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 Inflamed Bowel Disease ???

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Andrw2121
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PostSubject: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 4:02 pm

Hi everyone-

Our 7-month-old husky, Kodi, has been dealing with upset stomach issues pretty much since the day we brought him home as an 8-week-old puppy. We have gone through numerous dog foods, tried different supplements like pumpkin, sweet potato and white rice, but his diarrhea always comes back. The last two weeks, we have had a number of pricey visits to the vet with x-rays, blood panels and stool tests and we discovered a second bout with giardia that has been treated. But Kodi continues to have extremely watery diarrhea.

Our vet now recommends we conduct an $800 ultrasound and $1,000 GI scoping to determine if Kodi has inflamed bowel disease , but we've already spent so much that we don't want to throw more money at this issue until we've exhausted all the more reasonable, holistic approaches to resolving his upset tummy. We have an upcoming appointment with a new vet for a second opinion but figured we should turn to the collective wisdom of all the Husky owners on this site for other ideas as well.

When we first brought Kodi home, he was on Nutro chicken, rice, and oatmeal puppy formula. We had read so many great things about Grandma Lucy's on these forums that we wanted to get him on that, so we gradually switched him over to Grandma Lucy's grain-free chicken formula (always using the two week method of part old and part new food) and he seemed to respond favorably. His poops were never super firm, but they held together.

He then contracted giardia at about 10 weeks, which threw his stomach off balance. He got very sick, stopped eating or drinking, and so we rushed him to the vet and started him on meds, and he fully recovered. His poops went back to normal, but I have owned a labrador and Golden retriever and was used to more solid poops than Kodi was passing.

A few months later, we ran into another Husky owner at the dog park, and he suggested trying another protein besides chicken, because his husky couldn't tolerate chicken formulas. I know all dogs are different but thought we'd give it a try. We gradually switched to Grandma Lucy's grain-free venison, but were dissatisfied with the results and noticed that Kodi's stool was becoming less and less firm.

After about 3 months with Grandma Lucy's (2 on chicken, and 1 on venison), and after reading on here that some owners experience slightly less firm stool with Grandma Lucy's, we decided to switch to a kibble formula.

We went with Taste of the Wild after reading several positive reviews on here. We started with the salmon puppy formula and Kodi seemed to firm up. We went through the entire bag and for the most part Kodi maintained firm stools. He did have lots of gas when on the salmon formula, so we got a bag of the prairie puppy formula from Taste of the Wild and gradually switched him over to it.

About three weeks into the new bag, Kodi started having extremely runny stool and would strain to go, and he started going more frequently throughout the day. We figured he had probably caught something and went to the vet. He had giardia again. He was treated, but ever since, Kodi's stool has not firmed up again. We went back to the vet who ran blood work, a diarrhea panel, x-rays, and stool sample.... everything came back normal. We also checked for salmonella, since we had read about the recent dog food recall.

For the past week, Kodi has been on the vet-prescribed HIlls prescription Diet ID gastrointestinal health kibble. After one day, his stool firmed up. Then it went back to watery brown stools and the straining. As it went more and more watery, we became frustrated and figured we should try the boiled chicken and white rice that the vet had recommended as an alternative.

So here we are. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide! I know I've rambled on, but I wanted to make sure we didn't leave anything out in our attempts to deal with his stomach issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi, welcome!

Sounds like quite the issue you have had on your hands. If those are the kibbles you have tried thus far, I would still look into thinking it was a food intolerance of some kind. I'm sure his tummy and intestines are quite the sight right now. I have been through the mill with Rodeo as well.., loose stool constantly with severe abdominal pain as well.

I would look into an adult formula (puppy ones are such a mess, ingredient wise) and go from there. If you are comfortable with raw feeding... That's where I would start. That was the first and only thing thus far Rodeo has been able to handle (natures variety instinct raw venison is where we started.) If not I would try some novel LID kibbles. I would initially start with a food that has just one meat protein source. Great Life grain-free is such a food I can name off the top of my head. I would begin feeding the food with a digestive aid such as perfect form or pumpkin...

Unfortunately tummy issues are for the most part trial and error... I feed raw to all of my dogs so that's what I recommend but I know most aren't informed or may not be comfortable.

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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 4:33 pm

I have a couple of questions.

1.Do you take him to dog parks or any kind of social events where he might interact with other dogs?
2. Does he whine at all during BM's?
3. Does he act otherwise lethargic, depressed, eat less or drink less?

