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 So frustrated with new Sibe

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Eskimofriend13
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Eskimofriend13

Female Join date : 2015-03-17
Location : Midwest

So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
PostSubject: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 10:25 am

Hey guys, new member here. I recently adopted a 4 year old husky when her previous owner passed away. A little about her background- she was a rescued malnourished stray rehabilitated by my aunt around 1 yr of age. Since then, she has been mostly an indoor dog. She was totally spoiled (in a good way, I mean). My aunt was always at home and treated her well. However, she did not get regular exercise and never learned to walk on a leash without pulling.
I already had one dog- a german shepherd/ husky mix who is extremely well behaved. He was a joy to train and I worked with him a lot. He's a registered therapy dog and is also good off leash.
I'm trying to get the new girl accustomed to our lifestyle- my SO and I live in an apartment, and our dog gets regular exercise with runs, dog park visits, and hikes. But I'm having some issues. The main concern I have is loose leash walking. I started using the method where every time she pulls, I quickly change direction and encourage her to follow, praising when she does. That seems to be okay. But when I need to actually make some progress, I also use the method where I stop and act like a tree every time she pulls. I then try to encourage her to come back to me, but she completely ignores this. I spent hours on this yesterday for instance, and she did not seem to get it. Meanwhile, every time I tried to get her to come back to me (without using "come" as I am reserving that for recall), my boy who was off leash would come sprinting back to me lol. It's such a huge contrast between the two. Also, I don't know if this matters, but the male seems to be alpha to our female.
I eventually need to be able to walk them both on leash (as I only do off leash when no where near roadways), but that just seems impossible now. I read the other thread suggesting the Y lead but I want to get her better at walking first.
The other thing that has been driving me a little crazy is going through doorways. We have the dogs sit and wait until we cross the threshold and then release them to follow. Our new girl knows how to sit and will do so for treats, but refuses to at the door. So I gently put her in a sitting position and praise her. Usually takes several attempts to get her through the door. She also does this thing where when we want to go out, she lays right by the door so she can be the first one out. I can ignore this if we are leaving but when coming back in after a walk, it is really frustrating.
The other thing is that treats work inside and she loves them, but outside or when about to go outside, she has NO interest, and I have tried different kinds.
The good thing is I have time. I am graduating from medical school and have a couple of months off before starting work as a physician. I want to get her well trained so that when I am busier, we can play and exercise stress-free.
Sorry for such a long post. Like I said, I'm just super frustrated right now. Any suggestions/ encouragement would be greatly appreciated. My new girl is a total sweetheart, and I'm willing to work for it, but the past couple of days have worn me down.
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TwisterII
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TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

How long have you been working on this with her? At four years old training is going to take longer since she is set in her ways. She has been uprooted from her home and it will take time to understand why and why she needs to act in this totally different manor. As for off leash, I would never trust her to play in an unfenced area off leash without some kind of back up like an e-collar. Being purebred and so far set back in her training, I just wouldn't risk it. The world of a more active lifestyle is new and distracting to her.

Pulling. Ugh...some dogs just never get good at loose leash walking. I too have one dog that pulls like his life depends on it no matter what. I've trained and trained and trained against this with only mild progress. Sometimes you just have to resort to pulling aids such as front lead harnesses and prong collars. I've actually resorted to a prong collar. It has made the most difference. You may see progress with the pulling when you are walking the two dogs together though. My male walks better with my female because he doesn't feel like he's going to miss discovering whatever she might find if he stays glued to her. She is good on leash and this has saved my arm a bit. Waist belts can also help save your arms.

Doors. Can she sit and wait away from a doorway? Does she know and understand the command well? My girl learned wait at the door by being on leash. I'd put her in a sit and wait, I'd praise, then I would go for the door. If she moved I would correct her w/ leash and put her back in a sit and wait. We would repeat until the door was wide open and she was sitting and waiting without me having to put pressure on the leash. Then I would treat right before we went out the door. Until she is better on leash she may take a while to get the door down. She seems just too excited to go and do like she didn't get to before and getting her calm and focused on you will be the key.

It's just going to take time. Instead of a puppy that learns like a sponge absorbs, you are having to undo all of her bad habits and then teach. Way more challenge than most puppies, but you can do it. Patience.

