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 Crate training regression?

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jasmineramsden
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PostSubject: Crate training regression?   Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:48 am

Hi All,

been having a bit of trouble lately with kiya and her crate. She was an absolute gem to crate train and has never cried past her first night. she goes in and out of her crate all day and naps in there frequently. during the night she has only ever cried when she needs to go to the toilet, and comes straight back in and takes herself to bed after she has been.

However in the last week she has started moaning and whinging for the first hour of being in bed. I always give her one chance to go back out to the toilet but she does even seem to want to come out of her crate when i go back down so it cant be that.

can anyone think why she has suddenly started moaning like this... for what seems like no reason? She is now 5 1/2 months

Thanks Smile
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mssuchy
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Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:07 pm

I'd really like to see if there is any advice on this as well. Klaus is 5 months today and was doing great with his crate training. He was sleeping through the night until we got up for work at 7 for about two weeks straight.

Now the past week or so he wakes up at 4-5am and will cry like he did the week we brought him home. Very loud and persistent until we get up at 7. One day last week on my day off I had a terrible cold and needed to sleep in, so after letting him out I ignored him like we did when he was really young and put ear plugs in. He cried from 6am to 9am without a single break! I don't know what would have brought this on. He also goes and lays by our bedroom door after I take him for a break because that's where he wants to be but I bring him back to his crate.

He used to love it, we've never used it for punishment and still reward him when we shut it.
I feel like he's protesting because he wants to sleep outside of his crate? scratch
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:40 pm

In both cases, as described, I'm going to suggest that ti sounds like a minor case of separation anxiety.  

Our pups are, generally really "people pups" and want to be with us as much as they can ... maybe not actively involved with us, but near us ...

I'd ask two questions:
How is the dog when you're not home and he's crated?  Have you had any reports of a "noisy dog"?  If not then I'd say that he's okay with being in his den when you're not around.
How is (s)he when you are home and he's not crated?  If he behaves appropriately, not chewing on things or making messes, then as Haley suggests, it's quite possible that he wants to sleep outside his crate to be near you.

General caveat: I do not crate mine, so my questions and inferred suggestions may be all wet!
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MiyasMomma
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Location : west Texas

PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:09 pm

I have the same caveat as Al, haha, I do not crate. I agree with Al. Is his crate in your bedroom? If not I think a simple fix would be to move his crate in your room. If we did a poll, I bet you the majority of us here have our dogs in our bedrooms at night, and it wouldn't matter crate or not crated.
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mssuchy
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Location : Detroit, Michigan

PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:45 pm

When we're not home I'm not 100% sure how he behaves. When we first got him I would hear him crying when walking up to the house from work. Now when I walk in he's silent so I like to believe he just sleeps. When we're home most of the time he stays in the room we're in but is occupied by his own toys.

We've tried having the crate in our room but even the slightest movement in our sleep would make him cry because he would think we're awake. I would let him sleep in our room with the door shut (potty training goal) but our room is bigger so I don't know if he would wake us to go potty or just go in a corner -I'm trying to wait until he's completely potty trained to try. Also he likes to be on the bed and he would probably keep us up all night jumping up and down.

Other problem with this is we have a cat who cannot stand for doors to be shut, he will paw and meow for hours so we couldn't shut our bedroom door anyhow. Maybe baby gate it but that's all I could think of.
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cosmothunder
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Location : Bear Delaware

PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:33 pm

I have some of the same issues too. Bandit will just stand by the crate and not go in. It's like a stand off. Before she never cried now she does. At night she sleeps in the crate with the door open. All bedroom doors are closed. She used to sleep the night in there and not want to come out. Now She always moves to my bed in the middle of the night. She doesn't disturb me. Curls into a ball on the other pillow and just sleeps. Sooo is it she just really wants to be close to me? Or possible some separation anxiety?
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:57 pm

Jasmine - the OP who seems to have gotten ignored - Husky's, as you've probably found out tend to be more than a bit verbal. She may just be saying that she doesn't think it's fair that she has to go to bed in there. What you don't say is whether she's awake or asleep when she's moaning. The reason for the observation is that my Sibe, Sasha, will go to bed when I do and then after she's asleep (I think) starts making some of the oddest noises. Some I know from the sounds she makes when she's dreaming, some sound like she's being hurt - but if I wake her up, she's apparently fine.

