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 Handling prey drive/people excitement?

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KareBear
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PostSubject: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:01 am

Hey guys,

I'm sure this must be somewhere already but I looked and couldn't find it, so I apologize in advance.

The other night my boyfriend was taking Aevyn out of the apartment and came across a lady in the stairwell that had a bunny in her arms. Aevyn caught on immediately and it was very difficult for even my boyfriend to get him under control (thank god it wasn't me, I don't want to know what he'd do to that bunny.) He was jumping and pulling like a maniac - no manners at all! And this really scares me - what happens when I run into someone like this? AND, what happens when he's full grown and we run into something like this?

Also, sometimes on our walks Aevyn will be a perfect gentlemen and ignore people as we pass. But sometimes he will try to jump up on them and if we're in the elevator he'll jump on people as well. I always apologize and explain that he's trying to learn his manners but I get (as I'm sure we all have) "Oh he's just a baby still." and as we all know - huskies don't stay babies and they wont like it when he's full grown.

My trainer had said that when he's in a situation where he'll jump to step on his leash so he can't. And, in theory, this works - but when we're on our walks and I have people coming towards me I don't have time to set this up, nor can I do it when we're in elevators or leaving the building.

He's alright when people walk up to us slowly and ask if they can pet him, because I have time to set up and explain that he must be sitting before they can continue to approach him. But with people who don't want to pet him (much to his disliking, I'll add) and just keep walking towards us I just don't know what to do. No

Any suggestions?
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SabakaMom
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:30 am

Of course, your story is the same as ours! You are correct that standing on the leash works very well IF you have time to set that scenario up. We are trying to teach the commands "no jumping" and "leave it". "No jumping" is still rather disasterous... but he is rocking the "leave it" command! During training I can roll treats in the floor in front of him and when instructed to "leave it" he will ignore them. On walks, when he focuses on other people or squirrrels or birds or trash... the "leave it" seems to be working as well. Other dogs are still a huge problem... Rolling Eyes and small girls in purple Barbie Jeeps... Rolling Eyes perhaps one day he will learn better manners!

I have heard that we should be purposefully exposing them to large crowds of people while they are young. I think it's some form of desensitization training. A friend who trained a therapy dog walked that dog around the perimeter of the mall daily to desensitize him to people. We went to alot of kids' sporting events this spring and I'm not sure my husky is ready to ignore people...

Good luck!!
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jbealer
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:12 pm

well the one thing that i do when we come across a cat or squirrel or bunny is to pull them the other direction or if its really bad and they will not stop jumping i will pull them in on the leash grab the collar and straddle them and sit on them to make them sit and i stay like that till they calm down.

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MelissaI
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:30 pm

Wow does this sound familiar! All of this = KODY! He's worse when he sees other dogs. He jumps up HIGH like a crazy dog and starts barking and crying and pulling me. People think he wants to attack the other dog, but I'm like NO NO he just wants to play, but I'm so sorry. He's a bit crazy Rolling Eyes I have to grab him by the collar and tell him to sit. Not easy, but I can handle him.

Oh, and he's not getting the leave it thing either! I mean, he'll leavce it while in training, but that goes totally out with window with anything else. GRRRRRR!
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KareBear
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:22 pm

I've found Aevyn will 'leave it' when its like - he's super distracted by a leaf he thought was something he could eat, or there's chicken bones on the sidewalk and he's not allowed to have them. (Dont ask me why, I run into this all the time)

However if its anything really interesting (like people/people with bunnies) it doesn't even get to him. And I'd hate for people to think I have a vicious dog or something when all he wants to do really is say hello. He's a sweetheart, but in 6 months when he's not obviously a puppy anymore people aren't going to see him that way.

He gets plenty of socialization - took him to the beach today, for example, and there he didn't jump on anyone (Although he did stick is nose in their face) but its so random with him. Sometimes he's got manners like you wouldn't believe, other times its like I've never put an ounce of training into him. And he goes to the dog park multiple times a week.

There has to be a better solution then just grabbing his collar and forcing him to pay attention. I can see people still sticking their nose up at that when he gets older and making comments about training. : /
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26nikita
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:17 pm

I have the exact same issue with Willow. I have noticed that once the initial meeting is over, she calms down but I have a hard time getting people to wait until she's calm first because like you said, they excuse it cause she is still a puppy and will come over to her even when I ask them not to. Very frustrating.
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Koda
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:54 pm

Ugh. I'm still working on this with Koda. Koda is unbelievable in large crowds of people. We took him to Niagara Falls one Memorial Day Weekend and there were TONS of people there and Koda was a SAINT. I could NOT have been prouder! Little kids running up to him, people EVERYWHERE... and he was perfect.

He does well at daycare too... I'm thinking it's the OVER-stimulation. The problem is... when it's one-on-one or it's easy to focus on just a few things, he's nuts and it's very hard to control. He also learned jumping from Hailey and he feeds off her excitement. Whereas she will calm down around people though and knows her place in the pack, Koda does not.