Honestly, we dealt with something similar with Delilah on and off for a few months. Her popp would get runny for no reason and it had mucous in it. We switched her to a bland diet. She got chicken & rice for a while, until the people on the forum suggested sweet potato and then we had Chicken and potato. We kept her on it for 2 weeks. IT gave her digestive system a break and now she is fine. We did that same as you though, constantly bouncing through foods. FWIW, we have switched to Acana now and their BM are steady
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 7:23 pm

mheath0429 wrote:
I have a couple of questions.

1.Do you take him to dog parks or any kind of social events where he might interact with other dogs?
2. Does he whine at all during BM's?
3. Does he act otherwise lethargic, depressed, eat less or drink less?
Those are good questions to start.

If he's acting otherwise normal, I would start with a bland diet. If you are doing chicken and rice and he seems to be doing OK on that, keep him there for 3-4 days. If you're only taking 2 weeks to transition, extend it that to 3-4 weeks. Kody may be one of those that has a very sensitive tummy, so it will take him longer to make the transition.

I went through months of diarreha/soft stool with my female. We tried chicken and rice and after not having a BM for 2 days (she also appeared to strain to go but nothing came out), she finally threw up the rice. So we eliminated ALL grains.

We switched her bland diet to a neutral protein, hard boiled eggs, and added carrots for fiber to 'keep her inside moving' and we knew she liked carrots, so we did blanched carrots added to the eggs. You can use canned no salt green beans instead of carrots if you prefer. Within 2 days, she had normal BMs - easy to pick up, firm but not hard. It was full of carrots but it's a source of fiber to promote healthy BMs. We kept her on this bland diet for 3-4 days before we tried to introduce kibble.

The transition time it took for her was about 3,5 weeks. We added 25/75 mix of kibble to bland diet and kept her at that mix for 3-4 days before we increased it another 25%. If at any time she went soft, we went back to the mix/ratio prior.

We went through several brands of kibble, and through trial and error, we found that she cannot tolerate chicken in kibble form, and does best on fish protein kibble with no grains. However, TOTW Pacific Stream was a no go for her - which we concluded it could be the 'cooking' process that does not agree with her tummy.

In the end, Orijen 6-fish is what we found to be her kibble option. We have since found other, less expensive options, but we continue to keep Orijen as her base.

With Kody, I would probably do the same - bland diet with a neutral protein like eggs and either green beans, green peas or carrots for fiber. If he does well on a bland diet, keep him on it for 3-4 days and stretch out your transition period to at 3-4 weeks. If at any time he starts to go soft, go back to what he was eating that made his BMs normal.

If you do eggs and veggie for your bland diet, to give you a reference, my 50 lb female got 3-4 eggs and 1 cup of veggies (one only - so EITHER green beans, OR green peas, OR carrots), 3 times a day. This will give you 1 source of protein, 1 source of fiber. This will also limit ingredients so you'll easily figure out if there is an issue with either ingredient if Kody tummy goes upset.

If this doesn't work, you may want to try raw, as Kristina recommended. There are pre-made raw foods out there which will get you started to at least figure out if that's what he needs to be on.
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Andrw2121
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 9:15 pm

mheath0429 wrote:
I have a couple of questions.

1.Do you take him to dog parks or any kind of social events where he might interact with other dogs?
2. Does he whine at all during BM's?
3. Does he act otherwise lethargic, depressed, eat less or drink less?

Thanks so much for the quick replies. There has been a lot of options spelled out already for us to experiment with, from the raw food idea and some of the protein and veggie options as well as the kibble brands mentioned.

To answer your questions:

1.) We take Kodi out to dog parks frequently to socialize him with other animals. We also take him for frequent walks since we do not have a backyard. We suspect this is how he picked up his giardia. We have heard from several people that it's common for dogs to step in poop at the dog park and then when they step in the water area, it's easily transmitted when they drink. So we have been trying to keep him away from the water and bringing our own supply.

2.) He doesn't whine during BMs but noticeably strains and sometimes he will squat for up to 30 seconds with multiple squirts.

3.) Two weeks ago he was more lethargic and has definitely been eating less, which is what tipped us off to the giardia initially. His energy has increased tenfold since we medicated the giardia but his appetite comes and goes. He has become a lot more picky with the kibble we have been feeding him which is why we thought about experimenting with other options. He always drinks a lot of water.
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 9:54 pm

Honestly, I would refrain from taking him for at least a month and see if that helps. It was a huge factor with our girl. We didn't have a yard for a while either, so we just had to walk/run her A LOT. It's worth it though, it saved us a lot in vet bills.

