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 How long for timeouts?

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alexandra.vallebo
Newborn
Newborn
alexandra.vallebo

Female Join date : 2013-08-11
Location : Iowa

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyTue Aug 13, 2013 9:10 pm

Hey everyone,
My husband and I have been using the removal timeout for our puppy when he bites, but aren't sure about how long he should stay there. What do the rest of you do?
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SabakaMom
Senior
Senior
SabakaMom

Female Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Virginia

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyTue Aug 13, 2013 9:51 pm

Just a couple minutes. We use a small bathroom, lights out and all chewable temptations removed.

Instant reset for our guy...
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Bella_Jasper
Teenager
Teenager
Bella_Jasper

Female Join date : 2013-02-08
Location : Bolingbrook, IL

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyWed Aug 14, 2013 10:00 am

Mine usually start yelling when they get a time out so I dont bring them out until the noise stops and I tell them its quiet time. I do what everyone says not to though their crates are their time out as well as where they sleep and eat, but they'll still run to the crates just to lay down, Bella willingly sleeps in it with the door open
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wpskier222
Senior
Senior
wpskier222

Female Join date : 2013-02-11
Location : NYC

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyWed Aug 14, 2013 10:05 am

I don't need timeouts anymore, thankfully Dizzy has learned the drill now, but when I did I had to use his crate. We live in a studio apartment and I didn't have another option. I did about 10 minutes, more if he was whining or howling. Long enough for him to come down from that energy high that would intensify his biting. He still loves his crate and goes in willingly for naps and whatnot.
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyWed Aug 14, 2013 10:57 am

depends on the crime Razz

Seriously I think the max I've done is 5 minutes, unless they jump out (We use our bath tub), then the timer resets. Jumping out rarely happens...


That being said , I've left my friends shar-pei in for a lot longer though, after it jumped on Ripley, latched on, and shook. That thing has no socialization or training what so ever, and honestly I was more worried Ripley would destroy it.... I decided to leave it in there until it relaxed and calmed down, and to give Ripley enough time to reset.

After it relaxed I let it out, and it was a completely different dog. It curled up on me and slept between my legs on the couch the rest of the night while I watched TV....


Sometimes a set time isn't as important as getting them into a more relaxed and receptive frame of mind. I can't recall exactly how long she was in time out, but I know waiting until both her and Ripley calmed down was the absolute right thing to do in that case.

~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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arooroomom
Husky Collector
arooroomom

Female Join date : 2009-12-13
Location : South Fl

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyWed Aug 14, 2013 11:04 am

I don't let my dogs out unless they're calm and not throwing a tantrum.

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SabakaMom
Senior
Senior
SabakaMom

Female Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Virginia

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyWed Aug 14, 2013 9:02 pm

We've never had the howling and yelling in time out. That would be a pain.

Last night as I typed my reply to this I was thinking how great it has been that Sabaka does not have to go to time out very often anymore. Wellll, a friend stopped by the house this morning and he was insane! Jumping, paws on the couch, barking, talking back when told to be quite...crazy stuff. The friend could not believe how he just hung his head and walked into the time out bathroom when I told him to. Upon release, he was calm and quite (Also he refused to look at my friend. She laughed at that, saying that he evidently blamed her for his punishment and was now mad at her. I think she was correct!)
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyThu Aug 15, 2013 8:46 am

@Sabakamom wrote:
The friend could not believe how he just hung his head and walked into the time out bathroom when I told him to. Upon release, he was calm and quite

Ripley I have to chase around the house when it's time to be put into time out.... She pretends she is going towards the bathroom and runs past at the last second to the bedroom and lies down.



Tika however does the exact same thing as Sabaka.... If I say Time out and point she will slowly sulk into the bathroom and jump into the tub... It makes us laugh every time. My mother was floored when I showed her this summer....

~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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Bella_Jasper
Teenager
Teenager
Bella_Jasper

Female Join date : 2013-02-08
Location : Bolingbrook, IL

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyThu Aug 15, 2013 9:56 am

Both bella and jasper will run to my room when they know when i've had enough of some behavior or if I yell no or go after they've been pulled away or swatted away from the garbage can a few times and im getting angry with them but where bella will run to her crate and stare at you jasper runs and gets on my bed. He seems to think thats the best place ever and he should be allowed all the time. Yeah the yelling is a pain! Bella does this really loud whine type thing I cant even describe it she shoves her face into the crate bars so her lips are pulled back qnd she looks rabid or something and just makes noise. Every time she gets a time out my mom starts asking what I'm doing to her or what the hells wrong, nothing shes being punished and doesnt like it.
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptyFri Jan 09, 2015 9:53 pm

