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 Probiotics & Generic Dog Food

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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 12:28 pm

After my last round with Sasha (who is feeling and acting much better, thank you) Mary (my vet) sent her home with "Science Diet Sensitive Stomach and Skin" and some packets of "Purina Fortiflora."

If I make the assumption that she got into something that gave her a really bad stomach ache and the change to Science Diet with the Probiotics was what pulled her up then I naturally have to ask what type of probiotics (and dog food) others are using to help their aging dogs maintain.

I've read about Probiotics on the web and what they do for a dogs (and humans) health but understanding which might be best seems to be "you pays your money and takes your chances." The natural probiotics (kefir, for example) are pretty much out of bounds since I don't have storage space for them. That leaves me with the packaged types.

What I'm reading on the web is confusing as all get-out, it seems as if I'm reading that "We're the best because we contain <pick your poison> in quantities that the others can't match (or don't have at all)!" or "We're so much better than <again, pick your poison>" When anyone targets a competitor as being "bad" that immediately turns me off. If you can't sell on your good points then why should I even consider your product.

What's really disgusting is when they claim to have "7534 kazillion CFU's of probiotics" (er, kazillion is my expression for "large" quantities) but they then don't identify what specific "living organisms" make up their ingredients.

Any comments / suggestions???? I need help!!

_________________
Probiotics & Generic Dog Food GY3Hm5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food REEum5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 1:31 pm

Ugh... Thought as I read was... Get some yogurt, give s tbld per day but...

Afraid I can't help but some the foods contain probiotics. Recently switched to victor hi pro plus. It comes 40 pound bag, has probiotics in it, 450 calories a cup so a little goes a long way. I get it locally for 40.99 a bag but don't think you could duplicate . But chewy auto ship is be 48.99. I expect 1 bag feeding 80 pound Ami, 52#Z'ev and 66 pound Archer (part-time) to last about 6 weeks or more. May be cheaper for you then plus additives?
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amymeme
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amymeme

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 2:07 pm

Also I didn't find probiotics advertised on the bag or description but thereare several listed in the ingredients.
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 3:26 pm

ARGH!!!!  Looks like I previewed that message and didn't save it!

A link you might find interesting is cal / cup of dog food by brand. Not all inclusive but has a lot.

I have to be picky when it comes to dog food. Avalanche is no problem, he'll eat whatever and as much of it as he feels like (good free feeder); Sky just picks at her food, she isn't losing weight but I'd like to see her eat better; Sasha - nuff said - she'll eat as much of anything as she can get her teeth into - gains weight too easily.

Re: fridge -- do you remember the days of having an icebox that really used ice and going to the general store in town. My "ice" is solar power and since I don't have enough batteries or panels, I'm limited in what I can plug in. My little "office/dorm fridge" is good for eggs, milk, lunch meat, a couple of bottles of water and then I'm about out of room.
General store, our local store (18 miles) has Dog Chow for $33.00 and I can order it from Walmart for $22 - that should give you some idea of his prices, but then he has a relatively captive audience.

I'l have to take a better look at that Victors, Chewy has several different choices ...

_________________
Probiotics & Generic Dog Food GY3Hm5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food REEum5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 11:45 pm

Mishka went to the vet, again, just last week. She had been squirting her poop out for nearly two weeks. My regular vet wasn't there, and his substitute *seemed* to put much more thought into what has been going on with Mishka for the past year and a half. I forget the name of the med she was prescribed, started with a "M" I believe, but I also got a box of the Purina Fortiflora. So far so good on her poop issues. I give the Fortiflora to both dogs and they don't seem to really like it though. They still eat but very very slowly. Both my dogs get the Acana food and daily Greek yogurt so my thoughts are it's possible a decent food that already contains probiotics isn't really enough for dogs with sensitivity issues. Mishka has only been on the Fortiflora for a bit over a week though so I can't say for sure.
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amymeme
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amymeme

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:37 am

Jimmy... Metronidazole?
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:46 am

Yes, Amy, that is the med. (I went to get the bottle to make sure) 500mg, one pill twice a day for 6 days
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TwisterII
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TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:21 pm

Dive into probiotics vs prebiotics vs enzymes and then really scratch your head. Renee @MiyasMomma has done extensive research on them for her GSD and can probably give you a solid breakdown if she gets a chance. Busy week for her I know. TOTW adds probiotics as well but more expensive than Victors. Not sure about 4health but imagine that they add as well.

Pro/Pre/Enzymes

top section of comments are an interesting read. Further down is just stuff and not real information.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/prebiotics-probiotics-and-enzymes-oh-my/

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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:39 pm

@twisterII Oh, thanks a bunch! (Well, seriously, thanks) That first link needs a translator - I speak English, after a fashion, I'm not sure what they're speaking! Technicalese?????

The second one looks interesting, I've waded through the first day of it, but have to get my Jeep into town (oil change, I have to go to Midland next Monday.) I'll definitely be back to read more there. There's a lot of it that seems to be aimed at the "raw" crowd but I also see a lot of general information there as well.

As I said, "Thanks a bunch!" Smile

_________________
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“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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amymeme
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amymeme

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:48 pm

@amymeme wrote:
Jimmy... Metronidazole?

Antibiotic used for anaerobic and protozoal infections. The shelter put Ami on it just before we got him.
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 12:54 am

@amymeme wrote:
@amymeme wrote:
Jimmy... Metronidazole?

Antibiotic used for anaerobic and protozoal infections.  The shelter put Ami on it just before we got him.

Interesting. Thank you for that, Amy.
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 11:59 am

Okay, if @artic_wind and @amymeme are done with their aside - Smile

So let's see if I sorta understand this:
Prebiotics are a foreign 'food' that encourages probiotics to 'flourish.'
Probiotics are a 'foreign' <??> that assists the gut in digesting food.
Enzymes are a natural product of a digestive system that actually perform the digestion assisted by the probiotics (how?)

@twisterII Too small a quantity of probiotics can produce diarrhea and other GI tract problems.
Is it possible to induce too many pre/probiotic 'flora'? And what happens when one does?

So far, so good???

(( foreign as used above means that it's introduced to the system, not naturally produced by it. <?> ))

_________________
Probiotics & Generic Dog Food GY3Hm5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food REEum5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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amymeme
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amymeme

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 1:53 pm

Well here's a kicker. Probiotics may actually retard the return to healthy got biome.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/proof-probiotics-work-study/story?id=57643353
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 2:24 pm

As I read that, it seems as if probiotics only serve in those cases where there has been reduction of gut bacteria and even that necessarily so.  

If you back to the referenced article in Cell it seems as if the post-antibiotic treatment with probiotics was effective shortly after the end of the antibiotic treatment but then leveled off quickly to the norm of the control group, so I'm not too sure how much I'd agree with ABC's headline.




_________________
Probiotics & Generic Dog Food GY3Hm5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food REEum5Probiotics & Generic Dog Food 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Probiotics & Generic Dog Food   Probiotics & Generic Dog Food EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 4:52 pm

The difference is, this study actually used results from endoscopy on the intestines, pulling samples and found from there and found fewer numbers and species of other beneficial bacteria. Certainly this study would need to be repeated before recommendations can be made but one of the comments I find interesting is that even before this study, is, well we don't know if probiotics help but at least they won't hurt.

And then, yesterday, a consumer reports article found that many probiotic supplements don't really contain what the label says, better to get from whole food.
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