A forum for owners of the Siberian Husky.
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterRegisterLog in
Congratulations Kenzi and Jenn!, our July HOTM winners! HOTM - August : TBA!
Husky of the Month
Congrats Kenzi and Jenn,
our July HOTM Winners!
Dog Days!





Thanks to all for this month's entries!
Forum Rules
1. Here we prefer clarity to agreement. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on a topic; here we prefer to talk out our differences in a respectful manner to ensure mutual understanding and respect.
2. Read the Stickies and Announcements. Each sub-forum may have specific rules which trump the Forum Rules in cases where there may be conflicting information. Read the rules of each board before you post so that you are clear on the expectations of the staff.
3. Respect ALL Staff and Admins. These people volunteer of their time and MUST be respected as well as their word adhered to. They are responsible for maintaining a free, open, clear and organized forum. Anyone found to be openly undermining any official ruling by a staff member will be warned.
4. Signatures: One picture only and no links. Images: To keep the forum looking neat and tidy, we ask that members insert just one picture only in their signatures. The picture should be no more than 200x500 pixels and should be of an appropriate subject, for example, your dogs and their names. Should you need assistance creating an appropriate signature, please PM an Admin and we would be happy to help! This is to ensure that signatures remain a welcome addition to our forum instead of a cumbersome distraction. Links: Hyperlinks in signatures--unless to a personal blog or photo stream of your dogs (like Flckr or Piscasa, for example)--are strictly prohibited. Please PM a staff member with any questions or concerns regarding this rule.
Rescue Spotlight
Our current rescue spotlight is:

Tails of the Tundra Siberian Husky Rescue!

Top Dog Website Award Winner!

Top Website
for
Siberian

Huskys


Share
 

 Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
kodathehusky
Newborn
Newborn
kodathehusky

Female Join date : 2019-02-27
Location : Florida

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyWed Apr 24, 2019 4:13 pm

My pup knows he is supposed to go outside, or on a pee pad if it is an emergency. However, lately I've been having bad experiences and I'd just like to share this morning's dilemma and am wondering if it is spite based.

We have a gate up in the back of our house, so Koda has access to 3 rooms but not the whole house because he does not get along with my other animals and I don't think he ever will honestly. (I do take him out from behind the gate for play time and exercise every day. He gets a fair share of roaming the house and we let him roam the entire house and keep the others in one room when we leave the house.)

Anyway, he has the worst separation anxiety i've seen in a dog. If I leave him on the other side of the gate and he can't see me, he screams. If he can see me, he screams anyway. If I leave him in my backyard and go in the house for a minute, he screams (and scratches up the back patio screening), even if he can see me. Any situation where he can not jump on me and is unable to reach me, even if he can see me, he will scream and howl for the entire time.

Most of the times I will leave him and come back to a mess on the floor in the room with the pee pads, but it is always next to them!
The worst situation is that he has started to hate being behind the gate, so I feel like he keeps going back there out of spite. I wake up and bring him outside to go potty every morning and lately he hasn't been pooping, one morning I sat out there from 7 am to 8:45 am and he did not go. The second I bring him in, I turn my back for a second and he went all over the floor!

This morning, I sat out there for about an hour with him and he peed 2 or 3 times, but no poop. I bring him back in after that hour and I gave him his breakfast. I thought he was eating, so when I went to get him fresh water, I come back and he is mid pooping in the room across from the room that I gave him his breakfast in. The second he saw me he ran around and knew what he was doing was bad. I took him outside immediately as I caught him. He started resuming going outside, I sat out there for a few minutes and brought him into the patio when I was sure he was done. He laid down and had his head down (which he does when he knows he did something bad) and I left him on the back patio while I cleaned it up. I brought him back in to behind the gate again, and showed him his food and water. I temporarily left to tell my mom the whole story, and I come back and he pooped AGAIN! All of this in the span of 20 minutes! Right in between the pee pads too.

I'm not sure what I can do, he does this at night too, is it spite? Whenever I go to bed he will poop in that room right after I fall asleep(not sure when, but in the middle of the night. It started once I stopped letting him sleep in bed with me.) and I'll be up at 2 am cleaning it.

I don't know what to do!
Back to top Go down
aljones
Senior
Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyWed Apr 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Okay, Payton, you're not going to like what I have to say but ... well, you're young enough to learn the right way of handling things.