Once I figure out what works, I will share, but I am still working on this myself. I intend to step up the "Leave it" command, which Koda does WONDERFULLY for treats, but doesn't carry it over to people or animals much. Sorry I can't be more help, but just know that you're not alone.

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jbealer
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:03 pm

leave it works on things of little value, me saying LEAVE IT while Sierra had a dead, flatten, dried bird in her mouth last night on our walk did not go so well!!! i had to touch that thing.. ewwww. i need to start having wipes on me while walking for all the shit i pull out of her mouth that she picks up! now if its paper or wrapper or something she drops it when told... these huskies always keep you on your toes!

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jalepeno
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 pm

OMG, Bodhi tried to eat a slug on a walk. I tried to get it out of his mouth. He wouldn't let me have it and swallowed most of it. Then the fun started! When it anesthetized his mouth and tongue, he tried to rub it off the ground. He was not happy on most of that walk, shaking his head and licking his lips. But he hasn't picked up a slug since.
Now when I say "Leave it," I think he associates it with the slug.
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KareBear
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:15 am

I actually have hand sanitizer from bath and body works attached to my leash. They have these great rubbery things that hold the little bottles. Only like $1.50, and it keeps me from feeling sick whenever we come across things on our walks.

But its good to know I'm not the only one who has to worry about this. I was a little afraid that maybe at 6 months he should be past this - but if its something we're going to be fighting with for much longer I'm even more worried. No

Aevyn's done very well with his other training. He can stay staring down his dinner for ages, which I thought was impressive enough but... I'd rather him be excited to eat his dinner then be excited to eat someones rabbit. >_< He would snap at the cages at the petstore we visit, and we've corrected him everytime so he knows its not alright. He's a saint with our cats. I guess I expected him to behave a little better.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:21 pm

So this is the closest thread I could find that is similar to our situation. Klaus absolutely loves other dogs, if there are other dogs around he doesn't even notice me or anyone else.

When we go to the pet store the second he sees another dog that isn't in his reach he starts SCREAMING in excitement (super embarrassing), it's such an unpleasant high pitched noise you can hear it throughout the entire store Embarassed And oh my goodness the pulling... we've had an easy walk harness for some time now and it no longer helps, he's still able to pull enough to where he perches up on his hind legs. Over forty pounds now at 6 months it's beginning to get harder and harder to control (starting to think it's prong collar time). This same excitement happens when we're out on walks. I've never tried the stepping on the leash method, I'll have to start. "Leave it" works well when treats are involved but not when we're out of the house. He has tunnel vision when we're out and about. He walks okay if there are no distractions but if there are I cannot get his focus on me. If I need to grab his collar to get him to sit he's actually snipped at my hands a couple of times. Not exactly aggressive... but more so an annoyance bite like "I'm busy stop touching me". Most of the time I will avoid walking past other people with their dogs because Klaus will automatically jump on them assuming they'll want to play without even the chance for a hello sniff, which annoys a lot of dogs. He does great at the dog park or in a yard when he's off leash with no limitations.

We're meeting with my friends new pup on Friday she's an Australian Shepard only 12 lbs, and we plan on socializing the two (he will be on leash) but I just fear he will just want to jump all over this poor little girl and that will be the end of our play date Neutral

Just wondering if any of you have advice on if you've overcome your struggles ?
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:07 pm

Have you tried corrections with Klaus?  If so, how so?

The problem a lot of people have with Leave It, why it doesn't work, is that it asks a dog to Not do something.    If you're not addressing that something directly, then the dog has no reason Not to do it.  You can avoid that something or offer something incompatible with that something,  but the desire for that something is left unaddressed.

So you are going to have to start directly addressing the leash reactivity for other dogs and people to change it, it's really that simple.   Believe it or not, dogs are not happy to be lunging and impulsively wanting things they can't have.  They are constantly fighting their wants against your wants and that causes stress, anxiety,  and sometimes aggression.  

You can certainly work on other contextual little things that will make walking on leash more mutually enjoyable for you both:

-waiting for calmness prior to clipping leash
-not allowing him to go out the door prior to release
-heeling

But for the level of reactivity you're seeing you need to address it head on.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:10 pm

Also, what do you walk Klaus on? As in type of collar or harness or...?
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:46 pm

@mssuchy wrote:
we've had an easy walk harness for some time now and it no longer helps, he's still able to pull enough to where he perches up on his hind legs. Over forty pounds now at 6 months it's beginning to get harder and harder to control (starting to think it's prong collar time).

hey buddy
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:01 pm

Aha, sorry I missed that.

Haley, if you would like some prong collar resources, please let either Jen (wpskier222) or myself know.

We can definitely help you.

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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:21 pm

Right now we have him in the Easy Walk harness which clips at the chest. However he's been pulling on it regardless and now that he is gaining height I think it might be getting slightly loose on him. We really want to switch to the prong collar, I think it would be a more effective tool for him I just need to figure out how to get it fitted properly. I've read several threads on here on it and it seems to work.

I'm a little unsure of what you mean by addressing it head on? Walking past another dog?

