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 24 weeks old, issues with potty training

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Swift135
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PostSubject: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Tue May 21, 2013 10:58 pm

Hey guys,

My wife and I have a 24 weeks old female Siberian Husky. We've had her since ~8 weeks.

Currently she will do all of her business every time we take her out. We're building a fence soon, so she's on a tether when she goes out. She knows to go on the grass after getting off of the deck. She will go all night in her crate without accidents. She'll stay in her crate for hours if we need to and she'll not have any accidents.

She didn't have any accidents for maybe 6 weeks until this past week, pee accidents now only. Sometimes she would stand by the door to be let out, but not anymore. She may have had more free roam during this week with accidents, comparatively. She'll drink a lot of water and I'll take her out every 20 minutes because sometimes she'll just let it out wherever she is inside. So, this week she's now had 3 accidents. One I caught her in and told her no. The other two my wife didn't' catch her.

She is not interested in food while pooping or peeing by the way. She is all for it any other time. She knows many commands and loves treats, just not when doing her business. We praise her, give her treats, pet her, and throw a party, but she just seems disinterested until she's done and moving on.

I began trying to bell train since Saturday. She's not tapping it with her paw, only biting it so far. Never to tell us to let her out though. Currently, We open the sliding door to the deck and attach her tether. We have her sit and wait for us to say "outside" while the door is open to help with impulse control with doors. She's perfect with this. Tying the bell into it is going alright she's just not picking up on it.

Can anyone offer me some ideas on how to complete this house breaking process with her?

Thanks!
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blueeyedghost
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Tue May 21, 2013 11:27 pm

If she's suddenly regressed like that and doesn't seem to show the ability to control it, she may well have a UTI. I'd get her into the vet and have them test a urine sample.

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Swift135
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Wed May 22, 2013 10:27 am

I would say she didn't digress but we just gave her more time between when we took her outside. She holds it just fine in her crate under similar amounts of water consumption. She has told us she had to go out only about twice before so I would say she hasn't really learned yet that she should do that.
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Stefifi
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Wed May 22, 2013 7:05 pm

Potty training can be so hard. If she doesn't have a UTI she could be regressing. Kids do it, so do doggies.

As for getting her ring the bell, put a little bit of peanut butter on it and that way she will lick at it thereby making it ring. I always instruct my pet parents to only use the bells/put them out in the morning when you take her out. That way you know she will HAVE to go. After about 2 weeks she should have the hang of the bells and you can hang them all day long.

I have had great success with them and potty training Zeabie and the great thing is that I can take the bells with me to hotel (when I travel for work), or bring them to work when he comes in with me or even when I go to friends houses.
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riggaberto
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:04 pm

Hey all, thought I'd bump this tread, - similar situation but Chuck is 10w. He's mostly confined to a room with a door outside for most of the day but I'm letting him out more and more around the whole house or half of it. He has never had any accidents in his 'area' however he does when he gets out. He's not really going to the door and looking out/sniffing/whining anymore. He specifically goes in the foyer most of the time. It's a full potty too - no issues with control. I do thoroughly clean every time.

He hadn't needed the bell training previously, I'd prefer not to start it but I will definitely consider it if other alternatives don't do the trick.

Thoughts? Thanks

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cinnamonbits
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:33 pm

He's only ten weeks old, so that's very young. Karli really didn't start coming out of her shell until we had her for about a week, so she went a whole week with no accidents and then they started happening because she was comfortable with us. I would say if you're going to let him have more access to the house, until he truly is potty trained, I would tether him to you and take him out as often as possible. Just taking her out every hour really helped. Now she walks through the blinds when she has to go out. Treat him every time he goes outside so he knows its a good thing. Most dogs wont potty where they eat/sleep, so that's probably why he doesn't go in his "area."
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riggaberto
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:45 am

Thanks cinnamon. I guess my concern with taking him out too frequently was 1, he'd get conditioned to go frequently and 2, he'd stop thinking he needs to ask to go, because he previously had done neither of those things. I take it your experience wasn't that? I will definitely try that more, he's now a repeat offender. Yesterday was my roughest day yet...rowdy, peeing everywhere. He hung his head, I hung my head...
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Sheba&Kennedy
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:04 pm

