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 Poop CRAZY!!!!

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JillC
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PostSubject: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:55 am

Hi all, been awhile and once again I'm ripping my hair out on poop patrol. Question is, to switch food again, or not? Evie is 6 months old now and has been on TOTW for a couple months. She's done the best on this food, tried all flavors and she tolerated the Wetlands one best. Since she was spayed 2 weeks ago we're on a downhill slide again. I suspect she initially picked up a bug at the vet or could it be the result of a new bag of food? 2 days after she came home she started with diarrhea and an urgency to go often, producing very little. I immediately stopped the pain meds thinking that could have been the culprit, but the runny poop continued days after it would be out of her system. To top things off, a BBQ'ed chicken wing slipped out of my son's hand during her week of sickies and Evie swallowed the bone whole. Then came mucous and blood streaks in the poop. The entire time, she was eating/drinking and acting fine. I was still worried sick- didn't know if it was the tummy bug or the bone wreaking havoc. She did pass pieces of the bone within a couple days and a trip to the vet showed no parasites, giargia or coccidia and no obstructions. The vet sloshed her belly around and you could hear all kinds of liquid and gas in there. He suspected colitis and prescribed 250mg of metrinidazole twice a day and immodium. I gave her the 1st dose of immodium and a couple hours later she was worse-explosive liquid diarrhea. Called the vet and he said try the 2nd dose in 8 hours-may have been that she had just gotten worse b4 she got better. Gave it to her and she blew again. She must have had a reaction to the immodium. affraid ANYWAY! Poops are "better" now after being on the metrinidazole (only 2 pills left), but I'm worried she's gonna go soft again as soon as the pills run out. Her stool is still very light colored, kinda formed, but mushy. What she's producing isn't making me want to throwm my poop party LOL! What exactly is a "normal" poop supposed to look like? I'm laughing, but at my wits end with the bowel issues with my poor girl. Could TOTW be too rich for her? A bad bag? Should I try a different flavor again or new food altogether? Wondering if something with a little less protein in it or maybe oatmeal or rice in it could help her. I know many Sibes don't do well with rice. I do give her a little canned pumpkin in her food sometimes and it helps a little, but not much. She's deprived in that she gets hardly no treats other than baby carrots- they're the only thing it seems that doesn't make her go soft. What food would you try next?
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arooroomom
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:52 am

Some people like to take things back to very basics when there's an issue with their tummies. A bland diet of rice and boiled chicken or scrambled egg. Some dogs don't tolerate rice, mine are fine with it. Once her system is calmed down you can reintroduce the TOTW. If she's been doing fine on it, I wouldn't switch to something else (meaning another brand) just yet. Her tummy needs a break. FWIW my dogs did best on wetlands as well.

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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Is she currently on a bland diet? If not that's what I'd have her on until you see normal BMs again. By normal I mean a solid, formed stool. Not soft or mushy. There are plenty of options for bland diets, I personally prefer scrambled eggs and/or raw or boiled chicken. Boiled eggs, sweet potato, rice, and ground beef are other common suggestions for a bland diet. Beef and rice can be an issue for some so I tend not to recommend them for huskies in general.

If she was doing well on the TOTW before the whole upset I'd be hesitant to think that it's too rich for her all of a sudden. I'd try the bland diet and when she's got solid BM's then go back to introducing the TOTW slowly. If multiple attempts to reintroduce the TOTW set you back then you might try a different food. It'll really be a case of trial and error.

Since she's on Metronidazole, which will have killed all the anaerobic bacteria in her digestive tract, you might want to put her on probiotics to replenish the good bacteria in her gut. You can use something like unflavored, sugar free yogurt if that agrees with her or try a probiotic like Forti-flora for example. Two of my dogs have been on Metronidazole and I truly hate using that stuff. With my sibe, it didn't help his diarrhea one bit and only made him worse. With my chi (Faith) it actually did help her clear her of infection. What helped both of them recover was being on a bland diet before reintroducing food that they normally do well on. Another gal on a different husky forum had a prescription for Metronidazole for her sensitive sibe's diarrhea and it didn't do squat to help her sibe either.

It's possible that it could be that particular bag of food, that's happened to me before with my dogs on a particular bag of Blue Wilderness. The only way to test that theory out would be to try a different bag (make sure it's a different batch) and see how it goes. If that doesn't change the results then you might see about trying a different food.

Depending on your budget, if you're looking for a good kibble I would try something like Orijen puppy. Other puppy kibble options I'd explore would be Fromm, Merrick, and Blue Buffalo/Wilderness puppy.

This is interesting, my sibe does best on the TOTW Wetlands formula as well. Didn't do so hot on the High Prairie or the Pacific Stream formulas.