Since we first got him we've always done the turn around method for leash training. If he pulls we turn around and walk the opposite way and praise him whenever he is walking by our side. Walking by our side lasts maybe a minute tops. It's been a very long process. He waits great for release at our back door and back gate. I'll open it, step out, tell him to wait and then once I say okay he'll follow.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:23 pm

@seattlesibe wrote:


Haley, if you would like some prong collar resources, please let either Jen (wpskier222) or myself know.  

We can definitely help you.  


I'm definitely interested in any information. I've looked at as many threads as I could. I've watched some of the videos posted on here as well. I know he still needs training with it and that it's a tool not a permanent solution. He does most of the correcting, if he does anything I just use very very slight movement in the wrist. I also saw someone posted a link where you can order a collar with a release buckle which is probably what we'd want. My main concerns are the sizing, I want it to fit properly and a little worried of what happens if he does decide to lunge at another animal/squirrel out of excitement.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:57 pm

@mssuchy wrote:

@seattlesibe wrote:


Haley, if you would like some prong collar resources, please let either Jen (wpskier222) or myself know.  

We can definitely help you.  



I'm definitely interested in any information. I've looked at as many threads as I could. I've watched some of the videos posted on here as well. I know he still needs training with it and that it's a tool not a permanent solution. He does most of the correcting, if he does anything I just use very very slight movement in the wrist. I also saw someone posted a link where you can order a collar with a release buckle which is probably what we'd want. My main concerns are the sizing, I want it to fit properly and a little worried of what happens if he does decide to lunge at another animal/squirrel out of excitement.

Ami used to lunge all the time...damn voles! Never even yelped, no punctures, no abrasions. THe side release buckle herm sprenger prong is available at leashes by design (but I've never ordered from them - mine came from the shelter I got Ami at.)
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:38 pm

All I mean by addressing it head on is dealing directly with the problem.

So if your dog is having leash reactivity to dogs, you have to address that directly as it happens.  You can't avoid dogs all the time and you can't teach your dog to do something incompatible that prevents that reaction.  Neither teaches your dog that a reaction to a dog is wrong and not allowed.  

If you have your dog on a prong collar and he lunges at a dog or reacts, you would simply pop the leash, engage the prong,  and get him back in line to you. You don't need to say anything or react yourself.  In fact, it's best if you don't.  Having a prong collar makes every single little moment a teaching opportunity.  You will be enabled to give your dog information at any moment,  telling him Yes or No through the collar. It is simply a communication tool that allows you to have balance between agree/disagree, Yes/No, Good/Bad.

you are going to have to have your dog heeling if you want to use a prong collar properly.  if you have him walking out in front of you you are inviting him to be impulsive and have too much freedom and you will have to start cranking really hard on the prong collar to counter his escalating behavior.  that's not what you want to do because the best way to use a prong collar is simple little gentle split-second checks that prevent behaviors, you don't want to be constantly countering behaviours.

Your goal with a reactive dog like yours is prevention,  not counteracting.
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:52 pm

I would also strongly recommend against the prong eith the quick release and the buckle. Not necessary at all and it will change the action of the collar and presents unnecessary safety risks.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:57 pm

So then just a regular Herm Sprenger prong collar would suffice? I just worry about being able to get it on/off. My cousin has a GSD when she lived with us, she used a prong collar and I had such a hard time getting it apart to put on. That's my reason for wanting the buckle. And yes I do agree that prevention would be best. I absolutely want him walking beside me rather than out in front. I know prongs can be added since he is still growing but I need to figure out what size he needs right now...how tightly is it supposed to fit?
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:25 pm

@seattlesibe wrote:
I would also strongly recommend against the prong eith the quick release and the buckle.  Not necessary at all and it will change the action of the collar and presents unnecessary safety risks.


Jeff - the quick release buckle, as I have read, has had unintended releases. My DIL has a quick release on her non- HS - it is a pain in the ass.

The side release buckle that is on mine - really, it does not change the way it works, and I've never had an inadvertent release. It is ever so much easier on my hands, I give it a little tug after connecting and can verify positive lock.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:52 pm

So then Amy, is there a difference between the one you have and one with a quick release buckle?

I was thinking if the release buckle ever did fail I could have a leash like this one:

http://leerburg.com/5131.htm
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:28 pm

@mssuchy wrote:
So then Amy, is there a difference between the one you have and one with a quick release buckle?

I was thinking if the release buckle ever did fail I could have a leash like this one:

http://leerburg.com/5131.htm

Yes - the quick release buckle is a scissors sort of thing. The side relase buckle is the sort of metal buckle you see on lots of collars.

Here are some pictures if you scroll down the page:

http://www.leashesbydesign.com/ProngCollars/ProngCollars.html
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seattlesibe
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PostSubject: Re: Handling prey drive/people excitement?   Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:51 pm

They should fit snug just below the ears, unable to slide lower. You should be able to get your fingertip between a prong and the dog's skin. It can be tricky to size with lots of fur, but you'll get it. If it's pressing into the skin normally resting it's too tight.

Look up intro to prong collars by solidk9training or the good dog on YouTube.
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