They won't get conditioned to going out frequently; they are puppies. They physically cannot hold their bladder. They just can't. They don't have the muscle nor the mind set. I would say he is too young to be graduating to more space in the house, but that is just my personal opinion. With Sheba, when she wasn't in her crate, she was taken out every 15-30 minutes on the for until she was 7 months old; then it was like she woke up one morning and she was like,"Hey, moms right. I CAN hold it!". Don't expect too much too soon. Don't make them hold it either; that can cause infections. To me, it sounds like you are expecting way too much too soon. Puppies are like babies. They are not adults. It takes time for them to learn that they need to let you know when they have to go. To puppies, they think," hafta pee, must pee!"...and they pee. They don't "know" any better. They only know you are about to yell at them and get mad and they don't understand why. Like I said, Sheba was having accidents until 7 months, and she still occasionally has them (last night was the first one in months). You have to remember they are not programmed to know these things; we have to teach them. Have patience, enjoy learning with your puppy.
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cinnamonbits
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:12 pm

Quote :
I guess my concern with taking him out too frequently was 1, he'd get conditioned to go frequently and 2, he'd stop thinking he needs to ask to go, because he previously had done neither of those things.
Its actually quite the opposite!!! I treated Karli every time she went potty outside, and I mean every single time. This way, she WANTED to go outside because she'd get that super yummy treat. So find something that he really likes that's high value and use it. I also would say "go potty" when I'd take her out and now she knows what the word "potty" means. Her walking through the blinds to signal us was a total fluke, she did it once and I thought she had to pee so I took her out and she did. After that she knew that would get our attention. She only has an accident as a last resort, she gets right in my face if I'm asleep and she has to go. Its gonna take time and patience, trust me I was still getting up at midnight to let her out until she was over six months old. Consistency is key. I only treat now when she poops outside because I don't want her to ever want to poop inside lol.
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wpskier222
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:25 pm

Dizzy wasn't fully potty trained until around 14 weeks. First of all, I didn't really understand his signals right away (he used to get really mouthy), and even if he went to the door, if I didn't get him out within 5 seconds he'd have an accident in front of the door. By the time he realized he had to go, he had to go right NOW! He couldn't wait for me to put my shoes on, so I started taking him out more often to preempt him asking and it did the trick. There were times i went out in my slippers though to avoid him having an accident when he asked. I also always have a "go bag" with everything I need for a trip outside so I can grab it and go whenever needed. Now though, he does ask to go out when he just feels like being outside, but I can tell the difference between that and when he actually has to go. He'll still dribble if I don't get my shoes on fast enough, but he's usually in a panic by that time.
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riggaberto
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:31 pm

I think he's very intentionally peeing in those problem areas - not a control thing. He has NEVER had an accident overnight and has only whined at me overnight to go a few times. Then again I also wake up at around 6:20 am every day so that helps. I'm lucky in that when I'm at work, my sister and brother in law work at home so they take him about roughly every two hours on their lunches/breaks when I'm gone. That was part of my concern about Chuck never telling me he needs to go - he usually doesn't have to I guess.

After hearing from everyone else...I think my situation might actually be a lot better off than most peoples! Yay! The advice for following him around when he explores the house when I let him is good - I think that'll be the ticket.

Thanks again everyone Smile
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cinnamonbits
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:15 pm

Quote :
I think he's very intentionally peeing in those problem areas -
Puppies don't pee in places on purpose. When you clean these spots are you using an enzyme cleaner? If you're not, he can still smell the pee and is going there because it smells like where he's supposed to pee at. I would definitely get an enzyme cleaner. Two hours may be too long if he's having accidents. Tether him to you if you can that way if he has to go, you're right there and he's already on the leash. Always take him out right after you get done playing with him, that's usually when Karli would have an accident.
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Sheba&Kennedy
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:35 pm

I am going to give you some tough love, Rob.

You are humanizing your dog WAY TOO MUCH. He is a BABY. If he is peeing/pooping in the house, it is YOUR FAULT. You should be watching him like a hawk. He is a PUPPY. If you give him an inch, then it is YOUR fault. If you wait too long to take him out (which I think you are), he will find somewhere to pee, and he doesn't really care where. If the foyer is out of your line of sight, is in a secluded area, then yes, he IS doing it on purpose. Not because he is "dumb", or he is "retaliating"..it is straight up your fault. He is going to go into a corner and pee, because he has to and you aren't paying enough attention to him. To have complete expectations that your pup would be 100% potty trained by 10 weeks of age is a huge disservice to your puppy.

