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 Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!

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MelissaI
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:04 pm

I think I'm going to have to go back to the eggs and see how that goes again.I would like to try the white rice,but he doesn't like it. He's just so hungry when I'm giving him eggs/carrots only. He's really skinny as it is. Poor thing =( So once we do the egg thing again, try another ingredient, etc. Then go back to the kibble he's eating now (Natural Balance Sweet Potatoe & Bison) or try another?
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Koda
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:22 pm

I wouldn't introduce kibble, personally, until you've tried a bunch of things raw. If his stomach is that sensitive, it could be overload to try and put kibble in there.

I know the eggs don't seem like much, but it's not the eggs that are making him skinny, it's that he's not retaining any nutrients. So even though you're feeding him "more" with kibble or by adding other things, it doesn't make a difference if it's going right through him. Trust me. He'll be okay for the entire process. You're not hurting him, which I know seems hard to believe when he looks at you hungry, but at the end of the day, eggs aren't that expensive. You can always feed him more if he needs them.

Stick to what you know works, then build. It's the only way to do it. We're here for you.

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cmanding
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:28 pm

You were just like me when I was in your situation. I know exactly what you're going through.

Don't jump the gun too fast and try to go back to kibble or try different ingredients too fast because one doesn't seem to be working. It'll just make it worse and you'll have a set back.

Go back to eggs and carrots since he seemed to be doing ok on that.

If he his stool is firming up, keep him on eggs and carrots for at least 3-4 days. If he's a puppy, 2-3 eggs and about 1/2 cup of parboiled carrots 3x a day will create some volume to make him feel full.

After 3-4 days and he's doing OK, add 2-3 tablespoons of boiled ground beef since it didn't sound like he did do so well with chicken? If he seems to be doing ok with 2-3 tablespoons of boiled ground beef, hold him there for 3-4 days.

If after 3-4 days he's doing OK with eggs, carrots and 2-3 tablespoons of boiled ground beef, add 2 more tablespoons of ground beef and back off 1 egg. If he's doing OK on that mix, hold him there 3-4 days.

If he continues to do OK, then add 2 more tablespoons of boiled ground beef and back off one more egg.....

Keep repeating, adding a little more each time of the new ingredient. If at any time he goes soft, back off what you just added.

Once you get him stable on 'home cook', then you can try adding kibble back SLOWLY, starting with 2-3 tablespoons at a time and building on that. But always remember to back off what you added as soon as you seem him go soft.

It takes at LEAST 4 weeks to introduce anything new in their diet.

After I got Ginger back to regular stool on eggs and carrots (which took me a couple of weeks), it took me 8 more weeks to get her back to 100% Kibble. This is because when I started to slowly introduce her kibble which was Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (which is what she was eating before her diarreha), I noticed that she didn't agree in something in TOTW, so I had to try something else, and found that Orijen 6 fish formula is what she does fantastic on.

You need to take it SLOW and be paitent. I learned the hard way, and was anxious and was switching food and adding new ingredients too fast which was doing her more harm than good.

Your patience will pay off and you'll have his food dialed in - it just takes time.

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MelissaI
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:49 pm

Thanks girls. It is VERY FRUSTRATING!!! Tori, he begs me for kibble. He goes and looks where we store it and begs and begs. This is so hard. Claudia, how long did it take for Gingers stool to be hard once you put her on the eggs/carrots?
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:26 am

Ginger did VERY well on eggs and carrots. It was within a day that she had a regular stool (it had a lot of carrots in it, but it was formed and pretty firm). Keep in mind, at 60 lbs and 3.5 years old, I was giving her 4 hard boiled eggs and 1 cup of chopped cooked carrots at each meal 3 times a day (yes, she went through a dozen eggs a day in the beginning). This gave her volume which made her feel full, and this gave her fiber to keep her 'moving' so that she could have a BM every day (she wasn't pooping every day and when she was it was mucousy diarreha).

Once she gave me a normal BM, I kept her on that menu for at LEAST 5 days before I added 1/4 cup kibble, and minus 1 egg and minus 1/4 cup carrots. Anytime she went soft, I backed off whatever change I made.

Even now, I still monitor her BMs closely and I always make a mental note of anything she eats. And hard boiled eggs and carrots are still her default go-to meal if I'm ever in a bind and don't have food for her.



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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:17 pm

Wow, lots of catching up to do here. What kind of chicken did you try? Raw or cooked? I would return the NB Bison and Sweet potato as that seems to have produced a horrible reaction. FWIW, a number of sibes are sensitive to beef/bison/red meat in processed/kibble form...my boy cannot tolerate processed beef or bison but raw he handles just fine. I definitely would not recommend rice for this breed as they are notoriously sensitive to it.