_________________
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Eskimofriend13
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Eskimofriend13

Female Join date : 2015-03-17
Location : Midwest

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 11:28 am

Thanks for your reply. As far as off leash, I agree. I will NEVER let her off leash outside an in-closed area. I was referring to my other dog. I have tried the EasyWalk harness on her unsuccessfully. Man, can she pull despite having that. I also have a gentle leader. I was just hoping to not have to rely on that forever. As far as the prong collar- I know they are humane and safe when used properly, but I hate the stigma. The fact is that to other people they look scary. And even among dog trainers, there is a large segment that looks down upon using those. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I can't deny that I do.
I have only been working with her for about a week, which I know is a very short time. I just thought I would see SOME progress. That's a great point about her being set in her ways. This is my first time training an adult dog.
I was thinking that for those times when I just need to get somewhere with her, I could use the gentle leader, but otherwise continue on working on the loose leash walking. But how do I know when to just give up on that latter goal? I know that more than anything she wants to advance to explore, so I don't get why that won't work. I know she's intelligent.
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 11:49 am

For no pull walking I highly recommend a prong collar. I use a herm sprenger medium (you don't need the big clunky large one) that has been modified with a side release buckle (see http://www.leashesbydesign.com/ProngCollars/ProngCollars.html - not the quick release, reports have it that the quick release can let go unexpectedly, the side release has been very reliable for me and is easy on my arthritic hands.)

The prong collar has been almost a miracle for me - I adopted a year old 63 pound male, I am small female, at the time had significant difficulties with walking and using the prong totally enabled me to control Mr. Dog...well, except for the "pogo stick era" when he would suddenly pounce on little furry critters in the grass So frustrated with new Sibe 1625187496

We found using the prong and the "stop, be a tree" (which we only had to use for maybe a week or 2 with very occasional re-hash) made him a different dog. I take care of my son's husky mix pup (now just about a year) and when he got too strong for me, I insisted on a prong and from day 1 walking was a totally different experience.

Glad to see you adopted her! Graduating from medical school? Does that mean you are starting residency? That's not going to leave you a lot of time...
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 11:56 am

As for the stigma - the medium collar just buries itself in the dog's fur, it won't even be seen.  I really urge you to consider this - especially if you are starting a residency (?) and most dog walking will be left to your SO (assuming it is a female but maybe not).

There are several posts regarding the prong that you can search.  Just a note about its use - it is NOT used like a choke.  I also put the thing around my arm and pulled tight on it - is not uncomfortable, more like a squeeze, a hug, even.
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TwisterII
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TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 11:59 am

I went to the prong as a last resort. I've had my male around 9 months. For me it came to a point where he was a hazard to himself with his pulling and it had to be controlled regardless of the stigma of the method. I've learned that the people who usually frown on prongs are people who don't really understand prongs. Once you understand them better it is much easier to settle to the idea. You just have to decide if your situation is severe enough it is more important that your dog not pull than it is what others think. I do think more than a week of work is necessary before jumping into your last resort methods. For me, I still use a normal harness most of the time and have normal leads for times where I allow them to explore the world. Prong is for being in public at store or at events when I can't have anyone out of line. She needs some time to explore the world. I would take her out and give her some free time to explore on a long lead and just let her take you where she finds interest for 10 minutes or so. Let her explore first, then work on training. Let the overwhelming stimulation work out her system a little bit first. If she is overstimulated by her surroundings then she isn't able to fully absorb what you are trying to teach her. When I first started going to professional training with my girl I would exercise her hard before going so that I could more easily get her attention for training. I did this for the first couple months until she had the commands down, and then I slacked off on the running before and we started working on drilling the commands in under stress and stimulation.

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TwisterII
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TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 12:09 pm

@amymeme wrote:
 I also put the thing around my arm and pulled tight on it - is not uncomfortable, more like a squeeze, a hug, even.

lol. I did the same thing. Went to the store and put it on my arm. Gave it a pretty hard yank even. It was prickly but didn't hurt at all. Customers were giving me weird looks as they walked by watching me crank down on this wicked looking prong collar that's wrapped around my arm.

_________________
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 12:21 pm

Greetings from the Big Bend area of Texas!  If you don't mind my saying, I think that right now, you're expecting way too much from the girl.  Given her past, I'd be very surprised if she weren't taking a long time to understand what is happening to her - and a week isn't enough time.  You're making several major changes in her life and even little baby steps are an indication that she's making the changes she needs. Look for those changes, not what she isn't doing...