If his appetite is waning, I would assume he is disliking the kibble. Let us know if the bland diet helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sat May 12, 2012 10:11 pm

mheath0429 wrote:
Honestly, I would refrain from taking him for at least a month and see if that helps. It was a huge factor with our girl. We didn't have a yard for a while either, so we just had to walk/run her A LOT. It's worth it though, it saved us a lot in vet bills.
Ditto!
If the park is where Kody is picking up giardia, don't take him to the dog park until you have his tummy issues sorted out. It'll be better for him tummy, and on your wallet! You'll need to find other ways to socialize and exercise, but I think it's better than risking him getting giardia often which won't help his tummy.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 2:52 am

Thanks for the advice on the dog parks... I think we will wait a while before returning to one. Luckily there is another husky down the street who can come over to play =)

Kodi has been on the boiled chicken and rice diet since last night. He finally pooped about 10 min ago. After straining for 15-20 seconds, a tiny amount of a gummy like substance came out (sorry to be so graphic). He strained for a few more seconds and then did his paw wipe off dance. This is definitely an improvement over the liquid stools he's had. We are going to continue the chicken and rice for the rest of the weekend and see how he does.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
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mbarnard0429
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 2:55 am

Hey, No Problem. We are all here because we worry about our pups too. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for that.

It wont be an instant fix, but it should help. Was he excited to eat?
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Andrw2121
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 3:00 am

He gobbled it down and then begged for more! His appetite is back for sure. We've been giving him small portions throughout the day to make sure it sits well with him. How much should he be getting on a daily basis? (He is a little over 7 months and weighs 40lbs) Today he's had about 3 cups of rice and 2 cups chicken.

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:56 am

sounds like what my doggy had for a little more than a week or so after getting into something. (running dark poops with mucus). the bland chicken and rice, pumpkin, etc didn't really help.
Since his energy level was normal, the vet said not to panic and to try Kefir (cultured probiotic milk) since she has seen dogs respond very well to that in helping them right themselves. I did for a few days and things are back to normal! You can probably get it at most grocery stores in the refrigerated or health food section. Here is the stuff I got from a kroger store:

http://www.lifeway.net/Products/BioKefir/Biokefir/BioKefirVanilla.aspx
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 10:35 am

Andrw2121 wrote:
Kodi has been on the boiled chicken and rice diet since last night. He finally pooped about 10 min ago. After straining for 15-20 seconds, a tiny amount of a gummy like substance came out (sorry to be so graphic). He strained for a few more seconds and then did his paw wipe off dance. This is definitely an improvement over the liquid stools he's had. We are going to continue the chicken and rice for the rest of the weekend and see how he does.
This is what my female did when we tried boild ground beef and rice, and 48 hours later, she threw up all the rice she ate in the past couple of days.

If he does not improve within 24 hours with his BMs, maybe try boiled chicken and green beans.

Plain non-fat yogurt with active cultures will also help reset the healthy bacteria in his intestines - you can give him about 1 heaping table spoon of yogurt. He'll think it's a treat!

Pumpkin can work both ways but for now, I'd leave the pumpkin out. You want fiber and something that will promote the healthy bacteria in his intestines.

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 11:06 am

If you run into trouble again even with the chix/rice and if you withhold food and he STILL is straining to go... I would recommend heading back to the vet so they can give him something so he doesn't strain (they gave a shot to Odin because he was straining so much to go when he had a nasty bout of the runs- it stops it) and then attempt the 24 hour fast. After that i'd try something like what Claudia is suggesting (Chix and green beans) avoiding the grains. But certainly give the chix/rice a good run before doing that. We had to do a lot of 24 hour fasts with Rodeo just to try and "reset" him as well as giving him a break.

Let us know how things are going!

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 1:04 pm

Not sure if it would effect a pup but when I had Jessie (1985-1999) in his later age straining was what actually did him in as his intestinal trac prolapsed (rolled over itself). He was older (13+) so it wasn't unusual for him to sleep a lot. But when we saw that he didn't even want to get up or maybe couldn't move because of pain, we took him in to the E-Vet clinic where we were informed of the grave situation. We had no choice to put him down Crying or Very sad as a large section of his large intestine died from lack of blood flow.