If you're all still up and about after putting her to bed, it may be nothing more serious than her objecting to not being with you. (( I presume there is some movement - getting ready for bed yourself - and that may be what she's reacting to.

et al - as I noted to Jasmine, some of the problems I see with crating a dog is that they're "down" for the time that it takes us to get ready for bed and they may just be objecting to that. "I shouldn't have to go to bed before you do!"

If a dog is truly adapted to the crate as theirs and it is their den, then most will go in and out naturally. Tony, Bandit sounds a lot like my first Sibe in this. She's be on the floor when I went to bed, but sometime during the early part of the night she'd get on the bed. I think it's just the natural part of wanting to be with their pack and there's comfort in touching someone with whom you're sleeping (Misty often curled into the middle of my back, warm on the cool nights and comfortable for both of us.)
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:51 pm

Al may have something on the "moaning". Ami sometimes (and last night, did) whimpers in his sleep. The problem for me is Wayne interprest this as "bad dreams" and wants me to got comfort Ami. BTW - Ami is not in crate, just on his "bedroll".

As for Bandit - Tony, you're screwed lol! Where would you rather be, in a crate by yourself or curled up on a nice soft pillow next to the love of your life?

PS: Ami prefers his bedroll to being in the bed with us (extrapolated from hotel stays) - he climbs up briefly to see what all the fuss is about, but just as quickly goes back to the floor. What he really would like to do is sleep on the chair/ottoman that he has claimed as his own but I can't trust him to not rearrange the stuffing in my absence. Archer? He would sleep in our arms if we let him Razz

I really believe for crate training to work, you have to be iron clad consistent.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:05 pm

So this morning I think I might have come to the conclusion as to why Klaus has been crying in the early morning. He doesn't mind when we first put him in for the night at 10pm so I don't think it's separation anxiety.
When I let him out this morning when I got up for work (after two hours of non stop crying ) he went nuts for his breakfast. More so than usual. I don't think he needs to be eating more. We feed him 3 cups a day split in half - morning and evening. Maybe I should split it into three meals so he isn't so hungry in the morning? Or maybe he does require more food? He's just so solid I'd hate for him to gain anything more than he needs. He's about 40 lbs at 5 months.

& Tony how old is your pup? Klaus has been pretty reluctant to go in his crate too now that he knows we're going to our comfy bed. When I first tell him to go to bed he'll try to make a break for our room.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:19 pm

@mssuchy wrote:

When I first tell him to go to bed he'll try to make a break for our room.

lol! lol! Slippery slope, there.

We watch a movie every night, late in the evening. Ami had begun to try and make a break for the sunroom where there is a big, comfy, chair and a half with ottoman. One night, I forgot to put up the barrier...he made a break when I wasn't looking. When I came into the family room, there he was, curled up on the chair in the sunroom. In a most endearing "awwww" moment. Wayne came over to see, we looked at each other (ok, we're softies, we know it Rolling Eyes ) and Wayne, very slowly, said...let him stay.

The next morning, Wayne suggested I find an old blanket/sheet to cover the chair and ottoman.

And there Ami spends his late evenings for the movie (shortly after the previews start, the doggie door bell rings - the only time I do not have to entice him in with cheese Laughing ) And now, mornings while I have my coffee and use the computer close by.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:48 pm

Aw that's a nice place for him to have. Klaus will usually be ready for bed before us and will start settling down around 9. He likes to lay right between my fiancé and I on the couch, he's getting too big though don't know how to break it to him lol. We'll tell him to get down and gently lead him down and he will howl in protest at us and slowly make his way back up, poor guy doesn't know his size yet. Otherwise he has a dog bed he usually naps on too.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:12 pm