All my dogs for many years have been rescues; some are so happy to get out of the cage at the pound that they become an immediate velcro dog, wanting to please.  Others just don't seem to understand that short of my dieing this is their final home.  With the schooling you've had so far, you must have had to learn patience - be patient with her and I'm pretty sure that you'll have a husky pal for your gsd/husky.  Maybe it's also time to say that you shouldn't be comparing the two dogs - they are different dogs, different backgrounds and it will take time for her to adapt.

And now it's time for my normal greeting to a new user.  Please go back and fill out your profile, it's pleasant when as friends we can call each other by name and talk about your dog(s) by name.  Knowing, at least roughly, where you are can help us guide you to resources that you might not know you have available.

_________________
So frustrated with new Sibe GY3Hm5 So frustrated with new Sibe REEum5 So frustrated with new Sibe 2zERm5

“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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Eskimofriend13
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Eskimofriend13

Female Join date : 2015-03-17
Location : Midwest

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 12:55 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses. Great points about what a big change this is for her. I guess my thinking was "hey isn't this great? Now you have a new big brother and you get to run and do all kinds of fun things. I love dogs so lets make this easy, k?" But yes, this is also a big change for her. As I mentioned, this is my first time with an adult rescue. I'm used to being able to shape a pup and prevent a lot of bad behaviors. The best thing I ever learned about dog training is that when the dog misbehaves, it's not that the dog is bad. The owner just hasn't provided the correct outlets/ rewards. So my shep Charlie never once had accidents or chewed things up. I was always there to give him better options and lots of love. But I am certainly up for the new challenge and appreciate the advice. It was my aunt's dying wish that I take Sara, because she knew how much we care about Charlie, so I am happy that I have the time and resources to make it work.
Twister, good call on the letting her explore thing. She's just so darn excited to go outside. I live next to a field where I let Charlie run around off leash. I will get a long lead for Sara so she can join in on the fun. After all, a tired dog is a good dog.
As far as the prong collars- I just watched some videos by "solidK9training" that were linked from another thread. Impressive stuff. Really seems like a safe and helpful tool. Amymeme, I am a female and my two dogs combined weigh more than me, which is why this loose leash stuff is a big priority for me. Now I am walking the 2 separately, but if I go the prong route, can that be used with a Y lead? Or should I train them to heal on opposite sides?
For residency, I am going into Emergency Medicine (will be an ER doc), so I will be mostly working in the afternoons and evenings. My husband works 9-5. So having time to get their exercise won't be a problem. We also do doggie daycare during busier times.
One other question: Initially we had a resource guarding issue with a dog bed. All "possessions" have been put away and there have been no further squabbles, but when can I start transitioning some of this stuff back in?
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 1:26 pm

Welcome, Eskimo! My husband just retired from emergency medicine...sort of a "get out of Dodge" scenario. The hospital implemented a new computer system - Quadramed and nobody likes it. One day, he had a high risk patient with chest pain. He wanted an EKG. The computer would not let him order it without all sorts of justification - the straw that broke the camels back...he called the director and told him "take me off the schedule next month. I quit!" So retirement has happened abruptly...and he is happy as a clam!

As for the "Y" configuration with a prong collar - yes, I walk both Archer and Ami in a "y" with both on prongs. One thing I'll add - I combine the prong with a Rokstrap bungie leash. The stretch of the leash helps give some warning to the dog and also protects my shoulder. I sort of cobbled together my own "Y" configuration with 3 leashes and a carabiner.

I will say this - using the prong in public, even when we first got Ami and he was one bouncy, excited boy at every new experience (he had been left to his own on very short tether before he was seized by animal control), people would complement me on my "well-behaved" dog...always mystified me as in "who? what well behaved dog?!!?)

I don't have Ami heel except in high traffic situations or in stores/events kind of things. I let him be a dog and sniff, dig, wander. The walks are for him, I'm just along for the experience and to keep him safe.
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jbealer
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jbealer

Female Join date : 2009-05-29
Location : Denver, CO

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 1:33 pm

Welcome, im glad you found us. it seems you are learning how a full husky acts vs. a husky mix! you have gotten great responses. it sounds like you are on the right course she just needs time. I have 2 rescues (1 and 6 at the time) and they both took about 2-3 months to settle into our home and routine, and then a few months after that to learn things. with huskies routine is key, they learn when you stay consistent with the method. as for walking i don't think then prong and Y will work together. i used a prong with our boy for awhile till he walked better. i just walk them both on separate leashes, with a male and female and the peeing it was a pain to have them on a Y.
hang in there and she will get it.