So if the vet suggest other exams or test take the idea seriously living on rice and chicken won't do well for ever. I wish you well.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 3:00 pm

Here4thePics wrote:
Not sure if it would effect a pup but when I had Jessie (1985-1999) in his later age straining was what actually did him in as his intestinal trac prolapsed (rolled over itself). He was older (13+) so it wasn't unusual for him to sleep a lot. But when we saw that he didn't even want to get up or maybe couldn't move because of pain, we took him in to the E-Vet clinic where we were informed of the grave situation. We had no choice to put him down Crying or Very sad as a large section of his large intestine died from lack of blood flow.

So if the vet suggest other exams or test take the idea seriously living on rice and chicken won't do well for ever. I wish you well.

You're so right.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 7:41 pm

Thanks, we'll definitely keep that in mind. He seems to be improving. He has been very playful today thus far.

He's only had two small BM's today, both very small amounts compared to what he's been eating. I think the rice might be blocking him up. He doesn't seem in pain or bloated though, and no vomit. He did strain to go again but very minimal.

We decided to pull him off the rice and try the chicken with green beans. I Just tried giving him his first taste and he basically ate around the green beans and finished off the chicken lol. I'm trying to hand feed him the green beans as well, but he seems to have no interest in them. Any suggestions or tips? Maybe try carrots? What type of carrots and how should they be prepared?

I also bought the non fat yogurt with active cultures to try as well.

Thanks again for everyone's input and advice, I think we're moving in the right direction =)
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:07 pm

Try sweet potato. It will allow the same benefits, but they seem to like it a lot more. (plus, huskies can handle it MUCH better.)
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:17 pm

Storm did not like green beans at all at first either. You could try mashing up the green beans with your hands and mixing it with the chicken so he can't eat around it - it's what I did to get Storm to eat his green beans when he was on a diet.

But do try the carrots - what I did for Ginger was rough chop and blanch it for a few minutes. You could give it raw, but it'll help break the carrots down if it's par boiled. I'd stay away from sweet potatoes right now - you want to give him fiber that will help him produce a BM and sweet potatoes might work the other way. You could also try green peas - if you buy them frozen, just thaw them out.

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:19 pm

true, I didn't think about that. What about regular potatoes. My Holistic vet suggested that when we went through this with Delilah.
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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:27 pm

Sweet potatoes would be better than white potatoes, however, veggies will be a better option for fiber to promote BM. When Ginger went through this, I did hard boiled eggs and carrots and less than 24 hours, she pooped a nice firm poop, full of carrots, but it was the first real normal poop in almost 2 months!


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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 8:47 pm

Thanks, I think we'll try the boiled egg and carrots for dinner tonight!

So about 3-4 hard boiled eggs? With the yoke? As for the carrots, we have a bag of "classic cut and peeled organic baby carrots" that we got from costco. Are these ok to use? If so, you recommend boiling them for a few min and then mashing up with the egg?

Sorry just want to make sure I'm doing this correct =)

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 9:16 pm

No problem!

Yes, hard boiled eggs with yolks, 3-4 eggs with about 1 cup of rough chopped carrots parboiled so that they're just slightly tender - 3 x a day. Yep, that means about 9 eggs a day and about 1 cup of veggies! If you want to leave the carrots the size, boil them a little longer so that are slightly tender. You may want to mash it up or cut it up and toss it with the egg just in case he ends up eating around the carrots too!

What I did was I rough chopped the carrots - kind of the size of frozen carrots the kind you'd buy frozen, and boiled them for about 5 minutes or so. then I rough chopped the eggs too and tossed them together. I ended up boiled a dozen eggs at one time.

You can also scramble them with a tiny bit of oil so that it doesn't stick to the pan, but I preferred to boil the eggs to truly have exactly 2 ingredients so that it was easier to eliminate which of the 2 was not agreeing with Ginger's tummy.




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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 9:53 pm

I've just been hanging back and silently following thus far, but wanted to throw out there that with Faith who normally HATES green beans, if I cook the beans in chicken broth she goes nuts for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 10:12 pm

Huskyluv wrote:
I've just been hanging back and silently following thus far, but wanted to throw out there that with Faith who normally HATES green beans, if I cook the beans in chicken broth she goes nuts for them.
Good tip!

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PostSubject: Re: Inflamed Bowel Disease ???   Sun May 13, 2012 10:15 pm

Thanks everyone =)

We're preparing his dinner of boiled eggs and carrots now! I'll let you know how it goes...fingers crossed =)
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