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JillC
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Thanks Val and Kristina. The thing is, she has NEVER had what I would consider a "solid" stool. Even when she was doing well, she's always been pretty soft. I was doing scrambled eggs and boiled chicken breast and it helped so maybe I'll go back to that for awhile and try the TOTW again like you said after her tummy settles more. I was just concerned she would not be getting enough nutrients if I kept her on the bland stuff for too long. I don't want to be too hasty and just switch brands again b/c we all know we can make things worse switching foods constantly. I think I'll also get a new bag in the house just in case there may be something funky going on with the one I'm feeding her from.

I'm a little familiar with all of the foods you mentioned Val, but Orijen is a bit pricey for us. One of the others may be worth a shot if I can't get her straightened out. Thankfully the Metronidazole is helping, but I hear ya- you never know what you're gonna get when a new med is prescribed for these dogs. I cringe every time! Like I said the Immodium had the complete opposite effect that it was supposed to. I have been giving her plain yogurt in her food and she loves it!

The High Prairie formula was a big NO NO for Evie and the Pacific one seemed very greasy to me so I wonder if that's why she didn't do well on that. Had high hopes that she'd tolerate more than 1 so we could offer some variety in flavors...that takes care of that!

What treats do your dogs do best with? I feel bad and want to give her something yummy that won't blow right through
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:27 pm

The treats I give Ginger and Storm (because Ginger does have a sensitive tummy) are 1 or 2 ingredient treats. They are Grandma Lucys freeze dried chicken, white fish or tuna, or Snack 21 Salmon sushi rolls or fillets (dried, like jerky), or freeze dried sweet potato and trail mix of green beans, sweet potatoes, apples, banana, carrots and beef liver. I'm waiting for the online store to restock the Free Range Dog Nip chicken wrap chews which are bananas, apples or carrots wrapped in chicken breast and cooked at low temps.

I get all their treats from naturalk9supplies.com.

Ginger has some intolerances to chicken and beef in kibble, and she was never good on TOTW Pacific Stream and then some chicken bisciut set her off. I got her solid on a bland diet of eggs and carrots within 48 hours, and when I tried to add 3 tbsp of TOTW to her bland diet, she went soft. I then switch to Orijen and she does great on Orijen, and then eventually found Honest Kitchen which she can tolerate beef in the THK formula when mixed in with the fish formula. So for Ginger, dehydrated raw, freeze dried or raw is what Ginger does well on with different proteins. Other than that, fish is what she can tolerate in the form of kibble in Orijen but not TOTW.

Was Evie's BM ever good on a bland diet?

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JillC
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Thanks Claudia, i order from naturalk9supplies.com so I'll have to try some treats you mentioned. Sounds like they're good enough for us to eat! Honestly I don't think I left her on the bland long enough, but there was an improvement. If i do scrambled eggs and carrots, how much should I give her? She normally eats 3 meals a day. 3/4 cup at each meal. I'm so afraid she won't be getting enough.

It's amazing to me that the slightest variations in the grain free brands can make a world of difference. I just gotta find the right one and figure out what that ingredient may be that's throwing her off. Why did you take Ginger off the Orijen? I'm not familiar with Honest Kitchen
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arooroomom
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:26 pm

Jill, have you thought about a raw diet?

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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:50 pm

Ginger still has Orijen as a topper to her Honest Kitchen (or as we abbreviate it as THK). THK is a dehydrated raw food that you add warm/hot water to rehydrate which makes a wet food. It's human grade and they have grain free formulas. Ginger's base food is THK which allows her more options for proteins as long as they are dehydrated, freeze dried or raw. Ginger seems to do best on Orijen 6 Fish if I had to feed kibble only. So I have Orijen as a kibble option in case feeding THK or raw is inconvenient. I can fee all raw, all THK or all Orijen.

Ginger does have a sensitive tummy when it comes to kibble. And it could be that Evie may also too, and keep in mind that it may not be the ingredient but the cooking or manufacturing process of the kibble that is upsetting Evie's tummy. Same with Ginger...she's not good with TOTW but is great on Orijen. Both have similar ingredients, and they're both fish based. But Ginger will go soft on TOTW but not Orijen.

Ginger was about 58 lbs when I had her on a bland diet and she also ate 3x a day. One meal, she got 4 hard boiled eggs and 1 cup of blanched carrots. Yes, that meant Ginger got 12 eggs a day and 3 cups of carrots! The carrots will come out looking like it went in, but it got her back on track and formed firm BMs by then end of the 2 day.

I kept Ginger on that diet for 4-5 days, and then slowly reduced her bland diet by 25% and added what would be 25% of what she would normally have in kibble in a day. If she went soft, I went back to what it was previous to the change.

It took me about 3 weeks to get her transitioned to Orijen completely.

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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:02 pm

I just wanted to say, Jill, keep in mind that the carrots will do nothing for her nutritionally. They are simply used as a filler to make her feel full, they will come out exactly the way they went in.

