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 Atopic dermatitis

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avalentine
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PostSubject: Atopic dermatitis   Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:00 pm

Help my 3 year old male Husky is presenting allergies. He had a biopsy to see if he had ZRD but it showed atopic dermatitis which is the skin reaction to allergies. So he has been on Z/D diet for food allergies but now he is worse than ever. Sores around mouth, eyes now he has runny eyes and 10 different hot spots. Tried benadryl nothing did the diet nothing.spent over 1000k nothing. oh did steroids but that just makes it look better for me for 2 weeks then its back and he acts different.So vet wants to start Atopica anybody tried this? Ive been researching it like crazy lots of good some bad. Just wondering?
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:37 pm

From what I understand, atopic dermatitis can be caused by a few things: weed, tree and grass pollens, wool, house dust, molds, feathers, plant fibers, and so forth. Some dogs could even have indoor allergies (usually house dust, grain, mites, or molds). I also understand it sometimes can be mis-diagnosed from flea allergy dermatitis, scabies, food allergies, and other skin diseases as they present the similar symptoms.

You mentioned a biopsy. Did they test for specific allergens that is causing this? So that you could isolate the cause and maybe control exposure to it? If it's grass, tree or weed pollens, you can wipe down your dog after being outdoors to help decrease exposure.

I have no experience with atopic dermatitis myself, but a couple of things that you could do as a non-Rx treatment to see if any helps some: essential omega-3 fatty acid products derived from fish oils used as nutritional supplements could help. Some of the shampoos for dry skin to help moisturize and rehydrate their skin. I think there are oatmeal shampoos out there that supposedly helps with dry skin. Some dogs with atopy can also benefit from switching to a higher-quality, grain free dog food if they are allergic to house dust mites, they often cross-react with grain mites and may sometimes benefit from a canned food or kibble that has no grain.


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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:17 pm

I had a whole reply post typed up on my tablet yesterday for this thread and just as I was finishing up the tablet just shut off. Evil or Very Mad I was so mad I just gave up.

But today's a new day so I'm going to type up a new one albeit shorter. Smile

Claudia gave you some good suggestions that you might try.

You say you spent over $1000k...do you mean $1k? Over a million sounds a bit out there! Razz And if you spent over $1k, what all did that cover? What tests and stuff did your vet run besides the biopsy? Have you taken your dog to different vets to get 2nd and 3rd opinions? Have you had an allergy test done? If you haven't had an allergy test done yet, that's what I would make a priority so that you can pinpoint what allergies might be the problem and maybe manage that better.

My grandmother's Yorkie has atopic dermatitis and is allergic to grass. Her vet put her Yorkie on steroids and it worked but she was not happy keeping her dog on steriods long term so she stopped using it. Currently she just makes sure to wipe down her Yorkie's paws with a baby wipe every time they come in from outside. This seems to be helping and of course only allowing their dog on the grass when it needs to potty.

Any vet that recommends Science Diet would send me running, personally. Have you got any holistic vets around you that might be an option? Either way, I would first have an allergy test done and then at least try to manage the atopic dermatitis with non-chemical remedies first before turning to prescription drugs. Of course, I say this coming from the holisitic/homeopathic point of view...I hate using drugs and chemicals if I don't absolutely have to.

Pinpointing the allergies would be very helpful. Next I'd definitely make a diet change, to something better than Science Diet. What you feed is entirely up to you and your comfort/time/commitment level but I would look into either raw, dehydrated/freeze dried raw, or a quality grain free kibble. You can find plenty of suggestions and help on this in the Nutrition section of the forum. In addition to diet change you might want to supplement with something for the skin and coat, I'd recommend something like Missing Link or Nupro as a general vitamin/mineral supplement along with either fish oil or extra virgin coconut oil for the skin.

Like Claudia also mentioned, trying a different shampoo could help. There are good shampoos for the skin, my holistic vet recommended one to me a couple years ago but I forget the name of it. There are also oatmeal shampoos that are really soothing to the skin, I particularly like Bio-Groom Natural Oatmeal Soothing Shampoo & Conditioner. I also really like Earthbath shampoos, I've only used Earthbath Tea Tree & Aloe but Earthbath also has an Oatmeal & Aloe Shampoo that would probably be better for a dog like yours.