You've got some great advice already but just to clear everyone up, how much egg and carrot are you feeding currently? You may need to up quantities to help him feel fuller. Have you tried cooked green beans at all to see if he'll eat them? Cooked green beans are packed with fiber to help firm up the stool and they are low in calories and sugar so he will feel fuller without all the added sugar that carrots have. Sweet potato is also good for them, generally easy on the stomach and will help him feel fuller. If you do try either of these make sure to introduce them slowly and one at a time.

When you introduce a new kibble, how much are you introducing when you start giving something new? Sensitive dogs tend to need very slow switches starting with even as small an introductory amount as just a few pieces of kibble. I generally only give maybe 4-5 pieces of new kibble when I introduce something totally new rather than jumping straight to 1/4 of their normal or suggested serving amount like most people can do with non-sensitive dogs.

Is introducing raw meat an option for you at least temporarily or no? Have you considered trying a less processed diet for Kody at least until you can get him back on track? By less processed diet, I am talking about either a dehydrated or freeze dried food that is minimally processed (more natural with more nutrients and easier to digest) and contains less ingredients (therefore lessening the amount of stuff to react to) such as Ziwipeak, The Honest Kitchen, Stella & Chewy's, Grandma Lucy's, Addiction, Sojos, etc. I may sound like a broken record at times but it's largely due to the amazing results and success I've had on these foods. I am a huge fan of dehydrated and freeze dried raw foods as they are generally very gentle on the stomach and easier to digest, have fewer ingredients and are all around better than kibble. The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw has been my go to food for the last 2 years and is the only affordable food that all three of my dogs thrive on. I highly recommend it but I do acknowledge that it isn't for everyone and even with THK it is trial and error. Ziwipeak and Stella & Chewy's are even better but they are too expensive for me to feed too regularly which is why I stick mainly with THK. THK formulas contain a lot of fiber for firm stool but they also up the stool volume too. My hubby always remarks THK's slogan should be 'Honest Kitchen equals big poops' as their HK stool is double the size of kibble stools and 3-4 times the size of raw stools. Here I go talking about poop again. Rolling Eyes

I would email THK and ask if they'll send you some free samples of THK for Kody so you can try it once his tummy settles. My sibe does wonderful on Keen, Thrive, Force and Embark. Their Thrive formula is a grain and gluten free, all life stages, limited ingredient formula for sensitive dogs. You can email them at samples@thehonestkitchen.com to request free samples of their products or see if your local specialty pet food store carries samples. Doesn't cost you a thing and couldn't hurt to try it out. I feed raw 3 days a week and Honest Kitchen 4 days a week. I know how awful life can be with sensitive tummies and THK has been a life saver for us so I can't help but say good things about their food. We dealt with Faith's sensitive tummy for a good 11 months before finding something that actually agreed with her (Perfect Form digestive aid + The Honest Kitchen).

How long have you been back on the egg diet with Kody and how are his BM's today?

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:33 pm

Hey Val, thanks so much for the detailed response. I tried boiled chicken breast after a week of him being on eggs and carrots. I was giving him 3 eggs 3 times daily with carrots as treats (probably 5-6 baby carrots a day). I haven't tried the green beans or sweet potato yet. When I started feeding him the kibble I guess I messed up b/c i went with the normal 1/4 cup to start with.

I'm not sure if our local pet stores carry The Honest Kitchen. I don't believe I've ever seen it, but I will definitely email them for some samples.

I'm going back to the egg diet with Kody starting tonight. Just to be sure...I should just switch straight to the eggs and not mix it in slowly with the NB, right? If lets say he doesn't do well on the eggs (which he should since he did ok last time) would I switch to, let's say, sweet potato, right away? or mix in the sweet potato with the eggs?

Also, how many different foods (eggs, green beans, carrots, sweet potato, chicken, etc) should i go through before introducing kibble again?

AHHHH..LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:44 pm

You're too ahead of yourself. Switch straight to the eggs and at this rate, keep him on them for at least 5 days. Just eggs. Then keep us updated on his progress. We'll help you from there Smile

One step and one day at a time Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:59 pm

Koda wrote:
You're too ahead of yourself. Switch straight to the eggs and at this rate, keep him on them for at least 5 days. Just eggs. Then keep us updated on his progress. We'll help you from there Smile

One step and one day at a time Smile

Thanks Tori! You're right about me being ahead of myself. My brain is going in 100 different directions right now! I'm going to start with him boiled eggs this time and see how that goes. It's easier to boil eggs for 2 days then to be making scrambled eggs 3x a day. Plus then with the scrambled eggs Mya wants them and it's hard to not give any. Spoiled doggies!
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:56 pm

MelissaI wrote:
I'm going back to the egg diet with Kody starting tonight. Just to be sure...I should just switch straight to the eggs and not mix it in slowly with the NB, right?

Yep, switch him cold turkey back to eggs and carrots and stick with that for a week. If and only if he is doing well on the eggs and carrots at the end of that week you can introduce single new ingredient like either sweet potato or green beans. Like Tori said, take it easy and go slow. You rushed into the kibble and it backfired on you so definitely slow it down and take it one day at a time. Keep us updated on his progress over the next week and we'll figure it out from there.