First, your dog is a DOG, the emotions that we humans have toward others humans very seldom come across in dog terms.  For example they know fear, they don't know anger; they know love, they don't know jealousy (a form of desertion, separation); they know when they've done something that will get them punished, they don't know guilt.

Google "Do dogs do things out of spite"( I already have, just click on the link ) and of the responses, I liked this one best because it answer several parts to that question.

Secondly, you got this dog as a puppy so any behaviours it has are those that you've taught him - either directly (Set, Stay, etc) or indirectly.  One of my quotations is "Raise the puppy the way you want your dog to become."  A sweet cuddly puppy doesn't naturally develop separation anxiety - unless you shower it with attention every time it cries or pick it up and cuddle it 'just because.'  You're telling the puppy that you'll be there every time it has any need - which isn't realistic, you have school (probably) and others here have jobs so a puppy needs to be raised to understand that there are times when it's on its own.  

Third, as @Amymeme has often expressed - this dog has too much freedom.  It couldn't take a dump it you were right with him.  As soon as he squatted, you'd have him out the back door, no?!  (( Amy where is the set on your dog thread, I can't find it? )) Payton, take a look at this link where he describes a bad situation (much like yours) and some guidelines on how to fix them. ( He also sells a book, but read the blog entry and ignore the book - we can help there )

One of the first things I do with any of my dogs when they start getting out of hand is to resort to hand feeding.  It teaches them - very quickly - who is the boss (well, at least it teaches them who has the food!) and how they have to act to get fed.  Hand feeding every meal for a week normally gets their attention!

Control where they can go - and a puppy with three rooms (did I read that right?) to play in unsupervised is just a problem waiting to happen - as you're finding out.  Tethering a puppy / young dog to you so that you know what they're doing is one of the best ways for you to be able to act when the situation demands.

You're young and you have a young puppy who can be a happy companion for a long time in your life ... but it's going to take a lot of serious effort on your part to set the rules by which you expect him to live - and then make sure that everyone in the family goes along with these rules.  It does no good if you hand feed him if someone else in the family gives him all the food he wants whenever he wants.  

Good luck ....
Back to top Go down
Lostmaniac
Teenager
Teenager
Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 4:00 pm

Im on the spite boat. I realize most things people attribute to dogs stems from their own human emotions but sometimes i really do wonder. When squirt was young if we left her in the camper i would come home to poop on my pillow. Not my hubbys pillow and i came to the conclusion the reason it was my pillow was because i was the only one that drove. Thankfully it stopped when she was 2.
Seperation anxiety is something ive come across with multiple dogs and had multiple fixes depending on the dog and the situation. Spider has extremely bad seperation anxiety that partially was fixed by keeping splinter with her and part was fixed with cameras. We've gotten it to 1.5 hours before she goes bonkers. It took alot of work a destroyed bathroom and 4 years but we're getting there. I had to learn that unless she is destoying something or in danger of hurting herself or splinter i just had to wait it out. Sometimes doing nothing is the best way. And when spider was kodas age she was in a pen or the same room as us. To this day its not 100% safe to let her have the run of the house because if she thinks i wont notice all rules go out the window.
Back to top Go down
kodathehusky
Newborn
Newborn
kodathehusky

Female Join date : 2019-02-27
Location : Florida

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 4:35 pm

Thank you everyone. The reason he has access to 3 rooms (and no crate) is because my mom has only owned smaller dogs and she thinks it's mean to keep him locked up all the time. Since he keeps going in one specific room, I've been trying to follow him into that room whenever he wanders in there, and bringing him outside if he seems like he is about to go.

As for the hand feeding part, my dad and I constantly tell my mom not to give Koda people food but she doesn't listen and feeds him whenever she can, despite my dad and I yelling at her not to.

For what you said about not naturally developing separation anxiety, he has been like this since the day we brought him home. I think it may be the breeder, Koda was her favorite puppy and they seemed like they babied him and carried him around everywhere. I'm not sure... I try to leave him and let him cry it out but my mom hates the noise and tells me to go pay attention to him so he shuts up.