My husband as a lot of allergies, to plants, pollen, and DUST! Keeping the house well cleaned and vacuumed is essential is managing his allergies without the use of drugs (Claritin, Benadryl, etc). Another thing that helps is having a really good air purifier to remove those allergens from the air inside the house along with the allergy filters for the central A/C air intake. It's a lot of work but in the end it's worth it to not have to have him drugged up all the time. If it were my dogs I would do the same thing if it would help them and keep them off drugs as well. Just my 2 cents.

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Lu&Katsmom
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:25 pm

Val's recommendations pretty much match mine, so I won't repeat too much. Would definitly stay away from the Science Diet, and if you have not done so already, get an allergy test done. Our girl Luka is allergic to a long list of food and environmental things. Knowing what exactly your dog is allergic to helps greatly. Much easyer to avoid something if you know what it is! Switching to a raw diet has helped us greatly. In addition to being on a daily vitamin and fish oil, we give her this stuff called Aller'G Free by a company called Azmira. It makes a big difference for her, especially during the spring. Our vet also recommended a HEPA filter for our bedroom, which is where she sleeps.

Does he just itch, or does he swell up as well? Any vomiting or diarrhea?

This is what Lu looks like when she has an allergic reaction to something Sad


Hope you can find something that works for your pup. I know its hard to see them all itchy and unhappy.
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:29 am

I have allergies myself: dust, pollen, cats and dogs! YES! I am allergic to almost all dogs...but the ONE I am NOT allergic to is, of course, Huskies! I read somewhere that a lot people with allergies to animals will sometimes find they are not allergic to huskies because of a special coating on their fur that repels dirt and water. Therefore, they do not carry a lot of the allergens that humans are allergic to!



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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:15 am

@Lu&Katsmom wrote:
In addition to being on a daily vitamin and fish oil, we give her this stuff called Aller'G Free by a company called Azmira. It makes a big difference for her, especially during the spring.

Melissa, thanks for recommending the Aller'G Free product. I've never heard of it before now but I like the looks of it from what I'm reading about it and the ingredients. May I ask how long you've been using the product? Has it provided significant improvement and how long before you noticed any changes?

I'd like to know more as this may be something that I can recommend to my grandmother for her dog who is allergic to grass. I also prefer all natural, holistic/homeopathic remedies for my dogs and one of mine (Glory) has allergies. Allergies to what exactly I don't know for sure, but oatmeal shampoo, Nupro supplement, coconut oil, and a partial raw diet have helped noticeably reduce her itchiness but not completely eliminated it. I'd like to know more about Aller'G Free before I decide if it's something I'd like to try on my dog Glory.

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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:11 pm

Ah, Glory does have allergies! Not to food, but to something else!

I *think* my boy doesn't tolerate fish very well...I gave him a couple of Wishes pieces and he went soft the next day. I'll have to double check again as it could just be the 'settling period' he's going through, but my 2 could very well be complete opposites! (small-big, fish-beef, Myristin-Nupro...HA!)

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Lu&Katsmom
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:47 pm

@Huskyluv wrote:
May I ask how long you've been using the product? Has it provided significant improvement and how long before you noticed any changes?

I've been using it for about three years now. It took about a month or so before we started to notice a significant difference. It took a bit longer for all the hair she was chewing off herself to grow back in. It really has helped Luka. She rarely chews on herself anymore, and itches a lot less. During the winter months, I am able to bring her down to a half dose, but once spring hits, its back to full strength.
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Thanks for the input, I can't find any user reviews/comments about it online so it's nice to know about your personal experience and success with it.

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avalentine
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Yes I meant 1k sorry. My vet seems one sided on the whole thing he didnt really have tummy issues I keep telling him he smells like cooked butter and the sores around eyes,mouth,nose. Now he is itchy all over he put a hole in his head yesterday while in the car waiting for me then i found sores starting on his belly. Now vet thinks fleas. I have found no flea dirt on him or fleas.So dont Know if Im doing the right thing but i made an appointment for a second opinion with a vet who is open to holistic instead of getting the Atopica which costs $250 a month. He is definitely allergic to something but I am not sure what yet my vet said testing would cost as much as the med and that he will need to go on it anyway so we should just give him the med and skip testing your responses are giving me red flags so friday 9 am he is seeing someone new. I will let you now what happens. Thank you all for the advice. Hobie is my 2nd Husky and for 12 years my 1st one never had a problem. Hobie has a problem every 6 mos. He was an abused rescue most likely from a puppy mill since he was originally bought at pet store by a 19 yr old boy who abused him. but I love him more than anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:22 pm