I would definitely return the Natural Balance because of the horrible reaction he had to it though. That's just too strong of a reaction to be normal and I would not put him through that again.

MelissaI wrote:
If lets say he doesn't do well on the eggs (which he should since he did ok last time) would I switch to, let's say, sweet potato, right away? or mix in the sweet potato with the eggs?

This is ahead of where you are now, but hypothetically if he did not do well on the eggs then you would not keep giving eggs. I would switch to sweet potato by itself simply because dogs are carnivores and need meat, particularly animal based protein rather than plant based protein. Sweet potato as a supplement to the diet is fine but I would not feed it alone. If, for example, he does well on eggs and carrots for a week then you could add a small amount of sweet potato to his food when he is ready to incorporate new ingredients.

MelissaI wrote:
Also, how many different foods (eggs, green beans, carrots, sweet potato, chicken, etc) should i go through before introducing kibble again?

There is no set formula to follow so it's really what you feel comfortable with. Trying sweet potatoes out by themselves would help you figure out if he does or does not tolerate it so you know whether to avoid foods with sweet potato or not as an example. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:54 pm

hi guys! Ok just a quick update. I started Kody on 4 boiled eggs and 1 cup of boiled carrots last night. Gave him the same at 645am and he had his first BM when I took him for a walk at 730am. It was pretty well formed, very full of carrots, but looked a lot better. Hoping he has another later today! I'll keep you guys posted Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:01 pm

Yay Poop! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Yay poop! And yes, that's exactly what Ginger's first poop was! Sounds like he's doing much much better!

If his second poop still looks well formed, stay with hard boiled eggs and boiled carrots for at least a few more days. Remember, I had Ginger on hard boiled eggs and carrots for at least 5 days before I introduced any new ingredient.


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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:10 pm

I remember thinking, 'I can't belive I'm SO into Ginger's poop, and how happy formed poop could make me!' lol!

...and guess what? I'm still very interested in her poop! HA!

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:21 pm

lol! I know how you feel!!! I was like yay woohooo in the middle of the park giving Kody high 5s..LOL!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:32 pm

That's great news! At least you know what your "go to" remedy is in the event things ever take a turn for the worst with his tummy again. Definitely stick with that combo for at least several days before even thinking about adding something else. We love formed BM's! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:47 pm

Huskyluv wrote:
We love formed BM's! Very Happy

Yes, we do!!! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:11 am

Hi guys! So I came home and he did #2 several times and they weren't as formed as this morning. Not liquid like or mushy, but not hard. Wasn't easy to pick up like Mya's so I know its not normal.

I thought about taking a pic to send to you, but thought that might be sorta weird...LOL! I will send you one if you guys don't think i'm nuts!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:14 am

People post poop pics in other forums, I'm so used to it! But I think a description is more than sufficient. I'd keep at it and give it more time and see how his BM's progress.

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:21 am

Huskyluv wrote:
People post poop pics in other forums, I'm so used to it! But I think a description is more than sufficient. I'd keep at it and give it more time and see how his BM's progress.
Agreed Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:43 am

There's a store called The Doggy Store near my house Melissa that sells THK. Although you probably won't see this until you get home from the meet so i'll tell you there too lol

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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:32 am

MelissaI wrote:
Hi guys! So I came home and he did #2 several times and they weren't as formed as this morning. Not liquid like or mushy, but not hard. Wasn't easy to pick up like Mya's so I know its not normal.

I thought about taking a pic to send to you, but thought that might be sorta weird...LOL! I will send you one if you guys don't think i'm nuts!!!!

Was is full of carrots so that it didn't hold together and it fell apart?
If that is the case, you could try a little less carrots and see if it's better...

Ginger's first week on eggs and carrots, she had some BMs that were like that. It wasn't liquid BM, or mucousy, or mushy, but when I tried to pick it up, it was so full of carrots, it just fell apart...


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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:12 pm

Hi guys! Kody has been on eggs and carrots for 4 days now and right when everything was looking better he swallows the socks! After a rough Sunday afternoon/night. He did puke them both out and is acting totally normal. Plays, drinks water normally, begs for his eggs/carrots. Now, my one concern is that he hasn't really pooped since the sock issue on Sunday. He tries to poop and little drops come out Mad It seems like he's constipated, but I don't know why. If it's because he had the socks in his system or if he needs more food. I don't know if to take him to the vet or what to do.

Should I give him mineral oil to see if he poops? The vet had told me to do that with Mya once and it worked. I don't want it to cause the diarrhea again though =(
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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:24 pm

Ok, he threw up both socks on Sunday? Has he been eating normally since Sunday after throwing up the socks?


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PostSubject: Re: Diahrea & Projectile Vomiting!   Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:27 pm

You mentioned in the other thread that he threw up the eggs with the socks... I hate to state the obvious, but if he's been throwing up his food, he's got nothing to poop out Sad You need to give it a little more time.

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