I am not trying to be mean, but you seem like you are stuck in this ONE frame of mind. You need to realize they do things because we LET them. If you don't stay on top of taking him out every 30 minutes-1 hour-1.5 hours...then YOU are enabling him to pee in the house. Puppies are NO different then babies (except much fluffier), and you need to realize that.

Give him time, he will learn. Praise like crazy every time he potties outside, and don't give him full, unsupervised reign over the house. Let him earn it. Don't yell at him when he has an accident, and don't get discouraged either. They are ALL different little beings and need to be treated as such. Embrace your new puppy; let him be an individual. Embark on this new journey TOGETHER; don't put him up on a pedestal he isn't ready for yet.
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riggaberto
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:21 pm

Sheba&Kennedy wrote:
I am going to give you some tough love, Rob.

You are humanizing your dog WAY TOO MUCH. He is a BABY. If he is peeing/pooping in the house, it is YOUR FAULT. You should be watching him like a hawk. He is a PUPPY. If you give him an inch, then it is YOUR fault. If you wait too long to take him out (which I think you are), he will find somewhere to pee, and he doesn't really care where. If the foyer is out of your line of sight, is in a secluded area, then yes, he IS doing it on purpose. Not because he is "dumb", or he is "retaliating"..it is straight up your fault. He is going to go into a corner and pee, because he has to and you aren't paying enough attention to him. To have complete expectations that your pup would be 100% potty trained by 10 weeks of age is a huge disservice to your puppy.

I am not trying to be mean, but you seem like you are stuck in this ONE frame of mind. You need to realize they do things because we LET them. If you don't stay on top of taking him out every 30 minutes-1 hour-1.5 hours...then YOU are enabling him to pee in the house. Puppies are NO different then babies (except much fluffier), and you need to realize that.

Give him time, he will learn. Praise like crazy every time he potties outside, and don't give him full, unsupervised reign over the house. Let him earn it. Don't yell at him when he has an accident, and don't get discouraged either. They are ALL different little beings and need to be treated as such. Embrace your new puppy; let him be an individual. Embark on this new journey TOGETHER; don't put him up on a pedestal he isn't ready for yet.
You're using a lot of really emotional language such as implying I think my dog is dumb or retaliating, which is both not true and not useful to the conversation.  

In addition, of course I know it's 'my fault' if the dog isn't trained well, that's why I'm on the forums seeking advice on how to be a better dog parent.  At the same time, a single accident here or there is not my fault, he is, as you said in all caps, a puppy. Your advice would come across better if you kept it more succinct and less preachy and emotional. If I didn't want to get feedback I wouldn't be here.


@cinnamonbits wrote:

Quote :
I think he's very intentionally peeing in those problem areas -
Puppies don't pee in places on purpose....he can still smell the pee and is going there because it smells like where he's supposed to pee at.
That sounds like on purpose to me! But your point is taken & valid, and yes, I am using an enzyme cleaner. Apparently not thoroughly enough though! The other tips you gave are good as well appreciate it.

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Tika
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:33 pm

@riggaberto wrote:
cinnamonbits wrote:

Quote:
I think he's very intentionally peeing in those problem areas -

Puppies don't pee in places on purpose....he can still smell the pee and is going there because it smells like where he's supposed to pee at.


The issue here is more in the wording of what you meant by "intentionally".

You need to understand that people come on here often thinking their dogs are doing X, Y, or Z to spite them, or in spite of them.... They get frustrated and blame the pup instead of looking at why it might be happening to begin with. To that end, "intentionally" tends to be used to pass blame onto the pup for what ever they did.

In this case it's used more along the lines of "The pup keeps eliminating in the same spots inside, what can I do?"

I think Roxy and Kelsey summed up nicely what you could be doing to help the process along.

A pup is a pup is a pup. They can be trained out of behaviors, or to do marvelous things, but it all takes time commitment, and effort. Keep at it and it will go away in due time. Just don't expect miracles from a 10 week old pup Wink.





@riggaberto wrote:
I think he's very intentionally peeing in those problem areas - not a control thing. He has NEVER had an accident overnight and has only whined at me overnight to go a few times. Then again I also wake up at around 6:20 am every day so that helps.



One quick thing of note, take it how ever you want, as it has to do with the length of time your pup is "holding it" over night.

With a 10 week old you're looking at somewhere around 2 to 3 hours between eliminations (Quick rule of thumb is 1 hour / month old your pup is). We use this rule not only for the expectation of humans, but also for health reasons.