Oh and about the science diet. He was on Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul dry mixed w/ Blue buffalo chicken canned.I then switched to Solid Gold dry mixed w/ Blue Buffalo lamb and rice. Vet insisted he has a food allergy and the only way to test was w/ Science diet Z/D. I had never used science diet before and yes he is worse. The vet I have an appt w/ Friday knows and recommends raw so hope he can get me on the right track.He has been like this since Christmas time.
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:35 pm

If the new holistic vet that you are going to see on Friday is suggesting raw, I'm thinking he is open to other options as to what Hobie is allergic to. You don't often hear of any vet recommending a raw diet! In fact, almost all vets will advised against raw. From what I've learned on this forum is that most vets aren't really into nutrition, unless they are a holistic vet.

Ginger had a time when she had scary diarreha. I seeked advise from the forum, and with the help of some the gals here and switching to a holistic vet, Ginger turned around within 36 hours.

Please keep us posted as to what your holistic vet says!
I hope Hobie gets better soon!

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Lu&Katsmom
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:12 am

Hobie is such a cute boy! Hope your appointment goes well. Please let us know how it goes! Smile
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:57 pm

I'm glad you are seeking the advice of a holistic vet. My holistic vet recommends raw and she sells it too! Very Happy If raw is something that you are open to trying I'm sure your vet will give you some advice and of course we are also more than happy to help you too.

It sounds like you've tried some pretty good foods between the Chicken Soup, Blue Buffalo, and Solid Gold. Hopefully you can narrow his allergies down soon. Sounds like Hobie had a horrible start in life. Kudos to you for taking him into your home and caring for and loving him the way he deserves. He sounds lucky to have you. Please update us on how your vet visit goes on Friday!

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avalentine
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:40 pm

Hello all!, Hobie went to new vet today. Came home w/ new raw diet. Vet wants me to get kibble out of his diet. Called Omas Pride.i cant believe you can give them turkey necks ect you mean BONES!!? This is foreign to me hopefully I will learn how to do this in the mean time they have a couple different brands of raw.I dont know how to make it myself but this is a start. Also probiotics, fish oil, vit E,aloe juice and gel,Allerderm spot on (ceramides,fatty acids), a chewy supp. called Derma Strength and zinc. Also he said I should wipe him down after walks clean his face ect. My husband isnt grasping the raw diet thing but he isnt the one who feeds him or takes care of him.I am going w/ the frozen pre made raw untill i GET IT. Because frankly it sounds scarey and not right even though I know its ok but there are BONES and Raw stuff and I dont know what I am doing yet. Vet also said i should be feeding in ceramic bowls I have metal I always thought that was better?
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:22 pm

The forum has an entire section on raw feeding. There's several of us on the forum that are partial raw feeders, myself being one of them.

Ginger gets whole chicken wings, neck, back, a drumstick, bone and all, for dinner. She's fed 3 times a day, so her breakfast and lunch is The Honest Kitchen with about 1/8-1/4 cup of Orijen. Honest Kitchen is dehydrated raw, with meat, fruits and veggies that you rehydrate. For dinner, it is raw chicken.

Raw bones are OK as they do not splinter. If you are going with a completely raw diet, it should be made up of 80% muscle meat, and 10% each of bone and organs. I can't handle feeding organs, so that's why I will never be 100% raw feeder for my 2.

There are a couple of schools of thought on transitioning over to feeding raw. Some say a slow transition, and another go cold turkey and know that there will be a tranisition period where your dog will have diarreha or soft stool until it gets used to it's new diet.

Myself, I took it slow and started with just a small wing (minus the drummette). At first I had to sear it on high heat on a dry pan for 10 seconds on each side and work up from there until Ginger got used to the taste. Keep in mind that it doesn't smell as strong as kibble, so some dogs won't be interested in it in the beginning.

From the wing, I moved up slowly until I am now at about 5 oz of raw chicken for dinner.

You can start with the pre-made raw since the guess work is done for you. Once you get used to it, buying raw from grocery store will be much cheaper. Keep in mind, when you're starting off, too much bone can cause too firm of a BM or constipation, and too much muscle meat to bone ratio can cause loose or liquidy stool. So adjust accordingly.