This is the only thread that came up in my search for timeouts so if there is a different thread please redirect me. So we're using the time out method for Klaus whenever he is biting too hard, or chasing the cat and doesn't stop when told to leave it. However I know you're supposed to correct the action within moments of the behavior happening. After I give a stearn leave it and he ignores it I plan on timeout. Keyword "plan" because it doesn't go that way. Once he knows he's in for a timeout he hides behind something and runs out of my reach. By time I actually get him to his timeout spot he's probably forgotten what he's done, plus he's then distant from me from tracking him down. How did you manage to get your huskies to go willingly? He absolutely will not. I feel like my last option for correcting behavior is just a failure and doing more harm than good.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 5:38 am

Haley, there are a few ways to deal with time out. With Miya it was easy because I would get up from her play area and walk away and shut the door. Being she had our work shop to stay in. I would come back once I knew she settled down and was calm. Since it does not sound like you have that option, I would use what he knows, tell him to sit, this should direct his focus on you, then you can progress to the time out if needed. With Miya I use the word enough, but you can use settle or whatever is a good word you want to use. One piece of advice that I recommend to new owners is to always use their name prior to the command, so in this case Klaus Enough, or Klaus Sit. With the puppy mouthing, it can get strange in that, grabbing their attention they may appear to be calm, but go right back to crazy, that's when time out is appropriate, and since he should be sitting, the opportune time to escort him to time out, you at this point can implement your recall command with him, so he follows willingly. Btw, time out is not entirely the correction right after the fact, the time out is more for him to calm down, now Tika did a great example of actually using the command time out and has the spot already in play, this may work for you as well. You just have to pick a plan and stick with it.

Miya at 2 years old will stop bugging kitty when I tell her Miya enough, that is all I need to do. With the mouthing on you, this is a natural thing for him to do, it's his way of wanting to play, so determine if he needs more exercise vs getting out of control. Also he may be seriously teething, that may also be why he is mouthing you more. So I personally try and access the situation, is he teething(you can fix this with a semi soft chew, a frozen treat, etc), has he had enough mental and physical exercise(do some training, play a game with him, work on leash training, etc), or is he in puppy craze(time out is needed). Hope I helped a little..... Smile
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 11:32 am

I do tell him "Klaus leave it" and "Klaus sit" in those situations however he doesn't listen, obviously I know he still needs more training in them because he's young, but I seriously cannot get him to focus on me unless he knows I have treats. When I have treats he does all of his commands very well. Sit, stay, down, come, I can even get him to "leave it" and put treats all the way up his paws. However when he knows I don't have anything and I'm just getting on him for chasing the cat he doesn't even look in my direction when I call out to him so that's why I'm mainly using time out for that situation. Maybe the reward isn't enough? The only command he does very well without treats is when he is going outside he sits right by the back door, I open the door walk out and tell him to wait. He won't walk out the door until I say okay and he does this without treats - because going outside is the best reward? The mouthing situation I guess is a little trickier because I know he is teething, usually he is pretty good at chewing his toys and bones but sometimes he really just wants our skin and nothing else satisfies him. I'm okay with the mouthing, I like it to an extent, he just doesn't respond when I let him know it's too rough.

I do like the approach used with Tika, but since he won't go on his own I try to lead him to the bathroom by having him follow me. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Once he is in there he usually cries and scratches on the door, I wait until he calms down to open it.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 12:49 pm

Sounds like you need to lay off the treats all together and focus on true obedience and relationship training.

It's great that you do threshold work and he waits for release.   Is the problem just with chasing the cat or is there other excitement issues in the house?

This is the problem with treat training:you can't always bribe your dog I the heat of the moment in the real world and then any training goes out the window.
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http://www.k9convergencetraining.com
seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 1:02 pm

You can use that same threshold protocol to teach boundaries with your cat, you just have to stage it with the cat in the same room.
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http://www.k9convergencetraining.com
mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 1:12 pm

Yeah I think you're right. It just feels close to impossible to hold his attention without the treats "good boy" only goes so far with him. How should I train without treating to hold his focus? Maybe training him outside against distractions would be good? Or no?