On a side note to all of this, Haley, 3 cups of food is adequate for a growing puppy, play around with how much and when. He may require more in the morning and less at night or vice versa, but, imho, stick with the 3 cups. Your new avatar is just too cute.
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LoneWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:35 pm

My puppy is four to five months; she hates the crate. She howls like she is dying, eliminates immediately as if she is terrified, and tries to claw the door open. I am letting her sleep with us. She won't go in it unless forced. I will try again after kids are done with spring break, maybe their running around is making her jealous.
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:37 pm

I had to force bandit for the first month. I made it a game though. Peanut butter. It has gotten to the point that I take out the jar and she runs for the crate. I take the frozen kong out of the freezer and say "go to your home" and she goes
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:07 am

Tony, << laughing >> yeh, bribery works for a lot of things. I like that she's also holding the learning after the rewards aren't always there.

Jake (you're in TX, Jake works, doesn't it??) If you're having to force Akira to go into her crate let me suggest that that's going to make it much harder to get her to willingly go into it. Take a look around, there are several threads about how to introduce the crate and how to make it work best. Desirably you want her to consider the crate her home, her space so that it's something she wants to go in.
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:03 pm

Same for Klaus I just grab his treats and he runs right in his crate and lays down. Works for when we're leaving for work. However we gave up on him sleeping in his crate. After two weeks of persistent crying and several migraines later we gave in and he now sleeps soundly through the night on his dog bed on our bedroom floor. Guess it was just time for him to upgrade Razz
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RachelNala1694
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:45 pm

Oakley is the same as Klaus but Oaks sleeps with us at night every morning religiously he wakes us up at 5 or 6 to go potty by jumping on the bed lol but he does pretty good with not going potty at night and he sleeps through the night! but i use a baby gate that helps alot but last night he decided to try and hop it so now he knows how to do that ugh puppies!!
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:34 pm

sooooooo my gopro revealed this to me today. This is what she does now after I leave. This is new. Can this be bad??? I don't know how long it goes on. gopro on did 2 mins but what do you guys think? A couple months ago she never did this. I was home most of the day so maybe that's it? Maybe im reading too much into it



forgot the link lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBy_xh7O8lc
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RachelNala1694
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:16 am

I have a go pro i should do that omg!
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RachelNala1694
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:19 am

Okay, so Oakley does that as soon as i shut the front door and he is in the basement i can hear him from outside im not sure if he stops or not but when i come home he some how gets things in the cage and shreds them he shreds up the carpet (as of late) and he also pees in his cage and he has been crated every day from 9-1 i let him out for 1/2 an hour then he goes back in the cage from 2-5 he does better during the first set of the day. I am also at a loss of what to do other than just let him get used to it even though its been going on 3 months. ugh
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cosmothunder
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:29 am

She has never peed in the crate and I'm assuming she has to stop at some point. She is doing it right now as I am about to leave to go out. She never used to cry before. Maybe She really really loves me now and she doesn't want to be separated???
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RachelNala1694
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:31 am

That could be it or there is some separation anxiety there, I think that is what's going on with Oakley but I'm not sure since its only when hes in the cage and it doesn't happen when I leave him out of the cage and I leave just for an hour or so
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mssuchy
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:57 am

Sometimes Klaus will be crying when I come home from work so I'm not sure how long it was going on. 90% of the time though he is good. I do my best to take him out in the backyard throw his ball, run around and just play for a good half hour. Maybe try exhausting him a little more before putting him in?

Also how is the crate size? At four months we gave him a little extra room in his crate since he was doing so good on his potty training then he peed by time we came home and had to downsize it again.
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RachelNala1694
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:59 am

I was always told that they have to be able to at least move around comfortably so his cage is the biggest one they sold Mad l
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vbear
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PostSubject: Re: Crate training regression?   Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:06 am

Bandit looks like he's got too much energy/curiosity going on there haha. Perhaps wear him out with exercise (if you can) before you leave him.

edit; woops! didn't see the post up there that already suggested it hehe

Another thing people could try though, find a toy that's safe to leave in the crate with them (one they like obviously!) and only give it to them when you'll be leaving them home alone.


Last edited by vbear on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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