I honestly think he needs a crate Sad but like I said my mom is against it.
Back to top Go down
TwisterII
Senior
Senior
TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 pm

Your mom is going to create a terror. Is she okay with what what Koda does? If she says no then she needs to understand that the behavior is going to continue until everyone in the house takes a consistent front on training and treatment. When she doesn't listen she undermines your work and makes it worse. Maybe try to talk her into doing it your way for a month and see how it goes. She has to adhere to the rules. If she will for at least a month you will see change and then maybe she will open her eyes to the need of doing things a certain way for the benefit of the dog and the household. If she is okay with him pottying in the house to the extent she is unwilling to change her ways then maybe she should get to clean up after him. I know, hard to pull that on the parents, but nothing opens a person's eyes to the error of their ways like when the ways directly impact them.

_________________
Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Egwab0VPotty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Egwam5Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) N37SqqdPotty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) N37Sm5Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) XcwxC0CPotty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Xcwxm5
Back to top Go down
aljones
Senior
Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Payton, rereading what I wrote, I realized I laid it all on you and that wasn't fair, I'm sorry.  

@TwisterII made a good comment and I don't have anything to add to that.  Just wanted to apologize for coming down so hard.
Back to top Go down
kodathehusky
Newborn
Newborn
kodathehusky

Female Join date : 2019-02-27
Location : Florida

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 9:06 pm

It's okay! I'll try to talk to my mom about it and hopefully she understands. I'll try to take some of your advice as well. Smile
Back to top Go down
Lostmaniac
Teenager
Teenager
Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptyThu Apr 25, 2019 10:35 pm

Payton awhile ago i asked about the small dog and was it running the house and was it trained etc. And the initial post says it all. What your mom doesnt realize is with a little dog people laugh with a husky sized or bigger dog your setting yourself for a disaster and potentially a lawsuit. With the crate ots not only about keeping the dog contained but it gives them a sense of safety that goes back to den instinct. You need to figure out how to get the whole family on the same page or things will just get worse
Back to top Go down
Shepsky13
Teenager
Teenager
Shepsky13

Male Join date : 2017-11-03
Location : North Carolina, USA

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptySat Apr 27, 2019 12:01 am

Whoa, I feel confused just reading your post so I think your dog must be confused too!

I think you need to start again at ground zero. Your dog has too much freedom and when inside, should be tethered to you or crated for now...he can have more freedom again once he is housetrained. Rush him outside if he shows signs of needing to go, and when he goes, give lots of praise and treats!!

A regular feeding / sleeping/ wAlk schedule helps a lot too. ( For instance, my dog almost always poops in the first 10 minutes of his first morning walk...he eats dinner about the same time every day and always starts his first walk around 7am, so there is very little guessing or surprise involved! )

The potty pads in the house are confusing for dogs...why do you need to use? Can somebody take him out during the day if the time stretch is too long for him to hold it? Once he has gone there, it smells like his potty to him...I would clean it good with enzyme cleaner, get rid of pads, close off that room for now...break the bad habit...

Anyway I would think about what needs to be done, make a plan...and then make a fresh start!

You can start working on separation anxiety...try leaving some bits of kibble or a stuffed Kong in his area, walk out to get the mail or take out trash, come in. When he is ok with that and seems to be enjoying his treats when you are gone, try stepping out, staying a bit longer, and coming back. Coming back needs to be casual, like you actually just went and took out the trash...nothing to get worked up about. He may feel anxious as you start lengthening the time gradually, but always act like it was nothing...you just “took out the trash”, what’s the big deal here. ( Sorry if this sounds too “simple” but actually I trained my dog this way, it worked for him.)




Back to top Go down
Lostmaniac
Teenager
Teenager
Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptySat Apr 27, 2019 8:02 am

I came across a mag on sibes at tractor supply the other day. The cover was an article on separation anxiety which makes me think its a breed problem. We havent really solved spiders seperation anxiety we just figured out how to manage it. Im also retired/disabled so not in the same situation as you. The reason we focused on the truck as opposed to the house is everything is atleast 50 miles away so the mailbox trick doesnt work. We started crate training but due to a series of problems couldnt afford one the next size up when spider outgrew the smaller crate. Its probably my biggest regret that i didnt continue with the crate. But what about one of thoes doggy playpens? Its not a crate but keeps them contained in a small area. I know its hard to put your foot down against your mom at 16 i have a hard time doing it at 34 from a different continent but if everyones on a different page about your dog your dog will end up with problems