As far at the excitement issues go, sometimes he has moments where he just wants to bolt through the house, which I don't mind he isn't destructive when he does it. I just don't like him going after the cat, he always does it in a playful manner but like I said he doesn't know his limits and I don't want him nipping the kitty too hard. Sometimes if I say leave it when he goes after the cat and hand him a toy instead he'll listen and I'll give him praise, but this happens maybe 15% of the time? I also always treat the cat first and have him wait, which he does, and he'll get his treat second. So I know the patience is there, I just don't know how to capture it! Other excitement issues would be that he jumps on everything. Couches, counters, baby gates, etc. If I go downstairs which is off limits to him because it's the cat's safe area he screams bloody murder and runs throughout the house. He is always a lot better when he is wore out of course but even so he will jump up on the kitchen counters when we're doing things or jump up on the bathroom sink when I'm getting ready.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 1:35 pm

To train him not to hunt your cat , that's what he is doing, you need to use an aversion to him targeting the cat in conjunction with praise for targeting you.

Correct him for so much as looking at the cat and then redirect his targeting to you. Make yourself more interesting than the cat and yourself fulfill the drive he is experiencing.  

Thus in the context of a general calming protocol at home should get results.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 1:47 pm

That frustration he exhibits is pent up, unfulfilled drive and really bad impulse control, which is a very difficult life lesson for a Husky, especially one with too much entitlement and lack of boundaries.

Structure, protocols, and calming should trickle down to all areas over time with consistency.
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

How long for timeouts? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 1:51 pm

So when he is looking in the cats direction grab a toy and look really enticing so he comes for me, and praise when he chooses me over the cat? I think this will work pretty well. One time that I literally cannot control him from chasing the cat is when we come in from outside. He is in an extremely happy good mood when we come in from outside so when he sees Bandit his first instinct is to go after him to play and continue this good mood he is in.
Also, should I keep the time out approach when he makes the wrong choice?

Thank you for your advice on all of this.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 3:04 pm

Right, good catch.  

So don't allow him to enter the house in that state of mind, ever, because that state will carry into the house and transfer to the cat.

Insist on calmness prior to entering the house and you'll be setting the tone by distinguishing outside from inside.

You want calmness, not energized.
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 3:16 pm

Alright well I got my work cut out for me, hopefully this approach helps!
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 3:25 pm

If your walks are structured and mentally engaged and your threshold work at the door is sound, you're winning already. Just take that mindset and wait for it to connect before going inside, then you set the tone for calm and quiet and collected indoors. Don't let the charge for the cat escalate, catch it before it starts and issue a determined correction calmly.

You'll be set up for success.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 3:35 pm

Also, for a while while you are dialing this in and establishing new protocols, eliminate any rough housing or excitement or riling with your dog. Any games or play or interactions that create excitement and elevate your dog's mind will trigger a need for release, and guess where this will be targeted?

Your cat, the most convenient prey available to your dog.
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 6:08 pm

His walks are pretty structured. He gets played with in the yard in the morning before work, he's actually still a sleepy head in the morning. Then he gets a walk when we get home from work, not always the exact same time but pretty close. He never gets to walk in the door before we do. Yesterday he didn't get one because of the harsh weather conditions but he kept busy with a frozen kong. My boyfriend likes to rough house "on his terms" but I think we'll just have to cut that out completely. Now playing tug and getting on the floor with him is this too rough? He loves that kind of play.
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 6:39 pm

Keep in mind,  I'm talking about his mind, not his body.

You can never physically play too rough with a Husky, but you can easily excite a Husky, escalate their mental alertness, and cause a build up of energy that will need to be released, somehow.  

If your cat is around and he's not yet trained to leave the cat alone, the chances of hum turning that energy onto the cat are very high.

It's not about his body, it's about his mind.

Same with threshold work. I don't personally care if my dog sits or stands or lies down, what I care about is a polite, courteous engagement to me.

So, if you're interested in changing protocols and calming him down, generally, in the house, it's up to you two to set the tone and pace. Think of it as line reading on a graph. The higher it rises, the lower it must fall. Then, there is a huge fluctuation between either extreme. In other words, mixed messages and unclear parameters for your dog.

To do proper calming work that line should be perfectly straight...consistent, reliable parameters.

The fun play can then happen outside or someplace neutral. Or, once you've reached your desired level, you can slowly incorporate it back into your home.
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mssuchy
Teenager
Teenager
mssuchy

Male Join date : 2014-12-10
Location : Detroit, Michigan

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PostSubject: Re: How long for timeouts?   How long for timeouts? EmptySat Jan 10, 2015 7:42 pm

That makes a lot of sense. He is blocked off from the bedrooms and basement of the house. His crate, bed, and most toys are in the living room. Should I not play with him in this main area since this is also where the cat likes to be? I still want some play in the house, especially that way if it's raining or something he can still get some energy out. Should he come into the bedroom or computer room and play with toys? Or continue in the living room and if he stops playing with me and turns his attention to the cat time out? I'd just hate to cut any type of playful energy out of the house completely.
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