet recommended a Mishka be put on it, I bought a bag and a few cans and Mishka wouldn't touch the stuff and she's not normally picky about what she eats...was good for fasting her though cuz she went two days without eating because of it) I think it's onwards and upwards from here on out Smile give it time though, it really takes at least a month to *really* know if a food is working out or not, in most cases. And DONT beat yourself up about buying a different food than what you wanted, I was talked into Royal Canine once and brought home a bag! Before I opened it though, I researched it's ingredients and yup, went right back to the store to return it. I sometimes will take "mistakes" as being a "what's meant to be type thing, it's entirely possible this food you got her was for the best, wouldn't that be awesome. So stop beating yourself up, it's ALL a learning process and makes us better dog parents,
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:14 am

Jimmy - I'm a bit concerned re the mushrooms that Mishka is eating. Anyway you can eradicate them?
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:34 am

I am too, Amy, that is why they are not allowed outside until I've been over the grass looking for any mushrooms. So far so good. They are not eating the mushrooms purposely, they are super tiny and in between the blades of grass, and the grass is what they are purposely eating.

Dry weather should help (they were popping up while we were having days and days of cloudy dreary type weather (called June Gloom here) less water, since they thrive in moist soil (I'm watering less already since the grass is now rooted securely) and raking to remove them (but doesn't necessarily remove the roots so I still have to rake AND remove what's been raked up, and sulfate of ammonium is suggested to help dry them out faster so I'm doing that this weekend. I haven't been in a hurry since I haven't seen any all week and sulfate of ammonium is a greening up fertilizer so it'd make the grass grow faster and thicker and make it harder for me to see these little things. Summer is definitely here now though, and seems to be already helping. Thank you for your thoughts Amy Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:51 pm

If you can mow your lawn every other day while the toadstools are fruiting (being visible, in about two weeks, you will eliminate them. They can't spread spores if they are cut off before they are mature enough to do so, no spores, no toadstools and, keeping the grass very short allows the ground to dry faster, killing unseen spores that can't handle the dryness or sun.

Mushrooms spread by dropping spores form the caps, not from roots, that have very little in the way of roots.

We used to get them here too - now my only mushrooms are the Shiitake I have growing on the logs in my Shiitake garden and, those are human food.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:22 pm

I have returned the food and picked up TOTW High Prairie Canine Grain-Free Dry Dog Food as well as the canned food. While in the store as we brought Dakota with us this time to get out of the house the manager gave her some of the kibble I was returning to to the store as they do take back opened bags of food. Guess he wanted to see how she reacts to it but I wanted to get TOTW regardless. She did vomit some yellow substance with some black long pieces in it. I have seen her vomit bile but never with anything else in it before. The manager said its the 2nd time today a dog has vomited in the store and she must be dehydrated especially since huskies are not intended to be in the heat we are having. We are in an air conditioned home to an air conditioned car and yes a few minutes in the parking lot to an air conditioned store. Dakota has fresh water available to her at all times but I was wondering if she did vomit because she is dehydrated. I tried to search for information about dehydration and vomit but I only find that vomiting can lead to dehydration.
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:55 pm

Monika, If, as you said, she has water available to her (I presume at home) all the time then there's virtually zero chance of her becoming dehydrated from a car ride (even an unairconditioned car) unless your store is a few states away.  (( erm ... considering the size of the states up there, that is a possibility, isn't it?? ))

On the flip side of that though - air to heat to air to heat - *I* don't do that well.  Since most folks have their air set to 72° plus or minus a few and given outside air temp in the high 80's / low 90's - though it's not common - I'd look at that change rather then dehydration.

Now it's time for me to become the curmudgeon (I have a rep here to uphold)  If you continue to change dog food quickly and basically at random you're going to have a puppy who continues to have problems.  Once you change food, it's going to take - at lest - a few days for her system to try to adjust to the new food.  In the meantime you're going to continue to have diarrhea - if you switch again before her body has a chance to either accept or reject the new food, you're going to continue ... << ditto >>

I and others have suggested reducing the amount you feed her as well as eliminating the canned food from her diet.  If there is ONLY one food source then we can work on eliminating problems.  Have you done that and how long was she on the new food and what were the results?

While many of us wish there were a solution to this all too common problem, there isn't any magic bullet that is going to cure her overnight.  While I can read your desperation the constant rapid fire changes only exacerbate the situation.  

Now you can feel free to call me an old curmudgeon ... you wouldn't be the first.

BTW expect slower responses over the weekend, most of our crew are out and about over the weekend.
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bluemoods
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:17 pm

Now stick with one food, use the canned only in small amounts, like 1/4 can mixed with warm water to make a gravy for the kibble IF she is reluctant to eat the kibble dry, which they can be with teething at times.

If with one food and reduced amount, her stools don't firm up in 3-4 days, it's going to take a vet to figure out what the problem is and, why she isn't digesting her food properly.

Yes mine do switch formulas of the same brand of food and, do get a variety of raw meat that changes with the seasons but, they are all acclimated to that diet as puppies, little by little. At first only raw chicken and kibble, then with 2 days of good stools, one new item added and, a bit of kibble removed. My youngest, 13 weeks old eats kibble, chicken, venison, pumpkin and, rabbit now, Tuesday we will add pork and, later in the week blackberries, All of the plant material is a small portion of the dog diet but, it's meant to replace the stomach and intestinal contents they would eat if they were eating whole animals.

By fall she will have apple, pear, rice, potato, catfish, bass, trout, duck, goose and gator added to her diet options assuming she handles them all well, if not then , she won't get a problem item after three days of trying it, less than that if she vomits with a certain food item.

With water available at home, and the dog being home most of the time, dehydration is very unlikely to be an issue. With a car ride, anxiety or excitement, or even the odor of the cleaning chemicals in the pet store would be a more likely cause of her vomiting then.

I had to stop using one of my all purpose cleaners, Kaila vomited every time she sniffed a surface cleaned with that cleaner. I switched to a different cleaner and, no more vomiting over sniffing the kitchen cabinets. I can live with a citrus vs a lavender based cleaner easier than I can live with upsetting my dog over a clean kitchen. Smile
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Momof3&asibe
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PostSubject: Re: Desperate to help our beautiful girl    Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:52 pm

Thank you Bluemoods. I like the idea of using canned food sparingly if Dakota doesn't want to eat the dry food.

I understand as it makes sense if TOTW doesn't help her to have firmer stool in a few days that it wouldn't be wise to jump to another type unless I was certain that she has an allergy to chicken as I read that the TOTW Pine Forest has no chicken but it doesn't have a canned food to go with it. I can see jumping to different foods could make things worse for Dakota so it would be time to return to the Vet and see the specialist to do tests and see if they can find a reason for her digestive issues.

How nice for your puppies to have such an assortment of food. I hope all goes well and she tolerates all the foods you will be introducing to her.

Dakota does enjoy car rides but we haven't been going many places in the past few weeks and I didn't even think of the cleaning supplies the store as being an issue but that does make perfect sense. I knew she was really excited as she kept pulling on her harness to get to some items in the front of the store. Not good when there are open boxes of some types of bones or chew items. We used to give her bully sticks but haven't done so in many months.

I was told by a friend who has a labradoodle that she gives him bone marrow and bully sticks and bones but never rawhide - are there better things to give then others. I realize we are quite a bit away from giving Dakota any type of bones until we can get her food and digestion issues resolved but I am curious what other huskies can safely have.

I agree I would forgo the smell of certain cleaners if it harms my pup as she is more important than a clean fragrant kitchen.
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