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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

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Location : seattle, wa

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 1:52 pm

Fully agreed a prong should be used individually for each dog. No Y. You'll want to fully utilize the advantages of the collar for each dog and it'll be way safer.
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wpskier222
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wpskier222

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 3:56 pm

To be honest, I think the prong is a more gentle tool than anything else (for most dogs, not all respond). I've only once seen a dog straining at the end of a prong barely able to breathe. Whereas with buckle collars, I've seen dogs flip themselves over in frustration and excitement. I don't think a prong should be a last resort. It's a great helpful tool.
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LoneWolf
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Male Join date : 2015-03-10
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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyTue Mar 17, 2015 11:06 pm

I may not be an expert but a prong is really close to certain torture and discipline devices that were used on slaves. I can't even look at one and consider using it. I think alot of people need to make up their minds whether their dog is cattle or a member of the family.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 12:16 am

Jacob, while I dislike the tone, I'll continue it strictly for example.  We don't cut off hands for theft nor feet for running away,  We do sell offspring and put old ones "out to pasture" when they are too old to be of service to themselves or others.

We do use leashes, collars, harnesses, fences and other restraints because there is too much potential for our pets to run away or get stolen.  My dogs are members of my family and like a child I do what I need to in order to teach and protect them.  

Personally, I too dislike prong collars - because I don't know how to use one as others have to their benefit.  Some things are a matter of experience and knowledge - I don't have it but I won't say that someone who does know how to use one productively is being cruel.

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“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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seattlesibe
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seattlesibe

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 8:42 am

@LoneWolf wrote:
I may not be an expert but a prong is really close to certain torture and discipline devices that were used on slaves.  I can't even look at one and consider using it.  I think alot of people need to make up their minds whether their dog is cattle or a member of the family.

Ah, so your aversion to a prong collar is emotional, eh?


The same can be said for leashes, halters, collars, non-consensual vaccinations, garbage food, crates, feeding on the floor, etc.  

I'm certainly not going to convince you to use a prong collar, as I think if you don't want to then you certainly should not.  But dismissing it because of how it looks and the family member argument doesn't hold much water.

A prong collar is for the most part way more gentle and less invasive than a standard dog tag collar, which can easily choke a dog.

If you're up for watching some videos about safe and gentle and effective ways to use a prong collar, despite the look of the collar, let me know.
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LoneWolf
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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 12:48 pm

Totaly emotional. No tone intended. Not saying it probably doesnt fulfill its function, so does a cattle prod. The look of them turn me away immediately. Not trying to offend, to each his own. Only my opinion.
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vbear
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vbear

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 1:42 pm

As some one who has leash trained a lot of dogs, all different ages and temperaments, I can say there is one thing to know that has helped me a ton.

Pulling from the side of their neck off sets their balance, it doesn't hurt them and in fact is safer then letting them pull straight forward (with you behind them) as doing that can hurt their throat and cause them to cough and choke. It's like a horse, if you want them to come along but they are stubborn, no amount of trying to drag them forward will move the massive beast, you have to find another way.

I've learned that treating dogs the same gets good results!
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MiyasMomma
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MiyasMomma

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 1:53 pm

Eskimo, Welcome to the forum!! I am going to side step the whole prong collar and walking issue and leave that to the above posters. I am going to give you the moral support that you need. I can well imagine how frustrated you are. I too have a husky/gsd mix, and although she is more husky than gsd, she was a charm to train like your boy. I don't think it is an alpha issue with your boy as much as it's a gsd thing, they were after all a herding dog to begin with, and they train to please you vs a husky. Female huskies tend to have a more dominate personality over males. Huskies are equally as smart as a gsd, the problem with huskies is that they learn something today, and tomorrow they act like they never did learn what you just taught them, selective memory, lol. As the others said, have patience, her whole routine has been disrupted. Many do not like, nor do well at first to change. Be consistent and persistent and you will have success. You have 2 beautiful dogs. There is a ton of info here, and as you can see, many people here to help you. Now to the important thing.....Pics please, lol.....

