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 New grain free issues?

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Loki14
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2016-03-12

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 12:00 pm

I'm sure some have seen the new articles talking about heart disease and how it may be linked to grain free diets, due to the replacements they add in place of grains. Peas, lintels, potato's, etc.

Is anyone else concerned with this? We've been feeding our 2.5 year old taste of the wild grain free forever and he seems to do well. He is almost out and we need to buy some more food but seeing these articles makes me wonder if I should go with something new. I would probably have to get a small bag of the TOTW as to not upset his stomach to much due to the switch.

He is due for a vet visit but we won't be back for another month the or so to take him.

One thing I read was the warning signed could include them not being as active.. Loki has always been pretty lazy for a husky and gets tired on longer walks. We are currently living in TX where it is 110 degrees lately so we have had to walk him early in the AM and just play with him inside.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 1:48 pm

Hi Loki, from my understanding it had to do with too low of Taurine and it effected Golden's. I believe it was certain foods affected and they are correcting the problem, I do not believe TOTW was one of the products affected. I have been feeding TOTW for 5 years now with no issues. I would continue as you have been if there is no issues with Loki and he does well on TOTW. One benefit of TOTW is that you can use it as a rotational diet, meaning you can feed the bison and when that bag is gone feed the lamb, etc. That way your dog gets the benefits of getting items that may be missing with a certain protein, and also promotes dogs from becoming allergic to certain proteins. I will go and double check and report back, I belong to several feeding groups and can see what products were affected by this. Smile
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Loki14
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2016-03-12

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 1:51 pm

Well that is good to hear! We will continue with TOTW, then. We do rotate them each time as well. He has a yearly soon so we will have them test Taurine levels for good measure. It should be interesting to see the results as that is all we've ever fed him.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 2:36 pm

I went and looked some stuff up......it is still not known what the issue is, lack of taurine or the inability to make taurine on legume type GF foods. The study is pretty specific to breeds that normally have a high rate of DCM, or heart issues in general. Feeding foods that are normally higher in taurine may be best, but like I said the research is ongoing. Lamb is low in taurine however beef is high. So my suggestion of rotating proteins may be best. I would seriously wait it out, I am not switching foods, and like I mentioned, I have fed TOTW for 5 years now and my girl is a spazz still. Smile
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bluemoods
Puppy
Puppy
bluemoods

Female Join date : 2018-06-14
Location : Arkansas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 2:55 pm

The other option, if your dog does well and, you prefer a low taurine food, give a taurine supplement, there are tablets and chews that provide that out there.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 6:20 pm

I don't believe there is a way to know if a food is low or not with taurine. Also currently supplements would be the same as the food, since researchers have not concluded if it's just too low of taurine or if the legumes deplete taurine. And I prefer going the natural route, I would just add in beef heart, since I do believe that is one of the highest taurine available, within meats.
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 6:45 pm

Here is some additional info from a dog food group I belong to

I’ve had a ton of private messages of people panicking about what to feed their dogs since the DCM/grain free/taurine news broke. I recommend the same thing to each person. Please get a taurine test done on your dog(s) first. Then let’s talk.

It’s no secret I’ve been a supporter of grain inclusive foods, 75% of what I feed is grain inclusive. I think it’s physically impossible for all dogs to be allergic to every grain out there, when most are not even on the common allergen lists.

My advice is before panicking is to get your dog(s) taurine levels checked. If they are low (normal is 200-350) then you can supplement and/or change foods. Recognize the signs of DCM. If you are inclined to believe your dog has DCM do NOT change foods. Do NOT supplement. Get the dog to the vet for testing.

Link for testing at UC Davis which is $75 iirc, I can’t quite recall sorry! https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/labs/amino-acid-laboratory

DCM information. Please be aware that a lot of this is geared towards Doberman breed but these are what the dogs are exhibiting signs of.

https://www.2ndchance.info/dogdilcardiomyopathy.htm

https://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/outreach/Pet-Health-Topics/categories/diseases/dilated-cardiomyopathy-in-dogs

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm613305.htm

Your dogs taurine level came back low, what now? Send a report to the FDA through their safety portal. https://www.safetyreporting.hhs.gov/SRP2/en/Home.aspx?sid=6dcc2583-3f20-4ac2-bfc7-32bfcb7a83e2
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Loki14
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2016-03-12

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyTue Jul 24, 2018 6:50 pm

Thanks for all the insight! I'm not in any hurry, Loki is acting fine.