@shepsky13 schedules are great until the dog decides 4am is time to poop. every 4am if i dont get up spider poops on the floor. I get up early but not 4am, not since i worked with race horses amd had to be at the track at 415am. Still getting up early beats stepping in poop in the dark
Back to top Go down
Shepsky13
Teenager
Teenager
Shepsky13

Male Join date : 2017-11-03
Location : North Carolina, USA

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptySat Apr 27, 2019 12:23 pm

@Lostmaniac

Yep, I did hear that it is a breed trait (Sibes don't like to be alone)! Ditto for shepherds (the other half of my dog). So I was worried that my dog would get it! That's why I started with 30-second disappearances, working up to 30-minute disappearances. He's never alone all day though, because I work from home. He had "garden-variety anxiety" about my leaving though. I know some dogs have it at a really deep severe level, destroy things, need meds, etc. (My dog would howl/whine, but once he understood that he just has to wait and I will always be back, he was able to settle down.)

On the scheduling - for pottytraining, I took him out every 2 hrs then every 3 hrs then got up to 5 hrs regularly ... so we go out morning, afternoon and a short one before bed. ( Our family runs like clockwork...busstop by 7:47, husband off to work by 8:15, track pickup at 4:30, Science Olympiad pickup on Thursdays by 4:00, dinner around 6:30, music lesson at 6 on Mondays, etc etc...so everybody is on a schedule, even the Dog! I guess if he pooped at 4am, that would go in the schedule too!  Smile  How horrible though! I would probably stagger up, let him out in backyard, stagger back to bed and go back to sleep...ugh!

Anyway for the OP...I only know what worked for my dog, and it was rather systematic teaching of things (i.e. for separation, leaving for 30 seconds working up to 30 minutes. for potty training, going out every 2 hrs and working up to 5 hrs). And agreed that any"system", however it is set up, has to be a family-wide system...hope things can get better with Koda!

PS And I back you up on the letting him cry it out! Once he's Quiet, you can return and give him a treat and tell him he is being a Good Boy.

PPS I'm a mom too, my daughters are 14 and 18...you sound very responsible, taking care of a dog is a big job! I don't think either of my girls could be trusted to take care of a dog on their own.
Back to top Go down
amymeme
Senior
Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) EmptySat Apr 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Al - here is the sit on your dog exercise: http://caninelifeskills.com/sit-on-the-dog-exercise/

Yup. Waayyy to much freedom. Instead of 3 rooms, I would suggest, to start, tether the dog to you or to something sturdy next to you when you are in the room with him. If you can't be in the room, then, take him out for a quick piddle/poop opportunity than put him in a crate. This is going to be difficult if your mom objects. Cause puppy is gonna yowl, screech, scratch, dig, whine...until you come get him out because everyone is exasperated with the noise (I know, I live with a human with similar proclivities) Then, puppy learns that all his screechy antics get him what he wants.

My suggestion? Is there a time when your Mom is not home for at least an hour or two and you are home alone with puppy? If so, here's my suggestion. Get a bunch of towels, fold in half lengthwise and roll up, secure with elastic band. You've just made a bonker. Get a bunch of cheese or lunch meat or hotdog, cut into pea sized bits. Put pup in the crate. You sit nearby. Read, peruse your phone, whatever. Do NOT look at or engage pup in any way. When pup starts his opera, throw a bonker at the crate. That should startle him quiet for a minute or so. When he starts again. Another bonker. Once you get about 2 minutes of quiet, give him a piece of cheese through the crate. Return to your chair. Repeat. Gradually increase the quiet time required for the treat. Be prompt with the bonker for opera.

A trainer I follow just got himself a new puppy. Here is video showing using a bonker to stop crate yowling. Notice - he is using rolled up socks for his bonkers - maybe easier than a bunch of towels!

https://www.facebook.com/TheGoodDogTraining/videos/2055772131144607/?t=3

And...you can't go wrong following this guy, using his free training videos. Maybe even ordering his DVD for training.

https://thegooddog.net/photos-videos/
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)   Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety) Empty

Back to top Go down
 

Potty Training Help (Spite/Separation Anxiety)

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

 Similar topics

-
» Rumor: Jedi Training Academy with Yoda?
» Training squash on a ladder trellis
» spacing of seeds
» Les petites déprimes...
» Pole Beans and Sugar Snap Peas

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
It's a Husky Thing - Siberian Husky Forum :: Advice and Discussion Forums :: General Discussions-