You did have a secondary question as far as guarding and possessions. I would slowly add in things, and more importantly give each their own item. You may have to separate at first, so that each can enjoy an item without worrying that the other one will take it. However I am not in a multi dog home, so hopefully some of the others can come back on and help you with that. Remember that your male is also transitioning, and he may need some positive encouragement as well. I would certainly do things together, but also things separately, so they both have alone time with you.
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techigirl78
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techigirl78

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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 2:46 pm

I have a shepherd mix and 2 huskies. I agree with Renee. My shepherd was breeze to train, though she had all her own issues with separation anxiety, resource guarding, etc. It does work a little differently, but I think in time you will work things out without issues. As you have a older dog, it may just take a little longer, but your patience will pay off in the long run.
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
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PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 3:15 pm

@LoneWolf wrote:
Totaly emotional.  No tone intended.  Not saying it probably doesnt fulfill its function, so does a cattle prod.  The look of them turn me away immediately.  Not trying to offend, to each his own.  Only my opinion.

Thanks for the good response and being intelligent enough to realize an emotional response. Having been accidentally<??> hit with a cattle prod once, I have to agree, I have an aversion to them too! Smile

We all have opinions, voicing them well helps others form their opinions. We respect yours (even if some would disagree).

_________________
So frustrated with new Sibe GY3Hm5 So frustrated with new Sibe REEum5 So frustrated with new Sibe 2zERm5

“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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Eskimofriend13
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Eskimofriend13

Female Join date : 2015-03-17
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So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 4:33 pm

Update! Everything is going well. I did decide to try the prong and I have to say... wow. That thing is wonderful. Sara doesn't seem to mind it. She gets really excited when I put it on because she knows she's going out. It has been an absolute lifesaver on the stairs. I have 2 6ft leads that also have the traffic handle closer to the clip. I let them kind of sniff and explore where they want, but when I want to actually make some progress in a walk, I hold on to the traffic handle and keep them on opposite sides of me. That has made such a huge difference. No more tripping, no more being pulled in opposite directions. My goal is still to get her walking just on the buckle collar like Charlie, but for now this is great. I don't have to walk them individually so I can now take them places like the park and on hikes, whereas before I needed a friend or my husband to come along.

Right now I am working on just getting Sarah to pay attention to me. I call her name and offer treats and praise when she responds. My big concern is the dog park. In order to get her to leave I have to physically go get her and put on the leash. So she has started to run away from me sometimes. I have been trying to desensitize her by putting the leash on in the park, waiting a few seconds, and releasing her to play some more. I'm used to seeing owners play endless games of chase to get their huskies to leave the park. I don't want that to be me!
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vbear
Newborn
Newborn
vbear

Female Join date : 2015-03-18
Location : Southwest

So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 4:59 pm

If she wont come then call Charlie and give him lots of hugs and treats Razz I bet she'll be driven mad with jealousy and come right away, muahaha! (But in all seriousness good luck.)

Long lead recall training might help you.
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amymeme
Senior
Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 7:22 pm

Eskimo, I am so glad the prong is working for you. Enjoy your walks sunny

Another good tool is an ecollar for recall training, but I don't think you can use them on dog park. Technically, your not supposed to have treats in three either but cheat has some good suggestions. Also... running in the opposite direction sometimes helps. Or waiting until she stops to rest or get a drink...I haven't quite mastered that yet myself lol!
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seattlesibe
Senior
Senior
seattlesibe

Male Join date : 2013-02-05
Location : seattle, wa

So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
PostSubject: Re: So frustrated with new Sibe   So frustrated with new Sibe EmptyWed Mar 18, 2015 10:16 pm

@Eskimofriend13 wrote:
My goal is still to get her walking just on the buckle collar like Charlie, but for now this is great. I don't have to walk them individually so I can now take them places like the park and on hikes, whereas before I needed a friend or my husband to come along

That's awesome that you are having so much success with it, congrats. Give it a good amount of time before trying to switch back to a tag/buckle collar. You will need to recondition both muscle memory and the mind here on walks, so it can take a few weeks or even months for the reconditioning to fully take hold. Yes, the results while on a prong are fast, but for the reconditioning it takes some time.

Great work on utilizing a tool and getting your dog to work better with you and make your lives more enjoyable together Smile

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So frustrated with new Sibe Empty
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