I will be checking his Taurine levels here in a few weeks at the next check up as a safety guard and should report back with what his levels are. He has only had TOTW grain free since we have had him. Taurine supplementation is easy so even if it is low, regardless of why, the solution should be simple.
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jbealer
Husky Stalker
jbealer

Female Join date : 2009-05-29
Location : Denver, CO

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 1:44 pm

I feed grain free, have been for 9+yrs without issues. I have been feeding TOTW all those years and afters Jack's constant ear infections and face breakouts i have switched to Earth born, and his face is clearing up now. we are on our 2nd bag right now (fish) I am hoping the ears clear up soon as well, if not we have more testing to do.

Any one know if the taurine levels are tested in normal blood work panels? Jack gets his done every year.

_________________
New grain free issues? Iaht10
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 2:55 pm

Jenn, I think one of the links I posted the UC Davis one I think tells you what test is needed, I think it is an amino acid, but from what I have read it is a simple blood test, so maybe yes it is included in the regular blood panel that is done yearly.

As to Jack's ears........I was feeding TOTW Pacific Stream, and Sofie's ears still had trouble. I have since switched over to TOTW Prey line and will switch out with 4 Health Untamed line and the ear infections cleared up, allergies will bring on the infections, and for Sofie she is allergic to all chicken, flax, eggs, and with white potatoes in the kibble her ears just wouldn't clear completely, once going off of the white potatoes and what she is allergic to she has had no problems. This current issue with the GF foods, does concern me, since the prey line is mostly meat and legumes no other plant in the food, but so far so good. I will wait and see how these studies go first before I think about changing foods. For Sofie I think if that is the case I would have to go all raw. Sad
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Loki14
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2016-03-12

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 2:58 pm

I've been saying wrong.. we have always fed 4health.. not TOTW. Pretty much the same thing as far as I've ever heard, though. Is that wrong?
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MiyasMomma
Senior
Senior
MiyasMomma

Female Join date : 2014-06-26
Location : west Texas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 3:09 pm

I switch out between 4 health and TOTW yes they are manufactured by the same company, along with Diamond, and Kirkland's nature's domain, and I am pretty sure that Walmart's pure balance is also. 4 Health and TOTW are almost identical with the GF kibble, and 4 health's grain inclusive is more like Diamonds line. Smile
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amymeme
Senior
Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 8:36 pm

I just came across this in a NYT article and came here to post about it -and here you are, already discussing it! What disturbs me is that the DCM is in breeds NOT typically susceptible to DCM and that the taurine issue is contradictory - one golden retriever had low taurine levels, other breeds/mixed-breeds had normal taurine levels. One place cites "novel" proteins (kangaroo, I think,) Tufts veterninary nutritionist talks about potatoes, legumes as possible blocking the dog's own synthesis of taurine.

I am particularly concerned because we have always noted that Ami's panting seems to be a bit excessive, even occasional wheezing (we've attributed it to possible seasonal allergies - potentially supported by his blood work last month have a trifle high eosinophils) And...now Z'ev is also intermittently wheezing. I dunno - I just find it odd that both dogs and myself...even my husband occasionally, all tend to breathing issues. Granted we live in the middle of allergen central but...
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amymeme
Senior
Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Pretty sure taurine is NOT included in typical blood panel (was not in either Z'ev's or Ami's recent blood panels)  Dogs normally would not have an issue as they are able to synthesize taurine.  Cats cannot and it is essential that they receive a diet supplemented with it (cat foods do supplement.)

TOTW, at least the high prairie, also adds taurine (I checked while I was reading the NYT article)  The Crave I was feeding, does not.

Also - as I was discussing this with Wayne, he did point out about how my own gluten free diet is often assumed to be healthier in the popular view but is actually deficient in nutrients (typically B-vitamins). His guess is that there is some deficiency not yet teased out.
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bluemoods
Puppy
Puppy
bluemoods

Female Join date : 2018-06-14
Location : Arkansas

New grain free issues? Empty
PostSubject: Re: New grain free issues?   New grain free issues? EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 10:31 am

Things like this make me glad the bulk of what I feed my dogs is raw meat and bone. Most raised by me, game I hunted myself or, fish I caught myself. The produce they do get is grown here and, the grain they get is locally grown nearby. The small amount of Kibble they get is a good quality kibble that would sustain them for a week or two if that's all they had for a short time.

My Kibble does not add Taurine but, it does have the precursors added so that the dogs can make taurine out of it but, even if it didn't, with the primarily raw diet, high in venison and fish, I'm not worried.
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