Do you know if plain old boiled chicken (boneless) agrees with Evie? I would try an egg and chicken bland diet with her rather than carrots simply because she's a puppy and needs more nutrients than an adult (especially if you have to have her on a bland diet for any length of time). Have you ever given Evie Nutri-Cal? You might supplement that while on a bland diet for calories and vitamins until you get her back on a normal diet...assuming it agrees with her.

FWIW, I have two dogs with sensitive tummies. One of them NEVER has a truly firm stool EVER but she has an extreme case of irritable bowel so just a formed stool is a gift with her! She cannot live without Perfect Form digestive supplement. My sibe also has a sensitive tummy and I feed him dehydrated or freeze dried raw (on days when he's not eating raw). I've always sworn by The Honest Kitchen for sensitive tummies and diarrhea issues, it's always been my "go to" food if any of my dogs ever have stomach upset and/or diarrhea. I've recently been feeding a new (well, new to us) food that my dogs are doing pretty good on, it's the refrigerated pet food called Fresh Pet Select I think. It does contain a little bit of rice which my sibe doesn't ever normally tolerate but he seems to do just fine with the Fresh Pet Select refrigerated food. It's expensive but the dogs LOVE it and they're all doing well on it.

For treats I like to feed single ingredient treats as well such as chicken jerky, duck jerky, pork jerky, beef liver, lamb lung, etc. Other treats I like are freeze dried raw treats that contain animal meat and organ such as Raw Naturals (freeze dried treat). I also use freeze dried raw Stella & Chewy's patties as treats. I've got way too many different treats and foods in my house to mention.

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JillC
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm

Yes, she does ok with boneless boiled chicken breasts. I see what you're saying about the carrots as she eats them raw alot and while they do help give things some form, they are just as they went in. So maybe chicken and eggs is a better bet. I will look into Nutri-Cal too. My head is spinning again, but I really appreciate all of your knowledge about these different foods! Makes me feel less helpless and that I will eventually figure out what works best for her. Oh I will be celebrating that perfect poop if and when it happens! I really think I just haven't found the right food yet and pray it's not something more going on inside. Good to know there are supplements out there though that can help. I'm sure the chicken wing bone is partially to blame for throwing her outta whack more than usual too. She's growing well, 26 pounds and gorgeous so i am bound and determined to get these belly issues figured out.

Kristina, I've read a bit about raw feeding, but am not nearly knowledgeable enough to go there yet. Don't know how hubby would feel about it either, but not to say it's not something to consider down the road.

Gotta say Claudia, Val, everyone- your pups are lucky to have you looking out for them! I'm amazed by your knowledge and how well they're taken care of Cool Though I don't post much, this is my go to place for everything husky. Nice to know you are all out there
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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:42 pm

@JillC wrote:
Makes me feel less helpless and that I will eventually figure out what works best for her. Oh I will be celebrating that perfect poop if and when it happens! I really think I just haven't found the right food yet and pray it's not something more going on inside.
I was exactly where you are back in October or so of last year! I'm all too familiar with celebrating nice poop! I thought I was crazy for doing that, but it's a BIG relief when you finally figure it all out with Evie!

@JillC wrote:
Gotta say Claudia, Val, everyone- your pups are lucky to have you looking out for them! I'm amazed by your knowledge and how well they're taken care of Cool Though I don't post much, this is my go to place for everything husky. Nice to know you are all out there
I've learned most what I know here on the forum, and a lot of guidance from Val!! She is, after all, 'THE' nutritional bookworm - I'm just in training! Smile

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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:01 pm

You'll get there, Jill. Just take it one day at a time and know that we're all here for you if you need us.

I know how frustrating finding the right food can be, with our SUPER sensitive girl (Faith) it took 11 MONTHS to find a food that she could tolerate. Believe me, after 11 months of near constant diarrhea, to say I was ecstatic to find a digestive supplement and food that she could handle would be the understatement of the century! Luckily I don't think you have a dog that is anywhere near as sensitive as Faith.

It's still early yet, you'll find a few foods that she does well on eventually. I know it's hard at the moment when you want everything to work out perfectly, but do try to be patient and take things slow. One of these days you'll be able to look back at your early struggles and be glad that's over and done with!

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MelissaI
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:12 pm

I've totally been there too and thanked god every night for Val and Claudia!!! If it wasn't for you girls my poor Kody's tummy would probably still be messed up!
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Here4thePics
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:35 pm

Anytime a dog goes on antibiotics don't be surprised when they get the sh*t squirts. I see your in the Buffalo, NY area so go to any Rite Aid drugstore and in the vitamin aisle you should be able to find.