Oma's Pride, Stella and Chewy's and a few others are some of the pre-made balanced raw you will find out there in pet stores, or distributors that will deliver to your home, or have distribution locations.

Take a look at the Raw Feeding topic on the forum under Nutrition and Feeding...there's a lot of information for you on raw feeding, including pictures.

Good luck!

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PostSubject: Hobie and his new diet.   Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:08 am

Thank you everybody for the advice. Reading like crazy about raw diet. So far he has had 2 meals and LOVES it.But boy am i getting eyes about it from husband and others they cant wrap their minds around it. but hey its my dog and i do all the work so im giving it a try!
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:28 pm

Your new vet sounds AWESOME! A raw diet really is the best thing you can do for your dog although I'm not one to push people into feeding something they are not comfortable with. Starting out with pre-made raw until you get the hang of things is a great way to get started.

If you haven't read this thread already, I would highly recommend it: Considering a raw diet?


And feel free to check out our raw feeding picture thread and post your own raw feeding pics here:
Raw Feeding picture thread

Good luck on your new endeavor and feel free to ask if you have any questions. If you want, I can PM you the link to a fantastic food forum with TONS of raw feeders and info. Also you should check out the yahoo raw feeders group, there is a link to the group in the "Considering a raw diet?" thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:58 pm

I am so excited Hobie has had 3 meals raw w/ no loose stools or anything. He loves it I was afraid to stop kibble all at once but vet said I can slowly remove kibble or just let him eat so tonight I think was the last time I will mix kibble in his food.My brother had a client who had an allergy dog bad skin and raw completely changed that dog around to perfect health.Can they have any dairy or something that is like ice cream but made for doggies he use to be addicted to Frosty paws.I dont even take this good care of myself! I have checked out alot of the links and discussions and the photos wow lots to sort through! Should i buy Innova Evo for back up food or part of the variety or just skip it and stick to just raw? Guess I need a kitchen scale too? I dont know my vet well enough yet but heres what his card says "Veterinary Medicine and Surgery,Traditional Chinese Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine ,Alternative and Holistic Veterinary Health Care. He is close too I think I lucked out! I am going to check out the books that have been referred to me to my Kindle
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:23 pm

That's awesome he's doing great on raw!!

With his allergies and being on a raw diet, instead of kibble, have you thought of Honest Kitchen? It's dehydrated raw, mixed with fruits and veggies....HK is very versatle that you can feed HK with raw...that way you're eliminating some of the ingredients that may be found in kibble that can cause allergies in dogs...

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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sun May 01, 2011 12:53 am

Glad he is liking the raw food! It really looks like you did luck out on finding an awsome vet that is close to you.

I agree with Claudia, you should look into The Honest Kitchen. They are a great company, and dogs really love their food.
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sun May 01, 2011 11:52 am

Honestly, I would only add THK to Hobie's diet if you are not going to be switching to PMR (prey model raw) completely. Dogs on true PMR diets do not need processed foods like dehydrated or freeze dried raw and really would do better without them. But if you're like some of us who are not comfortable or ready to feed a true PMR diet then supplementing with pre-made frozen raw like what you're currently using or freeze dried/dehydrated raw like Ziwipeak, Stella & Chewy's, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy's, Addiction, or Sojos would be beneficial. But if you're going full PMR then I wouldn't waste your money on freeze dried or dehydrated raw unless you want to use it as a back up like if you forget to take the raw meat out of the freezer or are having someone else feed your dog or if you are traveling.

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PostSubject: hobies face   Sun May 01, 2011 6:08 pm

i think this picture will come up look at this face!
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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Sun May 01, 2011 6:56 pm

oh, poor Hobie!

Please keep this topic updated as you start raw feeding and how Hobie is doing after switching to raw. I'm very interested in his progress and will be watching this topic. A friend of mine has a 13 year old husky that has developed allergies as well. Their vet wants to put Juneau on Atopica and that would $200 for Rx. They want to do allergy tests to find out what specifically he is allergic to, but that's also money on top of Atopica.

I told them about switching to grain-free or raw and they're not sure they want to go raw. When I told them about Hobie, they would like to hear how he progresses, so I'd be very interested (for them and myself for information) on Hobie does on a raw diet.


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PostSubject: Re: Atopic dermatitis   Mon May 02, 2011 10:56 am

Wow, I would have bet the house that was ZRD from looking at the photo. Keep us posted if the food change helps.
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