If your puppy is holding their bladder for a prolonged period of time it can at times lead to a Urinary Track infection. Setting an alarm and waking up every couple of hours was a small price for me to pay to make sure I:

a) Kept my puppy in tip top health.

b) Avoided unnecessary vet bills.

c) Kept my house clean and urine free.



It doesn't train or condition them to expect to go out any sooner, and in fact helps with house breaking as they begin to understand they should only be going outside all the faster. As they age you just slowly prolong how often they go out.



Lastly.......

@Koda wrote:
When do you take treats away?
-When someone breaks one of the Forum Rules (always displayed on the righthand sidebar of the forum).
-When someone contributes negatively to a discussion (meaning they resort to name-calling or attack another member).
-When someone posts incorrect or harmful information (Please be careful of using treats in this manner. We are ALL here to learn, but there are situations when it becomes clear that a member might be perpetuating misinformation without regard to actual facts. If the information is incorrect and the member makes NO attempt to correct him/herself, then it becomes appropriate to take away a treat for that post.)


Treats are not a "like" or "dislike" button.

Though I wouldn't call Kelsey's reply ideal, in no way was it harmful, defamatory, or against the rules of the board. This serves as a reminder as what we strive to use "treats" for, and what they represent.

It's a Husky Thing - What are Treats?

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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:18 pm

Also, especially for the youngster of 10 weeks, there are certain activities that make them tired and automatically trigger the need to pee, *regardless of how long ago they peed last*:

-chewing anything
-drinking water
-eating food
-running, playing
-training
-any other type of mental stimulation
-napping, sleeping, relaxation from petting/messages...

it is usually like clockwork that these activities will get their bladder moving. The great thing about this for you though is that these activities provide a perfect opportunity for you to take control of the potty training, earn the trust and respect of your pup, incorporate treats and positive reinforcement, and most importantly, to set up a routine and system for your pup to get into. The more structure they have in their life the easier it will be to take control of their behaviors and habits, and this can only come from your consistency, patience, and diligence. By doing so, your pup will bond with you and recognize you as a source of good things.

Take advantage of their predictability.
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Sheba&Kennedy
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:20 pm

I am naturally a very emotional, loud person. I am sorry you took my
post my post that way, but that is how I talk in person, and how I talk on the Internet.

Also, I never said YOU called your dog dumb, that was just an example which is why it was in quotation marks.

Take it or leave it, but that's who I am. "Preachy" or not, you keep saying your dog isn't trained well. You aren't getting that it is not the dog. He physically cannot be trained to hold it for as long as you are expecting him to.
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:33 pm

Well said Kelsey. A 10 week old pup is sorta pre-trainable anyways in terms of this. I think we all at some point blame things on our puppy's choices even though there's no choice involved.

This is why it is often, and rightfully said, that we shouldn't correct or reprimand puppies this young for things like potty accidents--there's no choice involved.

Whether it's potty issues or chewing or whatever, with pups this young all training should be about routines, consistency, and *redirection.* You can't train away the urges or the impulses or the drive but you can channel it and redirect it and guide into something that works well for you and the pup.

As my post above said, take advantage of their predictability.
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cinnamonbits
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:16 pm

Quote :
That sounds like on purpose to me!
Its not on purpose because he's a puppy and puppies don't understand that they need to pee outside. Especially not a ten week old puppy. He's going where you can't see him because he knows it will upset you (but not WHY it upsets you) and he really has to go. Making him hold it at night is not fair to him, that has to really hurt. I would take him out more frequently at night. When Karli was four months old she had an accident in my kitchen (away from our line of sight) and I walked in and saw it. She turned tail and put herself to bed in her kennel. Now I never put her in her kennel when she does this but she knew she had done something wrong. You have to be consistent and have a routine.
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PostSubject: Re: 24 weeks old, issues with potty training   Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:30 am

If you are having issues with your pup going in the same place even though you are using the proper cleaner I would suggest investing or even just hiring for the next few weeks a portable carpet cleaner. I got a Bissell Little Green when we got Orion and it worked a charm, their little noses can pick up the faintest trace off pee so I made sure I was setting him up for success by removing it all when he did have an accident. Our routine was to take him out every 20 minutes (I had timers set on my phone) and and night time it was every two hours in the beginning and yes we treated like absolute crazy and made the biggest fuss when he went (I actually heard my neighbor laughing at me one night as I'm repeating "Good poop Orion" in high pitched happy voice) but it worked, Orion hasn't had an accident inside since he was 12 weeks old Smile
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