Acidophilus (Probiotic Compound) scratch

Or you can just order off their web site. I give it to Adobo every day to take care of her tearing stains, but it really made for digestive problems. Its cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:58 pm

@Here4thePics wrote:


Acidophilus (Probiotic Compound) scratch

Or you can just order off their web site. I give it to Adobo every day to take care of her tearing stains, but it really made for digestive problems. Its cheap.

That helps with tear stains? Mya has them and they drive me insane! Makes her look older than what she is Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:22 pm

@MelissaI wrote:
@Here4thePics wrote:


Acidophilus (Probiotic Compound) scratch

Or you can just order off their web site. I give it to Adobo every day to take care of her tearing stains, but it really made for digestive problems. Its cheap.

That helps with tear stains? Mya has them and they drive me insane! Makes her look older than what she is Evil or Very Mad

http://www.riteaidonlinestore.com/rite-aid-natural-acidophilus-300mg-capsules/qxp75253


Yes it does or at least it has worked for Adobo she had them really bad and I wasn't about to subject her to antibiotics for appearance sake. So after a bit of researching I stumbled across that bit of info and decided to give it a shot. I will mention though it took a long time before the results started showing up I wanted like maybe 5 months before I was satisfied with what was happening. The only reason I didn't give up on it was the fact that I ordered a thousand of them and got free shipping that way.

They're great for the digestive system. In fact anytime I plan on going away someplace I'll start taking one a day about a week before and then during my trip in case I pick up a bug along the way.
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:04 pm

@MelissaI wrote:
@Here4thePics wrote:


Acidophilus (Probiotic Compound) scratch

Or you can just order off their web site. I give it to Adobo every day to take care of her tearing stains, but it really made for digestive problems. Its cheap.

That helps with tear stains? Mya has them and they drive me insane! Makes her look older than what she is Evil or Very Mad

Angels Eyes is a product for tear staining as well if you haven't given it a try.

Here's more about the product: Angels Eyes

I know a lot of people who use Angels Eyes and it works great for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:36 pm

Yes, I agree with the reviews about Angel Eyes but refrained from using this product due to the antibiotic properties of Tylosin. I'll use antibiotics when really needed but taking drugs for something like this seems silly especially since the body will over time develop resistance to what ever gets over used.


Tylosin tartrate is a particular type of antibiotic that is commonly used in a variety of animals, including dogs, cats, cattle, horses and more. This antibiotic serves a wide range of different purposes, but like other antibiotics it is designed specifically to target and kill certain types of bacteria. Without treating these bacteria, your pet may run the risk of developing an infection. In terms of its effects on animals, tylosin tartrate is very similar to erythromycin, another type of antibiotic. Read on for a brief overview of tylosin tartrate use in dogs.

Read more: Tylosin Tartrate for Dogs - VetInfo
http://www.vetinfo.com/tylosin-tartrate-for-dogs.html#b
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:56 pm

Thanks for posting that info, Len! I learned something new today! I don't know much about Angels Eyes, I've never used it or done any research on it. I just know a bunch of people that use it and recommend it. I really don't like that it is an antibiotic.

I'm really curious about the acidophilus, never heard of it being useful for tear staining. Do you have any links to literature on it or could you give us the simple explanation for how it works for tear staining? I am very interested in learning more about this...just to know since I don't have this issue with my dogs...I'm just too curious sometimes. Razz

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MelissaI
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:05 pm

I agree with you both regarding the antibiotics. I'm not too sure that I'd want to give Mya something with an antibiotic for tear stains. I'm going to check out Walgreens or CVS to see if they carry Acidophilus. Worth a try!

Thanks for the info!
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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 pm

@Huskyluv wrote:
Thanks for posting that info, Len! I learned something new today! I don't know much about Angels Eyes, I've never used it or done any research on it. I just know a bunch of people that use it and recommend it. I really don't like that it is an antibiotic.

I'm really curious about the acidophilus, never heard of it being useful for tear staining. Do you have any links to literature on it or could you give us the simple explanation for how it works for tear staining? I am very interested in learning more about this...just to know since I don't have this issue with my dogs...I'm just too curious sometimes. Razz

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2010/january/tear-stain-products-pets-redux

I received a blog post every M-F from Dr. Patty Khuly, when its about dogs its usually quite interesting. PLUS Melissa she is in Miami, FL, so don't break my heart and tell me she's a lousy vet. Sad


http://www.holisticpetinfo.com/conditions/probiotics.htm


http://ebullientfrenchbulldogs.com/GoodBlog/2011/06/30/probiotics-boost-immunity-resolve-tear-stains/

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PostSubject: Re: Poop CRAZY!!!!   Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:50 am

Those links were awesome Len. Thanks! I'm running down to the drugstore to see if I can find Acidophilos (geez, that's hard to spell..lol).

I've never heard of Dr. Khuly, but I just looked her up and she's about 15 minutes away from my house!
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